United v Barca

[Finnegan]

I think it's just the personel, really. Fez was spot on when he highlighted the midfield and to be fair to Pleat he made a comment yesterday that shocked me in it's non-stupidity. He said you could throw six strikers up front and it wouldn't matter if they don't have the service.

I don't think there's much wrong with playing that three-pronged attack with Ronaldo, Rooney and someone else swapping into wide positions. The system seems quite inspired by Barcelona, actually, and it clearly works for them. The principal difference was that Iniesta and Xavi outgunned everything Man Utd had. And that's what needs to be addressed, they need a midfield.

And it's a little embarassing, really. I mean Chelsea have Ballack, Deco, Essien and Lampard; Liverpool have Gerrard, Mascherano and Xabi Alonso and even Arsenal have Cesc Fabregas, Tomas Rosicky (when fit), Samir Nasri and sort of Arshavin depending on his role. You'd kill for any of them in your side.

What have Man Utd got? Giggs and Scholes are getting old and neither of them are really as dynamic and creative as these other names, they don't have a bulldog ball-winner of Essien or Mascherano's quality. Park, Fletcher and Anderson will run all day but they're not the same calibre and Carrick's level was at Tottenham.

They need a really good, really quality creative midfielder and a really rugged, dogged ball-winner and not another bunch of wingers and forwards.

[Red Leicester]

They need a really good, really quality creative midfielder and a really rugged, dogged ball-winner and not another bunch of whingers

[dandannieldanok]

I think it's just the personel, really. Fez was spot on when he highlighted the midfield and to be fair to Pleat he made a comment yesterday that shocked me in it's non-stupidity. He said you could throw six strikers up front and it wouldn't matter if they don't have the service.

My favourite Pleat comment came when Paul Scholes was coming on: "he should be able to dictate things".

Made me howl with laughter, how on earth is doddering old Paul Scholes going to dictate against Xavi and Iniesta. His reckless yellow card challenge just showed that Scholes is far too old to play at that level.

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

Without knowing the score this morning, I suspected a Barca win due to the lack of triumphant status updates from the hordes of Man Utd fans on Facebook.

[Uncle Albert]

Made me howl with laughter, how on earth is doddering old Paul Scholes going to dictate against Xavi and Iniesta. His reckless yellow card challenge just showed that Scholes is far too old to play at that level.

Exactly, Scholes is that much of a dictater that he couldnt even start over Ryan Giggs a winger in Central midfield. I really thought Anderson was going to have a good game last night, was pretty poor. United really missed Fletcher last night he is the type of player who will do box to box and will go and win the ball for you.

But like Finners said they really need to get a new centre mid. Their midfield has been alright against the weaker teams in the Premier League but United only beat one of the top four teams this season and there midfield in all of the games they lost and drew were out muscled in the centre of the park.

Hargreaves has been missed this year.

[Darkzzz_]

You know what, I share that view. I really believe Hargreaves would have had a much bigger impact on that midfield last night, he isn't everyone's cup of tea but he has such good work rate and he can win possession back for his team.

[Finnegan]

He's no Essien or Mascherano but he's a step in the right direction that's for sure.

[Darkzzz_]

He's no Essien or Mascherano but he's a step in the right direction that's for sure.

These two are amongst the best at what they do, if not the best.

[Mickyblueeyes]

He's being asked to play in positions where he isn't really good at. Puyol who is decent but nothing special had Rooney's number last night. It's just so frustrating to see his talent wasted on right or left wing when he is at his best playing striker or second striker. But Ronaldo scores more goals so he will always be preferred.

I think Puyol's very underated actually.

If you think of the rubbish he's had to play with over the years

i.e

Arbelado

Patrick Anderson

Christanval

Caceres

Bogarde

Francesc Coco

Add to that having keepers like Victor Valdez, Ruud Hesp and Roberto Bonano he's always looked solid both for club and country.

He's helped players like Marquez and Pique to establish themselves as good La Liga defenders.

I cant remember a player having Puyol's number.

He is a moaner but one of the best in defence surely.

[StanSP]

I think Puyol's very underated actually.

If you think of the rubbish he's had to play with over the years

i.e

Arbelado

Patrick Anderson

Christanval

Caceres

Bogarde

Francesc Coco

Add to that having keepers like Victor Valdez, Ruud Hesp and Roberto Bonano he's always looked solid both for club and country.

He's helped players like Marquez and Pique to establish themselves as good La Liga defenders.

I cant remember a player having Puyol's number.

He is a moaner but one of the best in defence surely.

What's wrong with Victor Valdes?

[Darkzzz_]

What's wrong with Victor Valdes?

Everyone knows how shaky Valdes is. I have never had that much faith in him and he is very error prone, however he has held onto that jersey for a long time now. He doesn't get in the Spain squad for a reason...

[Alexikokopops]

What's wrong with Victor Valdes?

He's an absolute liability!

[Fez of Mahrez]

Players like Valdes, Puyol and Abidal haven't got the due respect they deserve for the seasons they've had. Valdes has cut his errors down to a minimal level. Puyol has played all across the back four to help out and actually looked pretty bloody good at left-back when Abidal was out injured. Abidal is far better than people give him credit for. His work overlapping Henry this season has been very important. And Valdes made one superb save last night with Puyol excellent against the second most vibrant attack in the world.

If they were playing in any other team they'd all be seen as real stars but they just get outshone at Barca and if you make one mistake all season, it's always going to be one more than Xavi, Iniesta and Messi combined.

[Alexikokopops]

Players like Valdes, Puyol and Abidal haven't got the due respect they deserve for the seasons they've had. Valdes has cut his errors down to a minimal level. Puyol has played all across the back four to help out and actually looked pretty bloody good at left-back when Abidal was out injured. Abidal is far better than people give him credit for. His work overlapping Henry this season has been very important. And Valdes made one superb save last night with Puyol excellent against the second most vibrant attack in the world.

If they were playing in any other team they'd all be seen as real stars but they just get outshone at Barca and if you make one mistake all season, it's always going to be one more than Xavi, Iniesta and Messi combined.

I'm sorry but I don't think I'll ever be able to view Abidal as anything other than a shambles. He didn't impress me at Lyon and he hasn't done anything to change that since he moved to Barcelona.

Valdes, fair enough. I just love calling him a liability ever since I was in Spain and was with my mate trying to work out what "liability" was in Spanish and mimng Eduardo's injury He's just like David James really. Good keeper but known to make mistakes

[Finnegan]

These two are amongst the best at what they do, if not the best.

Sure. But that's what Manchester United should be able to attract. The best.

[Fez of Mahrez]

I'm sorry but I don't think I'll ever be able to view Abidal as anything other than a shambles. He didn't impress me at Lyon and he hasn't done anything to change that since he moved to Barcelona.

Valdes, fair enough. I just love calling him a liability ever since I was in Spain and was with my mate trying to work out what "liability" was in Spanish and mimng Eduardo's injury He's just like David James really. Good keeper but known to make mistakes

My view of Abidal has changed dramatically over this season. I never saw much of him before relatively speaking so I don't know whether he's always been as good as this season (doubtful) or had a particularly good season (possible) or benefitted from the whole team playing brilliantly (probably the most likely), but he's been great whenever he's played.

I agree before this season I thought he was terrible, particularly for France in major competitions (when you had Evra and Clichy in the same position) wondering how the hell he was in the team.

People like to slag off Dani Alves (overrated? can't defend? bad crosser of the ball? behave!!) and Abidal but they're judging them by the rest of the team's standards instead of comparing them with other players in their positions. Comparing Abidal's workrate and impact on the game at both ends of the pitch with the likes of Evra, Clichy and Ashley Cole - and his ability to switch to centre-back with reasonable effect - he's in a different league (and I don't just mean La Liga). It isn't even worth comparing Dani Alves with anyone in England. The only other players I've seen even vaguely similar to him are Maicon and Cafu. He's just insane.

It's a particular bugbear of mine. Barca have played Bayern Munich, Chelsea and Manchester United over five games and conceded twice. This idea that they are particularly bad at the back is a complete myth. They're no worse than anyone else in the world - even someone like Vidic has the occasional shocker (Torres at Old Trafford, Eto'o in the final being the high-profile examples).

Barca do obviously get caught on the break more than most teams because of the way they keep possession. That might make them look disorganised at the back but counter-attacks are the only way anyone has any shots at the Nou Camp. Barca have two-thirds of the possession and visiting teams never have any concerted periods of pressure on the Barca goal. That's why Valdes has had a good season - because he often gets caught on the end of a three-on-two and has to pull off a reaction save. Whether he'd be any good in England (extremely doubtful) is a moot point because you only ever have to field players to fulfil a certain role in the side. He doesn't generally need to be that commanding in the air.

Just my opinion anyway.

[Bert]

Goes without saying.

They will go down as one of the greatest Spanish sides in history, the first Spanish team to win the treble. Excellent.

Surely they actually are? As the only Spanish team to win the treb?

[Finnegan]

Surely they actually are? As the only Spanish team to win the treb?

Copa del Rey isn't really considered a massively prestigious competition, though. It's often not won by the "big" teams.

I mean take nothing away from the achievement, though. Totally. But it's not quite like doing an trebble over here. I mean the last time Barcelona OR Real Madrid won it before this year was 1998 which generally tells you how much they care about winning it. Over the last decade I think Espanyol and Zaragoza (Spain's equivelant of like, er, Everton and West Ham or something) were the two most succesful sides I can think of.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Surely they actually are? As the only Spanish team to win the treb?

Literally speaking as the only Spanish team to ever win the treble they are the best ever, yep.

Some people might account for things like the Copa del Rey not being held in the same esteem as the FA Cup and the extended period of Real Madrid's dominance in the 50s.

It's impossible to judge these things with the way football has evolved anyway. You watch games from even 20 years ago and it looks like a completely different sport.

[Finnegan]

It's impossible to judge these things with the way football has evolved anyway. You watch games from even 20 years ago and it looks like a completely different sport.

True.

[Bert]

Copa del Rey isn't really considered a massively prestigious competition, though. It's often not won by the "big" teams.

I mean take nothing away from the achievement, though. Totally. But it's not quite like doing an trebble over here. I mean the last time Barcelona OR Real Madrid won it before this year was 1998 which generally tells you how much they care about winning it. Over the last decade I think Espanyol and Zaragoza (Spain's equivelant of like, er, Everton and West Ham or something) were the two most succesful sides I can think of.

Do you think I have no knowledge of football or something?

[Finnegan]

Do you think I have no knowledge of football or something?

I dunno. I don't know what leagues you watch!

I know relatively fuck all about the Bundesliga, for example, which is meant to be a massive league. Other than Bayern and Werder I don't have a clue who's big and who's mid table and who's relegation favourites!

I thought Kaiserslauten were one of the big four clubs! I learned a few months ago they're in the second league!

[Bert]

I dunno. I don't know what leagues you watch!

I know relatively fuck all about the Bundesliga, for example, which is meant to be a massive league. Other than Bayern and Werder I don't have a clue who's big and who's mid table and who's relegation favourites!

I thought Kaiserslauten were one of the big four clubs! I learned a few months ago they're in the second league!

I might not watch much of any other league, but I follow it enough to know what's going on and to be up to date with everything.

[Finnegan]

Fair enough! Wasn't trying to be condescending.

[Mickyblueeyes]

Talking about underated players Samuel Eto'o has to be top of the pile.

The guys goalscoring record is second to none.

He runs himself into the ground both in attack and defence.

2004-05 37 25 1 0 7 4 45 29

2005-06 35 26 2 2 11 6 48 34

2006-07 18 11 4 1 4 1 26 13

2007-08 18 16 3 1 7 1 28 18

2008-09 35 29 4 0 12 6 51 35

Total 143 107 14 4 41 18 198 129

Find me a striker who has consistently performed like that!

With all of those qualities when he had his falling out with Pep not one major club came in for him.Shocking really, but every other teams loss is Barca's gain!