Sink immigrants' boats - Griffin

[ob1kanobe0]

Yeah. Great idea. Let's just burn down the Durex factory and slowly but surely turn the entire country into a holding pen for the Jeremy Kyle show whilst simultaneously deporting them thar immygrunts. Brilliant.

Why is it, that when communistic style thinkers like yourself talk about doing something good that immigrants do, the opposite is always the jeremy kyle types in society. Why not encourage the exceptional medical staff that have been so disgusted with the way things are organised here, to replace our immigrant staff, and/or, get a government capable of training our unemployed?

Is it better to train our unemployed, or hire a doctor from Africa?

[ob1kanobe0]

thats the whole point of my first post... the Uk has literally thousands of nurses and doctors working abroad in countries like Austrailia, New Zealand, USA, and South Africa....

they all left for a better life... we dont have any to replace them with!

there are even websites offering Jobs in Saudi Arabia... Tax free income.., ect, . So many countries want British trained Nurses and Doctors because they realise they get excellent training..

Why don't immigrants here take those jobs? Are all we worth, the cheapest medical staff from third world countries?

[MPH]

Why don't immigrants here take those jobs? Are all we worth, the cheapest medical staff from third world countries?

pretty much, yes.

in the LRI there is such a nursing shortage ( we had 5 nurses cut from our budget in 1 year alone in just our ward ) that the stress on the current nursing staff is intolerable for some. its not uncommon for 1 nurse to have to look after 15 patients here whilst one friend i have who got a Job in Austrailia is working in a hospital where they have a strict limit of 1 Nurse to 5 patients. Better weather she said, better working conditions, better quality of life and the money goes further..

the NHS advertise aggresively in places like the philippines, India, Pakistan and various other places to make up the shortfall. Alot of the nurses coming over are not used to all the trappings and what they would call luxuries that people in the UK would call essential for a good standard of living here and so not only are they living a life they are happy with and are also able to send money home to their parents/ families often the equivalent of a months wage.

The problem, unfortunately, is for whatever reasons ( and its a whole different argument) the NHS faces budget cuts pretty much every year and more is expected of the staff, pressure is put on staff to work longer hours more often and yet they have introduced a system now where there is no incentive to work overtime.... instead of getting paid x1.5 as used to happen for overtime staff are told if they want to work extra hours its only at their normal rate on a 'bank staff' contract. Alot of Nurses are unhappy with that yet nurses from abroad use that to send more money home...

In the time i have worked at the LRI i am absolutely amazed at how badly the nurses are treated.. i dont blame a single Nurse who wants to work overseas...

[Fosse Boy]

Why is it, that when communistic style thinkers like yourself talk about doing something good that immigrants do, the opposite is always the jeremy kyle types in society. Why not encourage the exceptional medical staff that have been so disgusted with the way things are organised here, to replace our immigrant staff, and/or, get a government capable of training our unemployed?

Is it better to train our unemployed, or hire a doctor from Africa?

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

You can be added to my tool list.

[/quote Like I,m so bothered.

Your just so full of crap, my sad little arse wipe.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

To be honest I'd open the floodgates to anyone with consistent spelling.

So, you have good eyesight. Shame you don't have a brain to match though!

[MPH]

So, you have good eyesight. Shame you don't have a brain to match though!

so thats it is it? you lose an argument and the only thing you know how is to result to insults?

[Guest Bilo]

so thats it is it? you lose an argument and the only thing you know how is to result to insults?

Obviously the person who delivers the most insults is the one who wins the argument and such a tactic is in no way idiotic. Don't you watch Prime Minister's Questions?

[Guest]

You don't know how loose then?

I do, but there is no point in arguing the issue with you, as you have already made up your mind, and have already started the Thracianesque tactic of twisting things to put forward points that you feel more comfortable in arguing.

The latter. Immigration (legal or not), how many/what percentage in your mind, is enough? Unlimited?

Can you please make up your mind? Unscrupulous employers or immigration?

Who are you then? Because liberals come out with that view you proudly spoke of.

I'm me. Ok?

ob1 calling Lisa, come in Lisa, ob1 calling Lisa, come in Lisa

Ive no idea what the quoted is about. It is friday tho

You don't know what TMS is? Dear oh dear.....

Your comment on loosening immigration laws is appauling. This really would be a recipe for disaster. As it stands it is far below being even nearly the required amount of strictness.

Perhaps you want to open the floodgates to immegration, and watch this country sink under the weight of illegal immigrants?

The point is, if you made legal immigration easier, then there would be fewer illegal immigrants. To explain, if it was easier to gain entry to the UK to look for and to work, there would be less need to use traffickers, agents and dangerous methods to get in.

The floodgates argument is persuasive if you happen to be of a nervous and panicky disposition, but the fact is, and I have already given one example earlier in this thread, contrary to popular belief it is unlikely that the we would be inundated. As I keep pointing out, immigration controls are a modern phenomenon.

One explanation for his incompetence, I suppose.

Anyway, I've thought about this and I've decided people who speak no English whatsoever that manage to instantly get jobs for shit wages and live in squalor for a while whilst they get settled should be commended.

In the same breath, all the chavvy, Native white British ****s who cannot speak properly, get everything handed to them on a plate and have no intention of ever getting themselves a job should be deported. And vilified. And subject to the abuse they give to immigrants. I know who I'd rather share my country with.

Besides, if you're that fooking unskilled and woefully incapable of speaking your own language that you're losing out to somebody who cannot speak the native tongue, I'd seriously advise you to take a good look at yourself and wonder why you're so fooking retarded/useless/idiotic/pathetic. And then punch yourself extremely hard right between the eyes.

This is what I like about you, no beating around the bush!!

Is it better to train our unemployed, or hire a doctor from Africa?

Do you know what the academic requirements are to study to become a doctor?

[ob1kanobe0]

I do, but there is no point in arguing the issue with you, as you have already made up your mind, and have already started the Thracianesque tactic of twisting things to put forward points that you feel more comfortable in arguing.

Cop out.

Can you please make up your mind? Unscrupulous employers or immigration?

I said the latter.

You don't know what TMS is? Dear oh dear.....

Do you?

The point is, if you made legal immigration easier, then there would be fewer illegal immigrants. To explain, if it was easier to gain entry to the UK to look for and to work, there would be less need to use traffickers, agents and dangerous methods to get in.

The floodgates argument is persuasive if you happen to be of a nervous and panicky disposition, but the fact is, and I have already given one example earlier in this thread, contrary to popular belief it is unlikely that the we would be inundated. As I keep pointing out, immigration controls are a modern phenomenon.

How easier are you talking about?

Do you know what the academic requirements are to study to become a doctor?

Is it better to train our unemployed, or hire a doctor from Africa?

[Guest]

Cop out.

Not at all. I keep repeating myself already.

I said the latter.

Then you banged on about immigration. It's one or the other.

Do you?

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.

How easier are you talking about?

See above.

Is it better to train our unemployed, or hire a doctor from Africa?

Now you really are being silly.

[Webbo]

I love illegal immigration.

This subject is the single most discussed issue in the history of FoxesTalk.

I think it's because the views on both sides are so polarised.

On 1 side you've got people blaming immigration for every ill in this country and saying that it's totally unnecessary. On the other hand you have people saying that all immigrants are totally blameless and essential to the country because all native white people are lazy useless wankers and anyone who disagrees is a racist.

The fact is that there are pluses and minuses to every thing. If we actually debated these things and didn't descend to insults against everybody who disagreed with us we'd generate a bit less heat and a bit more light.

Having said that though it probably wouldn't be as much fun.

[ob1kanobe0]

Not at all. I keep repeating myself already.

what would we do without that emotion.

Then you banged on about immigration. It's one or the other.

I said the latter

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.

And yet you're still not saying what it is.

TMS?

Top men s...ner

The most spe...ner

Take my sausage?

I give in.

See above.

you're having a hard time trying to answer questions you give the impression you have a strong belief in.

Holes in your boat

Now you really are being silly.

Are you saying all our unemployed are untrainable, therefore the only option is to take the best doctors from Africa?, where they're needed more. Then we're asked to aid African's because they havn't got the man power to cope.

[ob1kanobe0]

I think it's because the views on both sides are so polarised.

On 1 side you've got people blaming immigration for every ill in this country and saying that it's totally unnecessary. On the other hand you have people saying that all immigrants are totally blameless and essential to the country because all native white people are lazy useless wankers and anyone who disagrees is a racist.

The fact is that there are pluses and minuses to every thing. If we actually debated these things and didn't descend to insults against everybody who disagreed with us we'd generate a bit less heat and a bit more light.

Having said that though it probably wouldn't be as much fun.

Well said, not the fun bit

[lou]

what would we do without that emotion.

I said the latter

And yet you're still not saying what it is.

TMS?

Top men s...ner

The most spe...ner

Take my sausage?

I give in.

you're having a hard time trying to answer questions you give the impression you have a strong belief in.

Holes in your boat

Are you saying all our unemployed are untrainable, therefore the only option is to take the best doctors from Africa?, where they're needed more. Then we're asked to aid African's because they havn't got the man power to cope.

Not sure how many years it takes to train a Doctor but Id imagine its a good 5-6? Probably not a great deal of "indigenous" Brits on the dole who are capable of qualifying as a Doc and they are more than welcome to do that now... no ones stopping them as far I know? What do we do for doctors in the meantime while we chuck out the African doctors and train up the local hoodies to treat us?

[Guest]

what would we do without that emotion.

I said the latter

You have totally misunderstood this. It's "our" fault because of economics, pure and simple. "We" want everything cheaper all the time, and some employers will cut costs by illegally employing people below minimum wage to maximise their profit margin.

the only way its our fault, is that we either didn't vote for someone to stop it, or that we don't demand it be stopped. Ive done both, so don't blame me. What are you going to do about it?

Stop what? Immigration or unscrupulous employers?

The latter. Immigration (legal or not), how many/what percentage in your mind, is enough? Unlimited?

So you see, you said the latter, then started banging on about immigration. So did you really mean the former, or are you interested in stopping illegal employment? Or is it really both?

And yet you're still not saying what it is.

TMS?

Top men s...ner

The most spe...ner

Take my sausage?

I give in.

Good.

you're having a hard time trying to answer questions you give the impression you have a strong belief in.

Holes in your boat

If that's what you want to believe, then do so.

Are you saying all our unemployed are untrainable, therefore the only option is to take the best doctors from Africa?, where they're needed more. Then we're asked to aid African's because they havn't got the man power to cope.

Why don't you Google the requirements for what is needed to train to be a doctor? Then Google the cost to the taxpayer of training doctors.

We, the taxpayer, have paid for doctors to be trained only for them to leave the UK. Given the choice between a fully qualified doctor, albeit one who trained abroad, and ensuring that our unemployed are educated enough to even start the undergraduate degree, and given the cost of then putting them through med school, coupled with the time taken before they are qualified as a doctor, surely the prudent and sensible option is to employ the fully trained medic.

On top of that, we all know how much doctors earn, yet relatively few people choose to work in that profession. Do you really believe that it's right to force people to take on a career that they really do not want to do? It's not like making people sit in an office in front of a computer, or making people paint fences, or clean the streets, something I do think the long term unemployed could be doing.

Not sure how many years it takes to train a Doctor but Id imagine its a good 5-6? Probably not a great deal of "indigenous" Brits on the dole who are capable of qualifying as a Doc and they are more than welcome to do that now... no ones stopping them as far I know? What do we do for doctors in the meantime while we chuck out the African doctors and train up the local hoodies to treat us?

Exactly.

[ob1kanobe0]

Not sure how many years it takes to train a Doctor but Id imagine its a good 5-6? Probably not a great deal of "indigenous" Brits on the dole who are capable of qualifying as a Doc and they are more than welcome to do that now... no ones stopping them as far I know? What do we do for doctors in the meantime while we chuck out the African doctors and train up the local hoodies to treat us?

How would you know if the indigenous or immigrant dole bluggers couldn't become NSH staff? I'd answer you last point if it wasn't so insultingly abusive. I guess we know you're in favour of limiting the African people's ability to survive by taking their best medical staff.

Take their best doctors and nurses = give aid

[Guest]

How would you know if the indigenous or immigrant dole bluggers couldn't become NSH staff? I'd answer you last point if it wasn't so insultingly abusive. I guess we know you're in favour of limiting the African people's ability to survive by taking their best medical staff.

Take their best doctors and nurses = give aid

Alternatively, they benefit from the experience, and return home to treat people more effectively.

[lou]

How would you know if the indigenous or immigrant dole bluggers couldn't become NSH staff? I'd answer you last point if it wasn't so insultingly abusive. I guess we know you're in favour of limiting the African people's ability to survive by taking their best medical staff.

Take their best doctors and nurses = give aid

Please tell me whats stopping anyone from this country whos on the dole currently from training to be a Doctor?

[ob1kanobe0]

So you see, you said the latter, then started banging on about immigration. So did you really mean the former, or are you interested in stopping illegal employment? Or is it really both?

It seems i gave you too much credit, i said the latter, i meant the latter, but i asked for a side order.

Both for now, then when we don't have unemployment/can't get work out of the unemployed leftover, allow immigration to fill vacant jobs with a long term future. That said, i think England should be reduced to 40million.

We, the taxpayer, have paid for doctors to be trained only for them to leave the UK. Given the choice between a fully qualified doctor, albeit one who trained abroad, and ensuring that our unemployed are educated enough to even start the undergraduate degree, and given the cost of then putting them through med school, coupled with the time taken before they are qualified as a doctor, surely the prudent and sensible option is to employ the fully trained medic.

So, better to pay someone £150? a week in benefit and take similar in tax from a foreigner?

Or, invest in a claiment, and reap the rewards via future tax and a better standard of living in society?

Its really a case of British V Foreign. Who's side is the government on? British jobs for british workers X

On top of that, we all know how much doctors earn, yet relatively few people choose to work in that profession. Do you really believe that it's right to force people to take on a career that they really do not want to do? It's not like making people sit in an office in front of a computer, or making people paint fences, or clean the streets, something I do think the long term unemployed could be doing.

She of little faith. Probably explains the communistic way you think. Keep the faith

Alternatively, they benefit from the experience, and return home to treat people more effectively.

So you want immigrants to go home now, go back to where you come from?

[Guest]

It seems i gave you too much credit, i said the latter, i meant the latter, but i asked for a side order.

Both for now, then when we don't have unemployment/can't get work out of the unemployed leftover, allow immigration to fill vacant jobs with a long term future. That said, i think England should be reduced to 40million.

The immigration issue is becoming circular, and I don't see the point in going over the same points over and over again.

The answer to the first part is that I am hoping to work in criminal law, therefore I would hope to be in a position to prosecute those employers caught breaking the law.

If you think that we will ever have a situation where there is no unemployment, then you are very naive.

Do you not think that employers ought to have the right to select the best candidate for the job?

So, better to pay someone £150? a week in benefit and take similar in tax from a foreigner?

Or, invest in a claiment, and reap the rewards via future tax and a better standard of living in society?

Its really a case of British V Foreign. Who's side is the government on? British jobs for british workers X

Good-oh. If so many people wanted the money and lifestyle of being a doctor, why do so many prefer to be unemployed?

Do you have a problem with Britons who work abroad?

She of little faith. Probably explains the communistic way you think. Keep the faith

Do you know what communism is?

So you want immigrants to go home now, go back to where you come from?

I don't care what the immigrants want. It's usually their choice to return home.

Where do I come from? Now that is an interesting question......

[ob1kanobe0]

The answer to the first part is that I am hoping to work in criminal law, therefore I would hope to be in a position to prosecute those employers caught breaking the law.

The very best of luck! I hope you catch every one of them and have them punished with a fine. Then what will happen to the illegal workers, go home, scrounge, commit crime, none of that, amnesty dole bluggers to begin with.

Better they carried on working ilegally?

If you think that we will ever have a situation where there is no unemployment, then you are very naive.

I didn't say that, nor assume it with the current mob incharge, but it has to be the aim, no matter how unlikely it seems today. City probably wont win the champo, but its still the aim.

Do you not think that employers ought to have the right to select the best candidate for the job?

Always.

Good-oh. If so many people wanted the money and lifestyle of being a doctor, why do so many prefer to be unemployed?

Prefer, as opposed to not being given the chance. Old Labour used to be for the working man.

Do you have a problem with Britons who work abroad?

No. Do you?

Do you know what communism is?

Initially, an opposition concept for the excuse to fight wars. Taken on by alot of people to mean something very different since.

I don't care what the immigrants want. It's usually their choice to return home.

How does it benefit us if they go home, does that mean we've got to train someone to take their place, or worse still, bring in another foreigner to take their place.

In football terms, its like bringing in a loan player instead of a commited signing.

[coale39]

The aim should not be for zero unemployment, just low unemployment. You will always have people out of work. Having an aim you will never achieve is pointless.

[Guest]

The very best of luck! I hope you catch every one of them and have them punished with a fine. Then what will happen to the illegal workers, go home, scrounge, commit crime, none of that, amnesty dole bluggers to begin with.

Silly answer, not worth a response.

Better they carried on working ilegally?

Why?

I didn't say that, nor assume it with the current mob incharge, but it has to be the aim, no matter how unlikely it seems today. City probably wont win the champo, but its still the aim.

I prefer more realistic goals.

Always.

So therefore, if the employer has the right to choose a better candidate, he can employ who he wants, and if that candidate hails from overseas, fair enough.

Prefer, as opposed to not being given the chance. Old Labour used to be for the working man.

I didn't realise that the working man could only be British.

No. Do you?

Of course not. That's why I'm not a hypocrite.

Initially, an opposition concept for the excuse to fight wars. Taken on by alot of people to mean something very different since.

You need a new dictionary or encyclopedia then.

How does it benefit us if they go home, does that mean we've got to train someone to take their place, or worse still, bring in another foreigner to take their place.

In football terms, its like bringing in a loan player instead of a commited signing.

So you don't agree with loan players? You can't see the benefits that they offer?

Does a job have to be for life? If you leave the UK to work abroad, does this mean you cannot return?

[Webbo]

It was the case a few years ago that there were always more applications for studying medicine than there was places to study. The problem with medical students is that they have to spend time learning their job in hospital working as interns and there are only so many places available in the NHS.

I'm not sure if that is still the case now.