Uncle Albert Posted 19 November 2009 Author Posted 19 November 2009 I would care personally, to me there just wouldn't be any satisfaction from winning by cheating. Its like down at Leicester matches, I find it embarrassing that everyone will cheer Steve Howard when he dives over to win a freekick. The World Cup is so much bigger though, when do World Cup come around? Every four years and if we do well in it and we get that little bit of luck that we deserve and comes through a decision that shouldnt go our way then I am going to cheer and celebrate like I would if Rooney scored a worldie. Remember England's qualifying campaign for 2002, a certain David Beckham scores a worldie of a free kick? Well you re-watch the footage and thats never a free kick, Beckham makes it look a foul, so he possibly cheated for that. Yet, we all celebrated like madheads because of that goal and it took us to Japan and Korea.
Radovan's Caravan Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 I'm aware they didn't enter until 1950 I was emphasising a point. And if you want to be pedantic, 1986 and no.3 are the same thing so you're referring to it twice?I'm not sure what point your trying to make, you've named a number of situations where we've been ****ed over (and I can think of a number more) and justified it by saying a quality would of recovered it, that's not really relevant, the fact of the matter is recoverable or not we didn't get the luck/ref's decision. You've then stated that being on the receiving end of the biggest display of deliberate pre meditated cheating at a world cup finals has been balanced out by the fact that we were awarded goal in 66 that has had its legitimacy scientifically proven. Par for the course Righty-o. What I am saying is that England have not been particularly unlucky in World Cup Finals. If you want to hear about bad luck in World Cup finals talk to the Dutch. They were the victims of West German orchestrated dirty tricks in '74 and denied again in '78 by the greatest match fixing scandal in World Cup history. Or you may want to talk to the Magyars about '54 where the entire tournament was rigged to stop them winning it. If you read my post instead of scanning it you would realise why I refer to 1986 twice - read it again S L O W L Y Whether (or not) the ball actually crossed the line IN FLIGHT in '66 is immaterial - you were damn lucky to get the decision as it was physically impossible to determine that it did (especially when you consider that the ball actually landed flush on the line). Of course any underhand act againt INGERLAND has to be the biggest display of premeditated cheating. Let me remind you that for 80 minutes of that game England hardly mounted an attack and persistently fouled Maradona. It's also worth remembering that Shilton was severely criticised by your own pundits for his hesitancy in collecting the loose ball that led to the handball. I recollect Malcolm Allison saying that Shilton seemed petrified of Maradona and that he should have 'clattered him.' Basically Shilton brought it on himself by bottling the challenge. And now I am going to be pedantic. Your use of a conditional/possessive (could/would OF) instead of the conditional perfect (could/would HAVE) makes you look like a disabled. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your 'your' and assume it's a typo.
Fosse Boy Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 It was a joke because you seem to have a fascination with German football but thats a different debate for a different day. I like it how you didnt respond to anything else I said, maybe thats because you can't answer as you know I am right. Thanks Foxy. Except I don't. I didn't respond to anything else you said? Erm, apart from... Not in my eyes he wouldn't be. You can't have any pride in a team that's cheated their way to victory. If Doyle did say that then it's a real shame. I wouldn't have been. I can't stand cheats, I'm sorry. Not really. I couldn't be proud of a team who'd cheated their way to win the World Cup. .I'll hold my hands up and say I did because I was only a kid then and I thought that beating Argentina at any cost was the most important thing at that time. But if your team has to cheat to win it doesn't feel like a "good" victory if you get what I mean. You can't celebrate it like you could celebrate a fairly won victory. Or maybe that's just me...
lcfc_jme Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 All the talk of having a replay is a non-starter; it should not and will not happen. Fifa though really do need to learn some lessons from this and ask themselves some questions. I'd like to see some form of punishment fall somewhere - referee, linesman or Henry, because cheating, especially in a game of that magnitude, cannot be seen to be accepted. As has been suggested, if things happened the other way round and Ireland had "scored" such a blatantly illegal goal knocking a "big-gun" out of the World-Cup, there'd be heavy sanctions and a probably replay. It's bullsh!t.
Uncle Albert Posted 19 November 2009 Author Posted 19 November 2009 Except I don't.I didn't respond to anything else you said? Erm, apart from... Yeah ok you dont like cheats, yet you said you cheered when Owen dived for a penalty against Argentina 7 years ago. Good one.
dandannieldanok Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 The World Cup is so much bigger though, when do World Cup come around? Every four years and if we do well in it and we get that little bit of luck that we deserve and comes through a decision that shouldnt go our way then I am going to cheer and celebrate like I would if Rooney scored a worldie. Remember England's qualifying campaign for 2002, a certain David Beckham scores a worldie of a free kick? Well you re-watch the footage and thats never a free kick, Beckham makes it look a foul, so he possibly cheated for that. Yet, we all celebrated like madheads because of that goal and it took us to Japan and Korea. I see your point and it's most probably the best way to look at it, I think for me anyway it depends how blatant the cheating is. I know cheating is cheating but you know what I mean. I'd celebrate but if we ever won with cheating as blatant as Henry's or Maradona's it would really take the shine off the win for me.
Fosse Boy Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 Yeah ok you dont like cheats, yet you said you cheered when Owen dived for a penalty against Argentina 7 years ago. Good one. No I didn't. I said I cheered when Beckham scored the penalty. Since 2002 I've grown up (a bit) and realised that in retrospect Owen was awarded the penalty because he cheated. I guess that at the time I was probably just all caught up in the whole jingoistic "England v the Argies" type media hype that surrounded the match and wanted England to win at all costs. Doesn't mean I can't look back on it in 2009 and say that I now realise it was wrong.
Uncle Albert Posted 19 November 2009 Author Posted 19 November 2009 No I didn't. I said I cheered when Beckham scored the penalty. Since 2002 I've grown up (a bit) and realised that in retrospect Owen was awarded the penalty because he cheated.I guess that at the time I was probably just all caught up in the whole jingoistic "England v the Argies" type media hype that surrounded the match and wanted England to win at all costs. Doesn't mean I can't look back on it in 2009 and say that I now realise it was wrong. Yes but Owen diving lead to the penalty, therefore you celebrated and we cheated to win that match, you cheered but now you have "grown up" (god knows what you were like in 2002 then) thats alright, cheating is now bad and England shouldnt celebrate because of this, oh right.
Fosse Boy Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 Yes but Owen diving lead to the penalty, therefore you celebrated and we cheated to win that match, you cheered but now you have "grown up" (god knows what you were like in 2002 then) thats alright, cheating is now bad and England shouldnt celebrate because of this, oh right. No. I've always known cheating is wrong, and have always hated cheats. As I explained I was 12 years old and in that specific match (what with the memories of 1998 and all that) I wanted England to win and at the time didn't care about the fact that Owen had cheated to do so. After the heat of the moment it felt like such a hollow victory because of the way the game was won though.
Uncle Albert Posted 19 November 2009 Author Posted 19 November 2009 No. I've always known cheating is wrong, and have always hated cheats. As I explained I was 12 years old and in that specific match (what with the memories of 1998 and all that) I wanted England to win and at the time didn't care about the fact that Owen had cheated to do so. After the heat of the moment it felt like such a hollow victory because of the way the game was won though. Oh god, what a melt you are.
Finnegan Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 And now I am going to be pedantic. Your use of a conditional/possessive (could/would OF) instead of the conditional perfect (could/would HAVE) makes you look like a disabled. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your 'your' and assume it's a typo. It's a well established fact that Manwell can't spell for shit and is probably dyslexic. It's also a well established fact that the boy is a walking sporting database, if you've got to resort to picking apart his grammar to try and beat him in an argument then you're getting somewhat desperate.
LCFC-ARAB Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 just to take the thread back a few pages... ALGERIA ARE IN THE FUCKING WORLD CUP!!!!!! 1 2 3 VIVA L'ALGERIE!!!!!
Fosse Boy Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 Oh god, what a melt you are. Great response.
Uncle Albert Posted 19 November 2009 Author Posted 19 November 2009 Great response. Well when you keep posting the same boring rubbish then.. "Cheating is wrong, I hate cheaters". You sound like one of these geeks..
Finnegan Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 Well when you keep posting the same boring rubbish then.. "Cheating is wrong, I hate cheaters".You sound like one of these geeks.. while I don't disagree with you, you really are a complete wand sometimes.
Fosse Boy Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 Well when you keep posting the same boring rubbish then.. "Cheating is wrong, I hate cheaters".You sound like one of these geeks.. Put me on ignore then.
Uncle Albert Posted 19 November 2009 Author Posted 19 November 2009 Put me on ignore then. No then I cant take the piss out of your stupid posts, come on have a think.
Fosse Boy Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 No then I cant take the piss out of your stupid posts, come on have a think. Good for you chap. Have fun with that.
hairy Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 The French won the game, end of. Henry cheated and got away with it, end of. Difference is he admitted it. Well done to him for having the balls. Savage used to cheat all the time and I used to laugh and cheer when he did. Marshall cheated in Madrid pushing the defender out the way before he scored. I cheered and shouted like a tramp that night. Sinclair cheated when pushing Schmeichel into the back of the Villa goal before the ball came in. I still laugh about that today. I could go on.... Yes its 'not fair' but the ref did his best and decisions like that could go to either side.
Budweiser Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 The French won the game, end of. Henry cheated and got away with it, end of. Difference is he admitted it. Well done to him for having the balls.Savage used to cheat all the time and I used to laugh and cheer when he did. Marshall cheated in Madrid pushing the defender out the way before he scored. I cheered and shouted like a tramp that night. Sinclair cheated when pushing Schmeichel into the back of the Villa goal before the ball came in. I still laugh about that today. I could go on.... Yes its 'not fair' but the ref did his best and decisions like that could go to either side. Well he can hardly deny he handballed it? It doesn't take balls for him to say that.
hairy Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 Well he can hardly deny he handballed it? It doesn't take balls for him to say that. I think it takes balls for him to openly admit it. Others never have done such as Maradona.
dandannieldanok Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 I think it takes balls for him to openly admit it. Others never have done such as Maradona. It's completely hollow though, I'm sure the Irish players couldn't give two shiny shites whether he's admitted after the event. It takes balls to admit you cheated when you could still affect the outcome of the game, not when your plane tickets are booked and confirmed.
Samilktray Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 I still dont understand what people expected him to do? I dont think he had much time to think about it, I doubt he could of moved his hand away if he wanted. Some people are fucking daft for getting on there high horses over this.
hairy Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 It's completely hollow though, I'm sure the Irish players couldn't give two shiny shites whether he's admitted after the event. It takes balls to admit you cheated when you could still affect the outcome of the game, not when your plane tickets are booked and confirmed. he claims he told the ref that he hand balled it which would suggest he tried to affect the outcome of the game.
Edmund Posted 19 November 2009 Posted 19 November 2009 I dont think he had much time to think about it, I doubt he could of moved his hand away if he wanted. My initial reaction when I saw it was accidental. It was just the second touch of the hand which makes it look dubious. I still think it was a natural reaction after the first hit just to keep it in. Like milkman says it happened so quickly there's not a chance in hell he planned that. Henry cheated but not purposely. This isn't even on the same scale of Ronaldo's antics with Rooney last time around. Now that is planned cheating.
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