Uncle Tom Cobbler

[Kitchandro]

Our position last year, last month or last week is irrelevant. If our manager can improve our squd he always should. Such is football.

I agree, I just really don't think this is the way to do it. Beckham would be a short term signing and I think it would disrupt the bandwagon we've got going at the moment.

[maccfox]

So has Tom cobbler signed yet? is he playing saturday??

[The Doctor]

i don't see how people can be so dim about the big name signings.

They're a big name for a reason, they are very good and despite what people seem to think, players aren't over the hill once they get past 30. The likes of beckham, santa cruz, keane would be an improvement on what we have, could still hack it in the top flight and would make short work of any team in this league.

I don't normally do this but i'm going to agree with hackney here, few of our current squad are good enough for the prem (king, the loanees, vassell, yuki and waghorn imo although waghorn wouldn't be for another season or 2) and some of them aren't even good enough for this league (logan, neilson, lamey, verma etc.).

We might as well strengthen in jan rather than leaving it buying nearly a whole new squad is the summer.

[Haydos]

Right, everyone seems to be using the phrase 'big name' for different things. Personally i think it should be synonymous with 'big talent' but a lot of you are assuming '36 year old ex international' (Ironically i think beckham still has a lot to offer, playing for milan until recently highlights this).

With regards to the raising the profile of the club argument, it does't necessarily have to be an exclusive thing. It's not like kitchandro seems to be saying where its either build for the future or try and bring in massive coups. If we had have brought someone like beckham in, it is the kind of thing that can be a stepping stone to attracting more perms for the future anyway....

[hackneyfox]

Err what happened there, I was in the middle of answering kitandpros rants and they disappeared?

[Bettsj2]

No it's you who needs to grow up, it aint all about having big names, which is how some people see it.

It's about being successful. Beckham is past it. Comparing Abe, Naughton, Davies and Vassell to Beckham is fooking ridiculous. They aren't big names compared to Beckham.

It's not nonsense, if Beckham was having my place in the team because the owners wanted a big name I'd be pissed off. You think Beckham would be benched if he didn't play well? Get real

How naive you are.

I feel sorry for you.

[Haydos]

Get this better!

Bringing in coups like Beckham or Keane or Santa Cruz can HELP the club in many other ways, ie. raising the profile and attractiveness to other players.

It's not fooking do or die. What don't you get about that?

[Bettsj2]

How do you know that? Which players that played the second half against Doncaster aren't good enough?

The players that played the second half against Doncaster that wouldnt be good enough for the Premiership are: -

Weale

Wellens

Dyer

Gallagher

Waghorn

Oakley

Take those out and replace them with massive, expensive, big name players of proven quality and we'll be unstoppable.

No time for sentiment.

[Finnegan]

No it's you who needs to grow up, it aint all about having big names, which is how some people see it.

It's about being successful. Beckham is past it. Comparing Abe, Naughton, Davies and Vassell to Beckham is fooking ridiculous. They aren't big names compared to Beckham.

It's not nonsense, if Beckham was having my place in the team because the owners wanted a big name I'd be pissed off. You think Beckham would be benched if he didn't play well? Get real

I agree, I just really don't think this is the way to do it. Beckham would be a short term signing and I think it would disrupt the bandwagon we've got going at the moment.

I don't really like persisting with using David Beckham as our example because he clearly isn't signing. But at the same time he is a fantastic example of my point and a fantastic example of where you're getting this all wrong, to be perfectly honest. Your valuation of some players is completely ridiculous.

I'm almost getting bored of repeating myself here. And I'd feel somewhat self-conscious about it if I wasn't making such a bullet-proof point. You're talking about a player who was a valued member of AC MILAN's squad last season (and the season before.) A player who would have been part of England's World Cup squad had his chances (and his season with Milan) not been cut short by an unfortunate injury.

There has been no indication, in watching Beckham play, that he has lost any of his touch, his vision or his ability to strike a ball - the crux of his game. He has likely lost a yard and the ability to play for ninety minutes in every game but he has never been a mobile footballer, on the contrary he has spent most of his career as something of an oddity - a stationary platform, firing pin-point passes beautifully about the field. I've never, ever been a fan - I've spent most of his playing career calling him over hyped and over rated (Welsh bitterness, you see.)

But to suggest he isn't good enough for us is nothing short of moronic. And I definitely don't feel a need to defend attempts to sign Roque Santa Cruz and Robbie Keane who are undoubtedly top, Premiership players who have simply missed out by being stuck at clubs who have simply out-grown them by reaching Champions League calibre. In fact, none of the players we've been linked to since Top has emerged have been Hasselbainks, Fowlers or Davids - crocked and inarguably faulty (except, possibly, Ljungberg whom Sven has not admitted to and whom is likely just lazy journalism.)

You need to have faith in Sven, we've no reason to believe he'd be bullied in to playing some useless, over-the-hill hack for the sakes of Top's pockets. And you also need to have faith in the players we currently have; they're all professionals. They all know the risks of football and I doubt they'd start throwing their toys out of their prams if they lost their place in the side to someone who has an obvious pedigree that outshines them.

[Haydos]

But at the same time he is a fantastic example of my point and a fantastic example of where you're getting this all wrong, to be perfectly honest.

Pretty much what I was getting at but couldn't be bothered to type

[Zingari]

So has Tom cobbler signed yet? is he playing saturday??

decided to go to Widdecombe , fair enough

[Bettsj2]

I don't really like persisting with using David Beckham as our example because he clearly isn't signing. But at the same time he is a fantastic example of my point and a fantastic example of where you're getting this all wrong, to be perfectly honest. Your valuation of some players is completely ridiculous.

I'm almost getting bored of repeating myself here. And I'd feel somewhat self-conscious about it if I wasn't making such a bullet-proof point. You're talking about a player who was a valued member of AC MILAN's squad last season (and the season before.) A player who would have been part of England's World Cup squad had his chances (and his season with Milan) not been cut short by an unfortunate injury.

There has been no indication, in watching Beckham play, that he has lost any of his touch, his vision or his ability to strike a ball - the crux of his game. He has likely lost a yard and the ability to play for ninety minutes in every game but he has never been a mobile footballer, on the contrary he has spent most of his career as something of an oddity - a stationary platform, firing pin-point passes beautifully about the field. I've never, ever been a fan - I've spent most of his playing career calling him over hyped and over rated (Welsh bitterness, you see.)

But to suggest he isn't good enough for us is nothing short of moronic. And I definitely don't feel a need to defend attempts to sign Roque Santa Cruz and Robbie Keane who are undoubtedly top, Premiership players who have simply missed out by being stuck at clubs who have simply out-grown them by reaching Champions League calibre. In fact, none of the players we've been linked to since Top has emerged have been Hasselbainks, Fowlers or Davids - crocked and inarguably faulty (except, possibly, Ljungberg whom Sven has not admitted to and whom is likely just lazy journalism.)

You need to have faith in Sven, we've no reason to believe he'd be bullied in to playing some useless, over-the-hill hack for the sakes of Top's pockets. And you also need to have faith in the players we currently have; they're all professionals. They all know the risks of football and I doubt they'd start throwing their toys out of their prams if they lost their place in the side to someone who has an obvious pedigree that outshines them.

You are so the man.

It's odd that some people are getting a bit 'anti-Top'. As fans you dont HAVE to dislike your owner.

[Salieri]

Age or profile is not really that important, all that matters is if the player is an improvement on what we already have.

I'm not a fan of signing a 'big name' for the sake of potentially raising revenue, the case of Beckham is different in that he would tick all the boxes including the one about being better than what we have.

We may have finished high up last season but that side would have been slaughtered in the Prem without serious investment which I doubt very much MM would or could have provided.

We should be aiming high now that we have the investment and any permanent signings have to be ones who will be good enough next season if and when we make the step up.

[rams r4 sh*ggin]

As interesting and time consuming it is reading the too and throwin of peoples arguements. In all of this its really irrelevant as too what we personally think. sven is going to bring in players for the good of the team, if its a big name then so be it. Something everyone is missing is sven has a reputation, that is of success. Why tarnish it and add a failure to his cv? so far he has made great improvements since arriving and it shows how serious he is about the task in hand. some say the likes of naughton, davies arnt big names, bet you many teams in the championship would disagree and gladly snap your hand off for them. Fact is they are big names for this division.

On the beckham front. Say we did loan him in, I dont see it as sven allowing publicity stunt. Maybe with all the wasted free kicks and corners he sees becks as an added weapon. Ask yourself this.......would top allow the team to fail to reach the prem for the sake of a few mil publicity stunt?

Anyways wether people agree or disagree we all have different views on players and the way the club should be run. Judge on what has been achieved so far before judging about the future!!!

[Mack]

As interesting and time consuming it is reading the too and throwin of peoples arguements. In all of this its really irrelevant as too what we personally think. sven is going to bring in players for the good of the team, if its a big name then so be it. Something everyone is missing is sven has a reputation, that is of success. Why tarnish it and add a failure to his cv? so far he has made great improvements since arriving and it shows how serious he is about the task in hand. some say the likes of naughton, davies arnt big names, bet you many teams in the championship would disagree and gladly snap your hand off for them. Fact is they are big names for this division.

On the beckham front. Say we did loan him in, I dont see it as sven allowing publicity stunt. Maybe with all the wasted free kicks and corners he sees becks as an added weapon. Ask yourself this.......would top allow the team to fail to reach the prem for the sake of a few mil publicity stunt?

Anyways wether people agree or disagree we all have different views on players and the way the club should be run. Judge on what has been achieved so far before judging about the future!!!

For the new owners this whole venture is a publicity stunt, hence Sven, the impatience to get to the big time and the hunger for a side show in some famous has been.

Personally I dont really mind as long as we profit as a club long term from the association, but please, lets not think the Thais are here for the good of LCFC.

And there is a very real risk in this entire venture.

[Finnegan]

I don't think publicity stunt is correct, Mack.

We haven't been bought out by Paris Hilton, it's a fairly anonymous Asian consortium that even kept the extent of their membership under wraps until the very last minute.

It's about making money and raising the profile may be a part of that but bringing in Sven and demanding Premiership football with an air of impatience isn't about attention and getting collumn inches, it's just about getting where the money is as soon as possible. They're businessmen, not sportsmen and not celebrities.

[rams r4 sh*ggin]

For the new owners this whole venture is a publicity stunt, hence Sven, the impatience to get to the big time and the hunger for a side show in some famous has been.

Personally I dont really mind as long as we profit as a club long term from the association, but please, lets not think the Thais are here for the good of LCFC.

And there is a very real risk in this entire venture.

like i said we all agree and disagree but as a business man payin a reputed £40 mil then a further £10 mil in january, a return of £90 mil for promo and the value of the club rising stands to big of a bigger gain than a 1man big name signing publicity.

On the sven front, why cant city have a big name manager? whats wrong in that? to me it shows a determination and a desire for the club to succeed. I for 1 feel much more proud of our club and where we are going than when we had an owner who didnt really have the desire. We maybe in the championship but that doesnt stop you from having the best that you can possibly bring in. Look at fulham all those years ago! they brought in keegan and they are now prem.

At the end of the day the club is going in the right direction for once and aslong as we get to where we want to be league wise and financially then for fook sake support the owner, the manager, the players and who ever else comes into our great club. Leave the negative moaning to the RL morons!

[Bettsj2]

like i said we all agree and disagree but as a business man payin a reputed £40 mil then a further £10 mil in january, a return of £90 mil for promo and the value of the club rising stands to big of a bigger gain than a 1man big name signing publicity.

On the sven front, why cant city have a big name manager? whats wrong in that? to me it shows a determination and a desire for the club to succeed. I for 1 feel much more proud of our club and where we are going than when we had an owner who didnt really have the desire. We maybe in the championship but that doesnt stop you from having the best that you can possibly bring in. Look at fulham all those years ago! they brought in keegan and they are now prem.

At the end of the day the club is going in the right direction for once and aslong as we get to where we want to be league wise and financially then for fook sake support the owner, the manager, the players and who ever else comes into our great club. Leave the negative moaning to the RL morons!

:sge: :sge: :sge: :sge: :sge:

[Thracian]

Right so they were recently good enough for Milan, Villareal and Man City / Blackburn but they would flop here?

Give over. And Thracian, Sven didn't turn them down it was visa versa, and are we shocked?

I hated it when we brought in knackered old cripples like Horsefield. But Becks? I'm Welsh and even I think he's still top flight quality. Judge a player's merits, not his age, be he 16 or 32.

My post had nothing to do with Becks as such. It was to do with your reaction to anyone who disagrees with you.

I've twice read that Beckham's not interested in coming here so have not really reflected on how good he might be for us or otherwise.

I've always tried to judge a player on his merits - Tom Finney was a good player to a ripe old age - but, while you think about Horsfield, I think about Fowler and Davids...genuinely expensive superstars but whose batteries were running flat for one reason or another when we made contact.

People say you're buying quality when you buy superstars but you're actually buying well-worn quality and potential headaches, rather like buying a much used top-of-the-range car. So often It depends when you buy em, not what you buy. George Best was once the definition of quality as a footballer - but he became a pale shadow of himself by the time he was turning up at places like Bournemouth.

I'm not saying those we've been associated with are anything like Best either. Just that such signings are so often a disappointment because the players no longer have the mental or physical capabilities that made them so brilliant.

So often they turn out to be more a gimmick or a publicity stunt than anything special on the football field. A statement of intent to some extent but mostly about perception and window dressing rather than substance.

[Finnegan]

I disagree with none of that. I'm purely pointing out that most of the high profile names we have been linked to lately are so blatantly 'above' us that you'd have to be a simp to think they'd not improve us.

If you think Robbie Keane, for example, would be shit at this level it's not just my opinion you're disagreeing with but all sense and reason.

[Thracian]

I disagree with none of that. I'm purely pointing out that most of the high profile names we have been linked to lately are so blatantly 'above' us that you'd have to be a simp to think they'd not improve us.

If you think Robbie Keane, for example, would be shit at this level it's not just my opinion you're disagreeing with but all sense and reason.

I'd have no problem with Robbie Keane coming here. I'm not against the principle of signing top stars or the best you can afford, providing they're keen to make a contribution and are in a proper state of mind and body to do so.

[Finnegan]

:kiss:

[STUHILL]

I think it is too easy to stereotype any ex prem star over 30 as being past it and unable to compete at this level any more. I think every player in this category should be looked at individually. I'm sure Sven feels pressure to buy this BIG name player for the Thai's but I'm even more sure that he doesn't want to waste this opportunity and buy someone for the sake of it and who won't succeed here. I trust he will make the right call and if it is a 30+ ex prem Star then lets not write them off before they kick a ball

Henrik Larsson plzzzz

[muzzy1981]

Didn't we just loan out Tom Cobbly to Rochdale!?

I agree with previous comment, "Name a bad Sven signing"? and no Bednar doesn't count he has been with us 5 mins......

I say continue the cleansing right through the squad until we a beast squad that can be sustained in the premier league!

If you don't think big youain't gonna get there! Shame we can't cleanse the fans to wean out all the negativity!!

[Mack]

On the owners.

They maybe anonymous here but back in Thailand this is about raising both their and their company's profile.

English football is held in high status there, so by association they will be looking to gain respect, publicity and notoriety.

They are even showing home games live with king power a blazoned all over the place. And dont forget the trip to Thailand by sven and the players recently.

Does anyone seriously believe there is any money to be made in football? I would very much doubt it.

On Sven.

He is one clever guy, both in football and in business. And a much better football coach than many in this country give him credit for.

Having him as our manager raises the club's profile once again helping the Thai owners, whilst opening possibilities to players who would not look twice at us without Sven at the helm.

I sincerely hope he is with us for the long haul, and not just using us as a shop window to step up again when the opportunity arises like is has currently at Blackburn.

He needs to firm up a squad of players signed to the club permanently in January and put a stop to all the temp loans.

Time will tell.