Best Owners?

[Winchester]

Was thinking about all the clubs who've had new owners over the last decade or so, and was wondering where our owners would rank?

Obviously, Glazer, Ashley (and probably the QPR conglomerate) are bottom of the barrel. Venky's have been pretty horrid. Ambramovich has been good but severely flawed in some respects. Man City will do the same as Ambramovich. That man who put up a statue of MJ outside Fulham is clearly a nutter.

Thought Lerner has been decent at Villa. Fell out with O'neil, but sounds like it was over his spending restrictions, which were fair enough IMO.

Happy with our owners - good folks, seem to respect the fans and the club.

Surely they must rank pretty high up on the list?

[Guest]

With City It'll be easier to assess after another season at least, to see if they fulfil on the talk that we're hearing from them.

I'm genuinely impressed with what I've heard from them so far but time will tell for me as to where they'd rank on any such scale

[OriginalRobboFOX]

Dont think they've been here long enough yet to compare to the likes of Lerner, Glazer et al.

[Jay]

Really not sure why Glazer is down as obviously I mean what exactly have they done wrong? yes they are in debt but who isn't? and the debt is certainly repayable.

They haven't increased ticket prices, they have have supported the manager and the club, they keep quiet and let the manager get on with things, they take a backseat and the club is still growing and since taking over you could argue have become more successful (3European cup finals is it?)

Fayed for me though seems to have his head screwed on and makes good decisions and has seen the club grow and become sustainable at the top level.

[Fosse Boy]

AFC wimbledon and FC United's 'owners' are leagues above anyone else.

[Guest MattP]

Really not sure why Glazer is down as obviously I mean what exactly have they done wrong? yes they are in debt but who isn't? and the debt is certainly repayable.

They haven't increased ticket prices, they have have supported the manager and the club, they keep quiet and let the manager get on with things, they take a backseat and the club is still growing and since taking over you could argue have become more successful (3European cup finals is it?)

Fayed for me though seems to have his head screwed on and makes good decisions and has seen the club grow and become sustainable at the top level.

You being serious?

Everything they have achieved has been down to Ferguson, its been achieved in spite of the Glazers nto because of them.

Good article in the Telegraph about it the other day.

n May 2005 the majority of Manchester United’s fans heading to the Millennium Stadium for the FA Cup final were dressed in black. It was symbolic mourning, marking the arrival of the club’s new owners, the Glazers from Florida.

Using the then-fashionable financial instrument of the leveraged buy-out, the family had saddled United – until then an entirely loan-free institution – with hundreds of millions of pounds of debt to facilitate control.

When Arsenal won the Cup on penalties, it seemed to mark the start of a grim era for United followers, a lifetime of paying for someone else’s indulgence.

Six years on, things appear rather different.

United have won their fourth Premier League title since then, a bauble to set alongside three League Cups and one Champions League trophy. And all this with a third European Cup final in four years to come.

Meanwhile, since that Cardiff meeting, Arsenal – carefully run, living within their means, accruing debt to develop infrastructure rather than merely to gain ownership – have won precisely nothing.

As predictions of doom from those black-clad Cassandras have proven exaggerated, a gathering momentum is building behind the notion that the Glazers should be cut a little slack.

Far from being harbingers of disaster, they have actually ushered in a golden age for United. Maybe it is time to give them some credit for their stewardship.

That might be an increasingly favoured argument, but personally I would rather run around Old Trafford wearing a Sky blue shirt with Tévez emblazoned across the shoulders than I would be prepared to give the family any credit.

I believe United’s success has arrived in spite of the Glazers, not thanks to them. Rather than astute custodians, they are merely monumental leeches, blessed, in their endless requirement for blood, to be attached to such a healthy host body.

Yes, it is true, in this respect, the Glazers have been good owners: they have left Sir Alex Ferguson alone. Said to be intimidated by the old knight, the family have never challenged his judgment.

Allowed to do what he wishes, according to those who know him, the manager has grown into his role, relishing being ever more king of his castle and as a result performing at the top of his game.

Furthermore, at any football club the crucial relationship is that between the manager and the chief operating officer.

At United, with the Glazers absenting themselves from all decision making, that between Ferguson and David Gill has delivered sustained success on the pitch.

And yes, it is unarguable that they have substantially increased United’s revenue stream, introducing hundreds of expensively accrued sponsorship deals from the official supplier of Chilean wine to official worldwide office furniture partner.

But – and this is the crucial point – most of the extra money they have raised has come from the turnstiles, via a year-on-year hike in ticket prices. And it is in the stands at Old Trafford that you get a glimpse of the real change the Glazers have wrought on United.

I watched a game from the East Stand recently and was taken aback by the make-up of the crowd.

In the recent BBC drama United, Jimmy Murphy was seen standing in the middle of an empty stadium explaining to Sir Bobby Charlton his responsibility to his audience.

These were the people who paid to be uplifted by his efforts, Murphy said. And, pointing to the terraces, he spoke of the mill workers, the dockers, the miners to whom the players had a duty of enlightenment.

Were Mike Phelan to do the same with Javier Hernández these days, he would be obliged to pick out the software engineers from Singapore, the human resources managers from Oslo, the hedge fund directors from Prestbury.

At United, in the past five years, the crowd has been financially cleansed. The local working man has been deliberately disfranchised, not necessarily out of malice but because he does not have adequate monetary wherewithal to be of use.

It is, in truth, not that different at Stamford Bridge and the Emirates. This was a process begun at the start of the Premier League era. But the Glazers have accelerated it with reckless abandon.

And the fact is, at United it need never have happened. The club were so big, so successful, they could have maintained a fair pricing structure. As one senior member of staff recently told me: “Had we still been a plc, we’d have been ankle deep in cash.” But they aren’t.

And since the Glazers arrived, £300 million has had to be found – largely from the pockets of match-going fans – simply to service the debt.

That is easily enough to have enlarged the ground to hold 100,000, keep ticket prices at a level most could afford and still have had change to build a floodlit all-weather pitch in every school within a five-mile radius. But such opportunity has been squandered.

It is telling to make comparison with Barcelona, United’s opponents in the Champions League final and their most significant rivals for the title of the world’s biggest club. Next season the Catalans are to charge £525 for a season ticket. That works out at £17.50 per game.

At United, after the latest round of price hikes, it will cost £1,030 (£36.75). Six years ago, United were less expensive than the Spanish champions.

This is the biggest charge the Glazers face: they have done nothing to develop and enhance the club in order to maintain its social fabric.

Unlike those previously in control at United, the Glazers have no interest in the wider civic role of their property. Actually, they aren’t even that interested in the football produced, rarely attending games, the empty spaces in the directors’ box a telling indictment on their involvement.

No one can deny United are thriving on the pitch. But every year, as the prices rise to service the debt, the club disconnect further from their roots. You can call that the sentimental view, perhaps.

The fact is this is now an institution almost entirely divorced from its origins. Once it was a place dedicated to illuminating the lives of all those who called Manchester their home. Now its purpose is to enrich a family from Florida.

And never mind how many trophies have been accrued coincidental to their ownership, that is the true legacy of the Glazers.

As for our owners, time will tell, the real test comes not when throwing money at people or things, but when the serious decisions are made, ie which manager you bring in, Martin George didnt have much money being put into the club, but he appointed 3 managers, Brian Little, Mark McGhee and Martin O Neill, that led us to the most successful period in our lives and it was done at a profit. The same way Stoke and Bolton have done it.

You can have loads of money but if you appoint Bryan Robson, Gareth Southgate etc like Gibson did at Boro you wont get very far.

[Benji]

Really not sure why Glazer is down as obviously I mean what exactly have they done wrong? yes they are in debt but who isn't? and the debt is certainly repayable.

They haven't increased ticket prices, they have have supported the manager and the club, they keep quiet and let the manager get on with things, they take a backseat and the club is still growing and since taking over you could argue have become more successful (3European cup finals is it?)

It's one of the worst examples of leverage buy-outs gone mad. They effectively didn't/haven't bought the club, they got the club to buy itself for their benefit.

As it stands they are hugely profitable in terms of being able to pay the vast amount of interest accruing on the debts. But the first time they fail to make Europe, or go a season or two without trophies, or the Glazers leave without cash-backed billionaires, the cash flow will be cut and the club fcuked.

I think we've been very lucky, putting money where their mouths are and trying to preserve the importance of fans with discounts/benefits, match day changes etc. But I guess it's hard to tell until everything goes wrong and we see how they react.

[Guest MattP]

It's one of the worst examples of leverage buy-outs gone mad. They effectively didn't/haven't bought the club, they got the club to buy itself for their benefit.

As it stands they are hugely profitable in terms of being able to pay the vast amount of interest accruing on the debts. But the first time they fail to make Europe, or go a season or two without trophies, or the Glazers leave without cash-backed billionaires, the cash flow will be cut and the club fcuked.

I think we've been very lucky, putting money where their mouths are and trying to preserve the importance of fans without discounts/benefits, match day changes etc. But I guess it's hard to tell until everything goes wrong and we see how they react.

This season Man Utd's season tickets are going up for the 6th year and Tampa Bay Bucs are being reduced by around 30% - both are connected to the accounts of redfootball ltd.

How anyone can see that as just is incredible?

[tomtom]

Very early days but so far so good,..I'm more than happy with them

[Haydos]

Definitely too early.

[Nocturnal]

Good signs so far, Top seems like a good guy

We'll see though.

[Winchester]

AFC wimbledon and FC United's 'owners' are leagues above anyone else.

That's true.

[Webbo]

This season Man Utd's season tickets are going up for the 6th year and Tampa Bay Bucs are being reduced by around 30% - both are connected to the accounts of redfootball ltd.

How anyone can see that as just is incredible?

I bet they still sell out every week.

[Guest MattP]

I bet they still sell out every week.

Of course, hence why they do it.

Why cater for a 25 year Man Utd season ticket holder who works on a building site when you can charge £400 more and shift his ticket to a Swedish banker.....

[Guest Basildon Fox]

It's one of the worst examples of leverage buy-outs gone mad. They effectively didn't/haven't bought the club, they got the club to buy itself for their benefit.

As it stands they are hugely profitable in terms of being able to pay the vast amount of interest accruing on the debts. But the first time they fail to make Europe, or go a season or two without trophies, or the Glazers leave without cash-backed billionaires, the cash flow will be cut and the club fcuked.

I think we've been very lucky, putting money where their mouths are and trying to preserve the importance of fans with discounts/benefits, match day changes etc. But I guess it's hard to tell until everything goes wrong and we see how they react.

The thing is though, a club like Man Uts will never go under as they will always be profitable to anyone who buys them. I can see sooner rather than later they will be bought by a Middle Eastern consortium and the Glazers will wipe the huge debt they have accrued and put against the club.

It is a shame though because a lot of genuine fans have been turned off them, in many cases for good.

[Benji]

The thing is though, a club like Man Uts will never go under as they will always be profitable to anyone who buys them. I can see sooner rather than later they will be bought by a Middle Eastern consortium and the Glazers will wipe the huge debt they have accrued and put against the club.

It is a shame though because a lot of genuine fans have been turned off them, in many cases for good.

More than likely, but there's every possibility they fund/refinance it exactly the same way or even worse it turns out to be a "Notts County". Either way it will only remain viable if as a club they stay successful on the pitch and as such remain a marketable brand. What with Man City coming through the ranks and possible others, there's every chance in the next 5 to 10 years the premiership becomes unrecognisable in top 3 contenders. For a fan I imagine the big worry is the club can be all but lost if they don't keep winning trophies. Let's face it, could anyone other than SAF have made that weak team both premiership winners and champions league finalists?

From an LCFC point of view, I'd be interested to see how the takeover/wages and transfer fees were being funded. It must be more personal to the owners because I don't think we even have the Man Utd-esque assets to secure against do we? Is the stadium still leased?

[DB11]

I want City's.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Good signs so far, Top seems like a good guy

We'll see though.

yep i agree, good so far, lets see what happens next

[The Year Of The Fox]

Glazer down there with Ashley? No way. Glazer, as far as I know, has done nothing wrong. Not comparable to ashley and abramovich anyway.

As for our owners, its far far too early to say anything yet. Be the judge of that next summer when we don't get promotion. I admit, they certainly say the right things so far.

[topharry123]

This season Man Utd's season tickets are going up for the 6th year and Tampa Bay Bucs are being reduced by around 30% - both are connected to the accounts of redfootball ltd.

How anyone can see that as just is incredible?

Man United sell out every single week. Tampa Bay are 20,000 below capacity each game. They NEED to reduce ticket prices to keep their club where it is. If an NFL team is not profitable or popular enough, they can be bought and moved to another city. Right now LA is building a huge stadium with the view of buying a team, Tampa are one of those considered because they are not popular enough. What they have done is clever business. They have increased prices when the demand exceeds the amount of tickets, and reduced prices when there are more tickets than there is demand for them.

[topharry123]

More than likely, but there's every possibility they fund/refinance it exactly the same way or even worse it turns out to be a "Notts County". Either way it will only remain viable if as a club they stay successful on the pitch and as such remain a marketable brand. What with Man City coming through the ranks and possible others, there's every chance in the next 5 to 10 years the premiership becomes unrecognisable in top 3 contenders. For a fan I imagine the big worry is the club can be all but lost if they don't keep winning trophies. Let's face it, could anyone other than SAF have made that weak team both premiership winners and champions league finalists?

From an LCFC point of view, I'd be interested to see how the takeover/wages and transfer fees were being funded. It must be more personal to the owners because I don't think we even have the Man Utd-esque assets to secure against do we? Is the stadium still leased?

Yes I think a lot of managers could. They're not weak at all.

One of the best goalkeepers of our generation.

Defenders of Evra who is the best in his position in the game, Vidic who is a rock at the center of defense, Ferdinand a captain of England (until Terry got it back because of his injury), and the young developing talent of Fabio.

Midfielders of Nani who has improved rapidly of recent times, Giggs who may be older but still an incredible player, then your choice of Anderson, Valencia, Fletcher, Scholes who are all extremely tidy players. Not the strongest there but still.

Forwards of Rooney who no-one can dispute his quality, Berbatov who is premier leagues top scorer, then Chicharito who has had a wonder first season and almost looks like as good a buy as Ronaldo was.

Personally I see very little weaknesses at all in that team and think almost any manager could have got them where they are this season.

[ajthefox]

We've had them a year, it's been good so far but lets wait and see before we start saying they're the best owners in the league..

[Benji]

Yes I think a lot of managers could. They're not weak at all.

One of the best goalkeepers of our generation.

Defenders of Evra who is the best in his position in the game, Vidic who is a rock at the center of defense, Ferdinand a captain of England (until Terry got it back because of his injury), and the young developing talent of Fabio.

Midfielders of Nani who has improved rapidly of recent times, Giggs who may be older but still an incredible player, then your choice of Anderson, Valencia, Fletcher, Scholes who are all extremely tidy players. Not the strongest there but still.

Forwards of Rooney who no-one can dispute his quality, Berbatov who is premier leagues top scorer, then Chicharito who has had a wonder first season and almost looks like as good a buy as Ronaldo was.

Personally I see very little weaknesses at all in that team and think almost any manager could have got them where they are this season.

Ferdinand played less than half the season and Valencia about 10 games. Nani has not lived up to the hype since Ronaldo left and the moment Valencia is fit he's chucked onto the bench. Players like Anderson, O'Shea and Fletcher (although I accept that he has good games now and then) should be no where near a top 3 side. The twins have looked very naive in defence until recently but again haven't played many games and Rooney was a mess post-World Cup. He spent the first part of the season looking to leave and playing like a park footballer. They have looked very good in recent weeks and I actually enjoyed watching them play against Chelsea. But about half way through the season no one could believe they were top of the league and if the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal didn't bottle every opportunity they had they'd never have won.

Trying to keep it relevant to the thread, if they don't invest and other clubs begin to take over them, they'll be financially crippled. Even more so that 3 of their best players, Van der sar, Giggs and Scholes, haven't got many years left between them.

[Guest Bilo]

Too early to judge.

It's all good so far and we can have no complaints, but if we're going to spend as much money as I suspect in the summer it could very easily end up being promotion or bust like Cardiff. That's the last thing we want to be honest so I'll reserve judgement till this time next year.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Were either gonna spend too much or end up with no-one. I do believe itl be promotion orbust next season.