Legalise cannabis?

[Webbo]

And couple this with a good amount of tax for massive increase in public coffers, along with paying for regulation to make sure the stuff is 'clean' and at least reasonably safe.

I've made this point countless times on this thread but why would people who knowingly break the law now and use dangerous substances now be desperate to pay tax and pay a premium for their drugs when they're happy with what they're getting now from their dealer?

[The God Emperor]

I've made this point countless times on this thread but why would people who knowingly break the law now and use dangerous substances now be desperate to pay tax and pay a premium for their drugs when they're happy with what they're getting now from their dealer?

one way is not to place any special tax on it and just let people sell as any other product. bootleg drugs would still be on the market after ending prohibition because alot of people using now would still go to their dealer, but eventually the culture would change and people would buy it from legal sellers. it like when alcohol prohibiton ended in the US they taxed it alot so it was exspensive so people still bought bootleg alcohol but eventually that culture died out.

[leicsmac]

I've made this point countless times on this thread but why would people who knowingly break the law now and use dangerous substances now be desperate to pay tax and pay a premium for their drugs when they're happy with what they're getting now from their dealer?

 

Convenience, and the idea that most of the black market dealers will be put out of business by the legalisation of their product, in the same way black market alochol bootleggers were put out of business by the abandonment of Prohibition.

 

As TGE says above, time would result in a change in culture.

[Webbo]

Well it could be what you say is true, who knows?I think that the fact that you're dealing with lowlifes and risking your health with their adulterated products is enough to put a lot of people off and imo that's good thing. I can see a lot of advantages in keeping it illegal but I can't see a plus side to legalisation.

 

Anyone who can say for certain on issues like this  though hasn't really given it enough thought.

[I am Rod Hull]

You cant seriously believe that putting the sale of class A drugs in the hands of private companies is a good idea. Putting it in the hands of companies that are solely driven by profit would only see an increase the number of addicts.

[The God Emperor]

Well it could be what you say is true, who knows?I think that the fact that you're dealing with lowlifes and risking your health with their adulterated products is enough to put a lot of people off and imo that's good thing. I can see a lot of advantages in keeping it illegal but I can't see a plus side to legalisation.

 

Anyone who can say for certain on issues like this  though hasn't really given it enough thought

I've given it alot of thought. prohibition does not work, it does not stop people using. it just makes the product more dangerous. I know people who use and their not low lifes, I believe their foolish for using but if their happy doing it then who am I to say they cant.

alot of the argument against legalisation seems to either using the angle that if drugs were legal everyone would start using them which isnt true. and if its a game of who we should be feeling sorry for, I have a great deal more sympathy for people who live in areas where the gangs who are fueled by the illegal drug trade operate and make innocent people's lives hell than I do for someone who fully knowing the risks got themselves addicted.

[Webbo]

I've given it alot of thought. prohibition does not work, it does not stop people using. it just makes the product more dangerous. I know people who use and their not low lifes, I believe their foolish for using but if their happy doing it then who am I to say they cant.

alot of the argument against legalisation seems to either using the angle that if drugs were legal everyone would start using them which isnt true. and if its a game of who we should be feeling sorry for, I have a great deal more sympathy for people who live in areas where the gangs who are fueled by the illegal drug trade operate and make innocent people's lives hell than I do for someone who fully knowing the risks got themselves addicted.

Gangs can just as easily be fuelled by legal drugs.

[The God Emperor]

You cant seriously believe that putting the sale of class A drugs in the hands of private companies is a good idea. Putting it in the hands of companies that are solely driven by profit would only see an increase the number of addicts.

and keeping it solely in the hands of drug cartels and criminals is any safer?

if it was sold on the legal market through some regulation and the nature of how the market works it would give a much greater guarantee of the product being safe (relative to drugs of course) to use.

the more addictive drug and dangerous drugs (meth, crack cocaine etc) were invented because of prohibition of drugs due to them giving a stronger high for less, making them easier to conceal and produce and sell larger amounts.

if private companies produced them there would be less incentive to make the product addictive. the drug dealer needs a captive audience of addicts to kee coming back to it. if it was sold over the counter in tescos or the newsagents there is less need for this captive audience.

[James.]

Gangs can just as easily be fuelled by legal drugs.

Can they? How do you know this?

[I am Rod Hull]

I've given it alot of thought. prohibition does not work, it does not stop people using. it just makes the product more dangerous. I know people who use and their not low lifes, I believe their foolish for using but if their happy doing it then who am I to say they cant.

alot of the argument against legalisation seems to either using the angle that if drugs were legal everyone would start using them which isnt true. and if its a game of who we should be feeling sorry for, I have a great deal more sympathy for people who live in areas where the gangs who are fueled by the illegal drug trade operate and make innocent people's lives hell than I do for someone who fully knowing the risks got themselves addicted.

 

It is true though isnt it. Not everyone, but the number of users would go through the roof.

[The God Emperor]

Gangs can just as easily be fuelled by legal drugs.

how many gangs receive multi billion dollar revenues from the sale of currently legal products like alcohol? the revenue of these criminal enterprises would be greatly reduced even with a small market for bootleg drugs surviving legalisation. not to mention the increased job oppurtunties for people in the new industry would mean less people turning to crime to make a living

Edited 29 September 2013 by The God Emperor

[Webbo]

how many gangs receive multi billion dollar revenues from the sale of currently legal products like alcohol? the revenue of these criminal enterprises would be greatly reduced even with a small market for bootleg drugs surviving legalisation. not to mention the increased job oppurtunties for people in the new industry would mean less people turning to crime make a living

I think I must had misunderstood your point, I thought you meant gangs of lads on street corners high on drugs making life a misery for their neighbours.

[Guest]

It is true though isnt it. Not everyone, but the number of users would go through the roof.

Did everybody suddenly skin up when cannabis moved from class B to C? No.

[Webbo]

Did everybody suddenly skin up when cannabis moved from class B to C? No.

You still couldn't buy it at Boots thoughts.

[I am Rod Hull]

and keeping it solely in the hands of drug cartels and criminals is any safer?

if it was sold on the legal market through some regulation and the nature of how the market works it would give a much greater guarantee of the product being safe (relative to drugs of course) to use.

the more addictive drug and dangerous drugs (meth, crack cocaine etc) were invented because of prohibition of drugs due to them giving a stronger high for less, making them easier to conceal and produce and sell larger amounts.

if private companies produced them there would be less incentive to make the product addictive. the drug dealer needs a captive audience of addicts to kee coming back to it. if it was sold over the counter in tescos or the newsagents there is less need for this captive audience.

 

Let me know when this unaddictive miracle drug comes on the market. 

[The God Emperor]

It is true though isnt it. Not everyone, but the number of users would go through the roof.

there might be a small increase at first while the taboo is still there, but there would be more of a guarantee for the safety of using the product. people who don't use dont it because they don't see a benefit in using, not because some bureaucrat tells them not to.       

[The God Emperor]

Let me know when this unaddictive miracle drug comes on the market. 

where did I say there was one?

I said that the more addictive and dangerous drugs where invented due to drugs being illegal and that legalisation would make them safer (relative to drugs) to use.

[Guest]

You still couldn't buy it at Boots thoughts.

Of course not but I'm not buying the 'if it weren't for it being illegal, the majority of people would be out using Class A drugs' argument.

[Webbo]

Of course not but I'm not buying the 'if it weren't for it being illegal, the majority of people would be out using Class A drugs' argument.

Not the majority no but more than now.

[I am Rod Hull]

Did everybody suddenly skin up when cannabis moved from class B to C? No.

 

Thats not my point. What i`m saying is if you legalise and put it in the hands of private companies the number of users will increase. You have to be off your head to believe otherwise.

[The God Emperor]

Not the majority no but more than now.

and what would be wrong with that? through regulation they wouldn't have the dangerous additives and a standard of purity could be guaranteed.

consenting adults should be able to put what they want into their bodies. 

[Webbo]

and what would be wrong with that? through regulation they wouldn't have the dangerous additives and a standard of purity could be guaranteed.

consenting adults should be able to put what they want into their bodies. 

On an ideological level I have some sympathy with that, on a practical level I think it'd be a disaster.

[The God Emperor]

On an ideological level I have some sympathy with that, on a practical level I think it'd be a disaster.

I agree with this statement. when I'm talking about legalisation, I'm mainly talking about it in the hypothetical free society I believe we should be striving to achieve. I dont believe that socialised medicine and legal class A drugs would be a match made in heaven but I didnt want to start another rant about socialised medicine  .

cannabis, cocaine and the like I think would fine to legalise in our current situation.

[leicsmac]

I really don't think that just because certain addictive drugs were made legal, regulated and taxed, that society would collapse through a vast amount of increase in usage of them. 

 

However at the same time I would agree that the full effects of such legalisation would be difficult to fathom, and so see other peoples point on not really knowing the full picture.

 

I would roll out a limited legalisation and taxing program just for cannabis though as a test run - if only for a few months - to gather data, and then announce a decision regarding further legalisation of it or back to criminalisation based on those findings. Such a study would give a benchmark for the future.

[James.]

People often say that legalising would increase usage but then don't give any evidence or reasoning behind that view. Just seems like a lazy assumption to me, particularly when you take a look at some real world examples...

 

EDIT: better article... http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060.html

Edited 29 September 2013 by James.