Legalise cannabis?

[Steven]

Thanks for that Steven. I did actually look it up but fell asleep reading it's meaning.

[Webbo]

Really? I wouldn't buy bottles of Vodka from guys on the street, even if they're a few quid cheaper.

 

You'd pay the extra for a product you know you can trust.

People are already buying from drug dealers, why would they suddenly stop?

[AdamN]

People are already buying from drug dealers, why would they suddenly stop?

 

Of course they are. Where else would you get those drugs?

[inckley fox]

People are already buying from drug dealers, why would they suddenly stop?

I remember the days when someone would want to score and spend three hours phoning shady contacts, groaning "nah he's not got any". waiting for people who never turned up, wandering round parks looking for someone who isn't there, knocking on doors with no reply, picking up from terrifying bedsits then complaining that it was bad weed or not enough bad weed... I'm sure they would pay a few extra quid to go straight to the corner shop and get what they paid for.

 

And surely dealers inflate prices too? Burning plastic into hash, or cutting teething powder into cocaine is a tax of sorts, isn't it?

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

I tend to agree, but where do you stand on under-age porn on the Internet? The creepy old dock-end toothed perv looking up pictures of under-age girls, or exchanging them with others, isn't directly harming anyone either - should that be legal? The harm, in both cases, is done indirectly.

 

 

I think I saw once that a third of street crime is connected to heroin use (muggings etc.). I doubt that 1% of street crime comes from cannabis use.

 

 

Who do you think provides funding for the NHS? And it's not only revenue gained through taxation that's at stake, it's the huge resources needed by the police to combat cannabis use. And besides, cannabis use isn't statistically highest in places where it's legalised. Italy has a virtual zero tolerance policy towards cannabis possession, and has nearly three times more users than Holland, which has - in places - a very relaxed stance.

 

Do you really believe that they would get all that revenue? A mere fraction of the cost to the NHS.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

 

I tend to agree, but where do you stand on under-age porn on the Internet? The creepy old dock-end toothed perv looking up pictures of under-age girls, or exchanging them with others, isn't directly harming anyone either - should that be legal? The harm, in both cases, is done indirectly.

 

 

I think I saw once that a third of street crime is connected to heroin use (muggings etc.). I doubt that 1% of street crime comes from cannabis use.

 

 

Who do you think provides funding for the NHS? And it's not only revenue gained through taxation that's at stake, it's the huge resources needed by the police to combat cannabis use. And besides, cannabis use isn't statistically highest in places where it's legalised. Italy has a virtual zero tolerance policy towards cannabis possession, and has nearly three times more users than Holland, which has - in places - a very relaxed stance.

 

 

Do you really believe the NHS would receive enough revenue back from the government to cover the vast cost to it? They would get sweet fa, and you know it.

[sphericalfox]

 

 

I tend to agree, but where do you stand on under-age porn on the Internet? The creepy old dock-end toothed perv looking up pictures of under-age girls, or exchanging them with others, isn't directly harming anyone either - should that be legal? The harm, in both cases, is done indirectly.

 

 

I think I saw once that a third of street crime is connected to heroin use (muggings etc.). I doubt that 1% of street crime comes from cannabis use.

 

 

Who do you think provides funding for the NHS? And it's not only revenue gained through taxation that's at stake, it's the huge resources needed by the police to combat cannabis use. And besides, cannabis use isn't statistically highest in places where it's legalised. Italy has a virtual zero tolerance policy towards cannabis possession, and has nearly three times more users than Holland, which has - in places - a very relaxed stance.

 

 

Do you really believe the NHS would receive enough revenue back from the government to cover the vast cost to it? They would get sweet fa, and you know it.

 

 

Are you really that alarmist? The answer is yes. The proportion of crime related to marijuana, and the proportion of direct costs to the NHS is simply not as exaggerated as your tiny mind can cope with. In wonder how much the police get from the extortion tax on alcohol? Surely such a service which faces the brunt of crime related to such a highly volatile drug, you'd think they'd get extra money from the taxes to deal with it? The answer is they do, but not enough to cope or manage with such an overwhelming problem. The difference is that marijuana legalised will not pull the fabric of society apart as you dream it will, and the taxes derived from it would be no more palatable to go into the government coffers than the disgraceful sights in every town and city in the country that no doubt go towards your pension.

[Webbo]

Are you really that alarmist? The answer is yes. The proportion of crime related to marijuana, and the proportion of direct costs to the NHS is simply not as exaggerated as your tiny mind can cope with. In wonder how much the police get from the extortion tax on alcohol? Surely such a service which faces the brunt of crime related to such a highly volatile drug, you'd think they'd get extra money from the taxes to deal with it? The answer is they do, but not enough to cope or manage with such an overwhelming problem. The difference is that marijuana legalised will not pull the fabric of society apart as you dream it will, and the taxes derived from it would be no more palatable to go into the government coffers than the disgraceful sights in every town and city in the country that no doubt go towards your pension.

In your opinion. You have no more proof of that than the anti drug types have for their assuption.

[sphericalfox]

In your opinion. You have no more proof of that than the anti drug types have for their assuption.

No just various experts in their fields producing reports, including the last government 'drug csar'. Various countries legalising, and they haven't torn themselves apart either.

[Webbo]

No just various experts in their fields producing reports, including the last government 'drug csar'. Various countries legalising, and they haven't torn themselves apart either.

There are experts who would disagree. As for the countries that have decriminalised time will tell.

[sphericalfox]

There are experts who would disagree. As for the countries that have decriminalised time will tell.

 

And yet the overwhelming pool of expertise disagree with that small minority. What time would you give the 'experimentation' in these countries? 

[inckley fox]

There are experts who would disagree. As for the countries that have decriminalised time will tell.

 

In your opinion. You have no more proof of that than the anti drug types have for their assuption.

 

Well, actually there is proof.

 

Holland, in spite of its relatively lax drug laws, is lower than us on the crime index, and lower than other countries with far harsher drug laws such as Italy (which also has three times more cannabis users). It also has a slightly lower number of cannabis users than us.

 

Spain, where cannabis was partially decriminalised decades ago, has a lower crime rate than most countries in Europe, regardless of having more cannabis smokers.

 

Portugal largely decriminalised all drugs in the early 2000s. Of course crime figures were reduced, but there was also an immediate drop in the numbers of young people substance abusing.

 

I suppose time does tell, then.

[Webbo]

And yet the overwhelming pool of expertise disagree with that small minority. What time would you give the 'experimentation' in these countries? 

Who says the prodrugs lobby are the majority?

 

Of course crime will fall if you legalise something, if you legalise robbery it ceases to be a crime therefore the crime figures will fall. It is proven that long term smoking of cannabis can cause mental problems that can lead to all sorts of unfortunate consequences.

[jamesmilner]

i am 85 days clean from weed . i smoked it for 23 yrs . 20 of those years i would have been on the pro side of weed and argued the toss that it was no worse than alcohol etc etc etc . it all depends on the user . why am i 85 days clean ? why have i stopped smoking weed ? well the last three years i was ruined by weed . i was invaded by the demons of weed . i was extreme in my thoughts , my mood swings were awful , my paranoia was awful too . i was suicidal and deeply depressed . i couldnt believe it was weed  that was doing this . but it was . it eventually cost me my family , my love of my life , my life as a family man that i have always been  . being in my 85th day of a life without weed , i now  look back and just cannot understand how it changed me the last few years as a person but it did  . i will never smoke it again, it controlled my life  . i have had counselling which has helped me through the withdrawal symptons and mind change .im fine now , clear headed . i cant now say legalise it or not . but it definitely got to me in the end  ,it ruined my life , my love of my lifes life and ripped my family apart .i am single because of weed . there is always two sides to every story .mine is i wish i had never ever touched the stuff . im happy being clean , my health and mental health is better , my wallet is fuller and my house doesnt stink . the only thing that still stinks cus of weed is my life !!

[sphericalfox]

i am 85 days clean from weed . i smoked it for 23 yrs . 20 of those years i would have been on the pro side of weed and argued the toss that it was no worse than alcohol etc etc etc . it all depends on the user . why am i 85 days clean ? why have i stopped smoking weed ? well the last three years i was ruined by weed . i was invaded by the demons of weed . i was extreme in my thoughts , my mood swings were awful , my paranoia was awful too . i was suicidal and deeply depressed . i couldnt believe it was weed  that was doing this . but it was . it eventually cost me my family , my love of my life , my life as a family man that i have always been  . being in my 85th day of a life without weed , i now  look back and just cannot understand how it changed me the last few years as a person but it did  . i will never smoke it again, it controlled my life  . i have had counselling which has helped me through the withdrawal symptons and mind change .im fine now , clear headed . i cant now say legalise it or not . but it definitely got to me in the end  ,it ruined my life , my love of my lifes life and ripped my family apart .i am single because of weed . there is always two sides to every story .mine is i wish i had never ever touched the stuff . im happy being clean , my health and mental health is better , my wallet is fuller and my house doesnt stink . the only thing that still stinks cus of weed is my life !!

 

I'm glad you are on the mend, and I'm sorry to hear your personal circumstances from it. Like any drug, or habitual crutch, it can have devastating control over your life and those around you. I hope for your own well being you can continue. 

 

However, not to diminish your example, but I'm sure that your story could be attributed to many with alcohol addiction with even worse consequences, so despite your personal tragedy, I am personally going to still move to a legalised system where there is an element of control, and those in a minority who might be affected might easily find help early doors, and not find themselves in your predicament. 

[inckley fox]

i am 85 days clean from weed . i smoked it for 23 yrs . 20 of those years i would have been on the pro side of weed and argued the toss that it was no worse than alcohol etc etc etc . it all depends on the user . why am i 85 days clean ? why have i stopped smoking weed ? well the last three years i was ruined by weed . i was invaded by the demons of weed . i was extreme in my thoughts , my mood swings were awful , my paranoia was awful too . i was suicidal and deeply depressed . i couldnt believe it was weed  that was doing this . but it was . it eventually cost me my family , my love of my life , my life as a family man that i have always been  . being in my 85th day of a life without weed , i now  look back and just cannot understand how it changed me the last few years as a person but it did  . i will never smoke it again, it controlled my life  . i have had counselling which has helped me through the withdrawal symptons and mind change .im fine now , clear headed . i cant now say legalise it or not . but it definitely got to me in the end  ,it ruined my life , my love of my lifes life and ripped my family apart .i am single because of weed . there is always two sides to every story .mine is i wish i had never ever touched the stuff . im happy being clean , my health and mental health is better , my wallet is fuller and my house doesnt stink . the only thing that still stinks cus of weed is my life !!

 

Yes, lots of things in the world are dangerous if (a) you react badly to them and (b) you do too many of them. That could include recreational drugs like cannabis or alcohol, medicinal drugs like paracetamol, or foodstuffs like hamburgers etc.

 

And, while I'm pleased that you are on the mend, I'm never convinced by language like 'invaded by the demons of weed' (all a bit too Pat Robertson for me - who are you trying to convince?!), nor by the tendency that people have of blaming their failure to hold down meaningful relationships on a substance. I got drunk once and told a girl I didn't fancy her anymore, which was appalling. We broke up, which was a shame. Was it alcohol's fault? No, it was mine!

 

Cannabis can have a negative effect on some people. It may tip an unstable person over the edge. Equally, it may be precisely the sort of thing that an unstable person chooses to prop themselves up on in life. A chicken and egg thing, if you see what I mean.

 

It's a good thing that you're staying off the weed and keeping optimistic - but if you work out all of your problems it may well have as much to do with the latter as it does with the former.

[Webbo]

This is why you can't trust experts. If the evidence doesn't fit the theory you just ignore it.

[inckley fox]

Who says the prodrugs lobby are the majority?

 

Of course crime will fall if you legalise something, if you legalise robbery it ceases to be a crime therefore the crime figures will fall. It is proven that long term smoking of cannabis can cause mental problems that can lead to all sorts of unfortunate consequences.

 

Yes, but when drug-related street crime also falls, and less young people in the area concerned use drugs, then the picture is clearer.

 

In Europe, there is no evident relationship between the stringency of drug legislation and that country's drug use rate. In Holland cannabis use is lower than in Britain and France, and a lot lower than in Italy, where drug laws are far tougher than here. It's lower still in Portugal, which also has partial decriminilisation. On the other hand it is quite high in Spain (although crime figures in general are very low).

 

But for me, I don't think you're arguing this. You think we're suggesting that cannabis is a good thing. For my part, at least, this isn't the case.

 

The legalisation of cannabis, to me, is not a means of saying 'this thing's alright, feel free to smoke all you want', but rather a way of raising tax revenue, reducing police workload, decriminalising half a million people and putting a few drug dealers out of business. And there's no reason to believe that, in the process, we will have more cannabis users on our hands.

[Lasty]

No, no and thrice no.

Turns people into paranoid, empty headed wrecks. Try living next door to a bunch of potheads and all the Pro lot would soon change their tune.

The stuff reeks as well and there's kids that have to breathe that crap in when it wafts over. Parks are the worst place for it. There needs to be a message that this stuff is definitely not ok.

[inckley fox]

No, no and thrice no.

Turns people into paranoid, empty headed wrecks. Try living next door to a bunch of potheads and all the Pro lot would soon change their tune.

The stuff reeks as well and there's kids that have to breathe that crap in when it wafts over. Parks are the worst place for it. There needs to be a message that this stuff is definitely not ok.

 

Okay, like in Italy where the laws are much tougher but there are three times more users?

 

Or Holland where laws are more relaxed, prevention is based on education, and less people smoke it?

 

As for 'try living next door' to 'potheads' - is that as close as you have got? As a teenager and young adult I lived with a few, and during half a decade in Spain I had neighbours who smoked and saw nothing to make me change my tune, or believe they were all 'empty headed wrecks'. I got more intelligent conversations out of them than I get out of most of the trembling drunkards clinging to the bar at my local.

 

Besides this isn't about advocating cannabis use, it's about the law. A government should be very careful when it comes to criminalising people - it does little to build respect for the law when you turn people who otherwise aren't breaking it into criminals. So what do we gain from criminalising potheads? We waste police resources at a time of economic crisis, miss out on tax revenue, keep drug dealers in business and watch as the number of drug users in Britain continues to rise.

 

So those neighbours of yours - as empty-headed as they may or may not be - aren't going to go away any time soon, whether we toughen the laws or not.

[Guest ttfn]

I cannot for the life of me get my head around the "alcohol's legal so lot should be too" argument.

Cannabis has got the potential to fvck people up, as does alcohol. Alcohol shouldn't be legal but it is. Rightly or wrongly it is ingrained in our culture as a nation and is used as a crutch by many (myself included at times). That it is not legal is not a good thing.

But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the legalisation of cannabis. Each case should be judged on its own terms.

What does society have to benefit from cannabis being legal? Why can't you just accept its illegal for many reasons, jamesmilner's sad example above being one?

[Rincewind]

I am sure some sort of weed was used even by prehistoric man. Native Americans used it to go into a trance.

The question is, does it fit in with modern society? Does alcohol for that matter when modern Man has more responsibility and lives a completely different life to how things were thousands of years ago.

I was talking to someone the other day who was rolling his own fags. He said he never done needles but has the occasional 'spiff' for social reasons. The people around him smoke them so he joins in. He seems sensible enough to know how far he can go yet he has had problems of another nature over the years and got over them.

[Vacamion]

I cannot for the life of me get my head around the "alcohol's legal so lot should be too" argument.

Cannabis has got the potential to fvck people up, as does alcohol. Alcohol shouldn't be legal but it is. Rightly or wrongly it is ingrained in our culture as a nation and is used as a crutch by many (myself included at times). That it is not legal is not a good thing.

But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the legalisation of cannabis. Each case should be judged on its own terms.

What does society have to benefit from cannabis being legal? Why can't you just accept its illegal for many reasons, jamesmilner's sad example above being one?

I would be happy for the merits of decrminalisation of cannabis to be discussed without reference to alcohol.

By the same logic, people shouldn't constantly bring up hard drugs, 'gateway drugs' and the like when we are discussing cannabis.

I hope it goes without saying that it is incorrect and unrepresentative to base your concusions on the unfortunate experience of one individual.

Those of you who don't want cannabis legalised - we're not forcing you to take it.

Why can't you agree that those who DO want to enjoy it should be allowed do so, if it is their adult choice to partake?

[flowwolf]

Well, actually there is proof.

 

Holland, in spite of its relatively lax drug laws, is lower than us on the crime index, and lower than other countries with far harsher drug laws such as Italy (which also has three times more cannabis users). It also has a slightly lower number of cannabis users than us.

 

Spain, where cannabis was partially decriminalised decades ago, has a lower crime rate than most countries in Europe, regardless of having more cannabis smokers.

 

Portugal largely decriminalised all drugs in the early 2000s. Of course crime figures were reduced, but there was also an immediate drop in the numbers of young people substance abusing.

 

I suppose time does tell, then.

 

 

No not really , you cannot compare one country against another. there are so many factors , culture being one of the main factors. Anyone can come on here quoting experts views etc. But the fact remains in this country no political party is going to legalise cannabis, it would be political suicide because whether we like it or not the general public are not stupid and know the evils of drugs and the social problems that trail in it's wake.

 

The silent majority who do not take drugs will always outweigh the noisy pro freedom drugs lobby. Get use to it because it is not going to happen any time soon.

[ealingfox]

No, no and thrice no.

Turns people into paranoid, empty headed wrecks. Try living next door to a bunch of potheads and all the Pro lot would soon change their tune.

The stuff reeks as well and there's kids that have to breathe that crap in when it wafts over. Parks are the worst place for it. There needs to be a message that this stuff is definitely not ok.

 

Been a regular user since I was 15. This week I'm finishing my Master thesis. It affects people differently, blanket statements like that are far less applicable to cannabis than alcohol.