Legalise cannabis?

[Guest MattP]

The thing is people are going to abuse alcohol or weed if it's legal or not. to much of anything isn't good for a person atleast with legalisation people might be able to make a educated decesion on it.

 

Fair enough, you have far more faith in the British public than me.

[LestaFox92]

Fair enough, you have far more faith in the British public than me.

 

You have got a point but there has to be a point where it's there problem and it shouldn't ruin it for people like me who enjoy the odd spliff and not only that i take alot of intrest into the different strains like the different brands of alcohol there is a whole culture behind cannabis that's get tarnished by hood rats thinking it's sick to smoke a zuggie init brav.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Just out of interest, and this is a genuine question and not just me being mischievous, but of the people reading this, does the legality or otherwise of drugs having any impact on whether you've tried them or not?

 

There's clearly a fear amongst some folk around the softening of the law around currently prohibited substances that seems to be based on a notion that legalisation would mean consumption would soar.  I'm not going to say whether it would or wouldn't - I simply don't know the answer (and of course it would depend on what form that legalisation took, as you cannot infer from the term 'legalisation' how freely available the substance is).

 

I struggle to believe that there are significant numbers that don't take drugs because of their legal status - there are lots of reasons not to take them

[Fox92]

Why is alcohol always the comparison?

 

Believe me if that came on the market now as something new it wouldn't be legal. It's there because it's ingrained in society.

 

Agreed... I hate it when I get 'but you drink alcohol'. It's like people try and look for ways to defend their use of drugs.

 

In reference to the above post, I've been asked that question by my mates. As I say to them, if they were legal, I'd still not take drugs (I know I drink alcohol, but not to a massive extent).

Edited 12 June 2013 by Fox92

[Guest MattP]

Just out of interest, and this is a genuine question and not just me being mischievous, but of the people reading this, does the legality or otherwise of drugs having any impact on whether you've tried them or not?

 

I struggle to believe that there are significant numbers that don't take drugs because of their legal status - there are lots of reasons not to take them

No idea, I've pretty much tried everything except Heroin at some point.

 

There are a couple of drugs I can think of that I'm very glad aren't widely available as I probably would go and have a bit more when I'm a bit down in the dumps. Dangerous for me with my addictive personality as well.

 

I'm not talking about Cannabis btw, trued it a few times but didn't really like it. Makes you smell as well as to be honest I have no idea why a grown man would still be using it.

[ealingfox]

You think we are funtioning that well as a society with it?

 

Our town centres at night become no go zones due to the booze culture we have (I know as I partake in it), we have thousands of deaths on the road due to it, most domestic violence results from use of it. Untold people have criminal records because of actions that have committed on it.

 

As for cannabis being openly avaliable in just ten years I think you can tell the difference in Amsterdam to how much of a zomified shithole it has become now.

 

I'm not against it and I wouldnt try and stop someone smoking it, just seeing what it has done to some of the people I care about it's hard for me to justify legalising it.

 

Bit of an exaggeration, they hardly become the Gaza strip do they?

 

Also a massive exaggeration. A relatively small area in the City Centre (the Red Light District) has become very tacky, seedy and just not very nice, but thats not solely down to cannabis being legal, prostitution also is as were other drugs like mushrooms until a few years ago. Generally speaking the rest of the city is still beautiful.

[inckley fox]

No idea, I've pretty much tried everything except Heroin at some point.

 

There are a couple of drugs I can think of that I'm very glad aren't widely available as I probably would go and have a bit more when I'm a bit down in the dumps. Dangerous for me with my addictive personality as well.

 

I'm not talking about Cannabis btw, trued it a few times but didn't really like it. Makes you smell as well as to be honest I have no idea why a grown man would still be using it.

 

I may be wrong, but this implies that your stance may be because (a) you don't like cannabis and (b) you don't trust yourself to be responsible around illegal drugs.

 

You think we are funtioning that well as a society with it?

 

Our town centres at night become no go zones due to the booze culture we have (I know as I partake in it), we have thousands of deaths on the road due to it, most domestic violence results from use of it. Untold people have criminal records because of actions that have committed on it.

 

As for cannabis being openly avaliable in just ten years I think you can tell the difference in Amsterdam to how much of a zomified shithole it has become now.

 

I'm not against it and I wouldnt try and stop someone smoking it, just seeing what it has done to some of the people I care about it's hard for me to justify legalising it.

...While this suggests that your stance is because you have seen cannabis damage people's lives, and consider it to have ruined Amsterdam.

 

As far as Amsterdam is concerned, cannabis has been legal there for all of my lifetime so it's hard to do a before-and-after. There are, I think, seven cities in Europe which are more dangerous than Amsterdam and none of them have such liberal laws on cannabis or prostitution, the latter of which makes it hard to pin anything on Amsterdam. On top of that, the drug trade is drawn to Amsterdam because of drug tourism, which obviously wouldn't be a problem if cannabis were to be decriminalised in more places. Crime in other parts of Holland where cannabis is decriminalised is much lower than the British average.

 

In Spain cannabis is partially decriminalised and the crime rate is massively lower than in the UK.

 

Now I wouldn't want to comment on your own personal experiences, but if your personal taste for drugs / lack of faith in yourself were to be a factor in your opinion, then I don't believe it should be. I'm of the opinion that people should be responsible for their own decisions in life. A kid of 7 can walk into McDonalds and buy two Happy Meals a day for a year, and obesity rates suggest that this is a bigger health concern than spotty students smoking pot. Now the student is old enough to make his mind up, the kid isn't. Even so, I wouldn't want to push for prohibition.

 

As for my experiences, well I knew a lot of people who smoked pot at school and I don't think it's destroyed any of them. One of them ended up in prison because of heroin addiction, but then again another chap I know nearly wound up in the same place because of coke (although he'd never touched a reefer in his life).

 

As a teacher we're advised not to tell teenagers how to live their lives, not unless we believe they have a problem. If I think a kid is smoking pot I tell them that (a) I don't want to know the precise details of what they get up to and (b) I'm not really supposed to dictate how they should live their lives; but I add that I wouldn't want to lecture them on sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll even if I could (I mean, they're hardly going to listen, are they?). I tell them they'll get a partner, grow up, have a few fun years at college and quickly get bored of it, but it's important that they learn how not to throw their lives away in the meantime. And, needless to say, it tends to turn out that way.

 

It sounds cruel, but the dropouts I see staggering around smacked out of their faces at 26 would have ended up like that regardless of whether they tried marijuana on the way or not.

 

Sorry if that went on a bit...

Edited 12 June 2013 by inckley fox

[Guest MattP]

Thats ok I found that a very good read and a pretty good argument for legalisation.

You are right as well on me. I wouldn't trust myself if some of the things mentioned were legal.

[ealingfox]

From a bbc article last year:

 

Cannabis rarely directly leads to death, but its estimated 2,800,000 users suffered an average of 16 associated deaths per year, which is 6 micromorts a year. The average of 766 heroin-related deaths a year comes out as 19,700 micromorts per year – 54 a day – but this will be an underestimate. 

But there are many other harmful effects apart from death: for example, it’s been estimated that smokers of cannabis are about 2.6 times more likely to have a psychotic-like experience than non-smokers. Apart from the risks of dependence and withdrawal, heroin users may get HIV or hepatitis from non-sterile needles, or abscesses and poisoning with contaminants. Not forgetting the standard effect of opiates on chronic constipation.

 

Risk status

So how can we compare the harms of different drugs, including legal ones such as alcohol and tobacco? A study published in 2010 looked at harms to users, such as mortality, damage to physical and mental health, dependence, and loss of resources and relationships, as well as harms to society, such as injury of others, crime, environmental damage, family adversities, international damage, economic cost and effects on the community. Each drug was scored on each dimension, the different harms weighted according to their judged importance and a total harm score calculated. 

The resulting ranking put alcohol at the top with 72, then heroin and crack cocaine at 55 and 54, tobacco was 6th at 26, and ecstasy almost at the bottom of the list with nine, in spite of it being a Class A drug in the UK. This was controversial, with one national UK tabloid newspaper proclaiming that the main author, Professor David Nutt, was a ‘dangerous man’.

Even more controversial than comparing illegal and legal drugs, is to compare illegal drugs with ‘wholesome’ activities.  Again it was Nutt, then head of the Advisory Council for the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD), who wrote a paper comparing ecstasy with ‘equasy’, the addiction to horse-riding, claiming that these were both voluntary leisure activities of young people, and of comparable dangers.  He did not stay as head of the ACMD for much longer.

 

So if there's anything that should be legal, it's ecstasy, and I agree because it's fvcking great.

[flowwolf]

You have got a point but there has to be a point where it's there problem and it shouldn't ruin it for people like me who enjoy the odd spliff and not only that i take alot of intrest into the different strains like the different brands of alcohol there is a whole culture behind cannabis that's get tarnished by hood rats thinking it's sick to smoke a zuggie init brav.

 

 

See what it's done to you ? guess not.

[flowwolf]

No idea, I've pretty much tried everything except Heroin at some point.

 

There are a couple of drugs I can think of that I'm very glad aren't widely available as I probably would go and have a bit more when I'm a bit down in the dumps. Dangerous for me with my addictive personality as well.

 

I'm not talking about Cannabis btw, trued it a few times but didn't really like it. Makes you smell as well as to be honest I have no idea why a grown man would still be using it.

 

Bloody hell Matt. Disappointed.

[Vlad the Fox]

No to legalising it.

ive been off it for 5 days now after years of use . my life was controlled by cannabis .i have paranoia , depression , and cost (£60/70 a week)destroying me , i also stayed in while my misses watched me smoke and she did nothing but watch telly . i have stopped coughing in the mornings , it must improve my health/mental health surely ? my sleep is poor but it will improve . 5 days is nothing i know but im gonna try hard to break this addiction . long way to go but it must be the rIght thing for me to do ?

You've got to quit at some point you don't want to be smoking it 20 years down the line and still be in the same position.

at least your are doing something about it. keep it up pal it must be the toughest addiction to quit especially if your an every day smoker

I used to smoke it regularly years ago with my mates and we'd discuss this subject often when stoned going over the same arguments in favour (Alcohol would never be legalised now in similar circumstances). Eventually we smoked it less and less as we left collage got jobs and started family's. We found better things to do with our money and left the grubby smokey bedsits behind and went out instead. Unfortunately a few of my friends didn't and its sad to say they are still in those bedsits making ends meet on minimum wage jobs looking half starved yet always stoned. I know others that cannabis set them on the road to more serious and harmful substances leading to a couple of deaths. Alcohol is bad and destroys life's but is too enshrined in society to ever be banned, but that is no argument for legalising cannabis. If anything it acts as a case study strengthening the argument against. Edited 14 June 2013 by Vlad the Fox

[Steven]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/jun/14/edifice-drugs-prohibition-crumbling

[Rincewind]

There is also the argument that if it is legalised at least we'd know where the dealers are. Those  good men sitting in the Houses Of Parliament. In effect they will have control on pricing and distribution.

[Guest]

There is also the argument that if it is legalised at least we'd know where the dealers are. Those good men sitting in the Houses Of Parliament. In effect they will have control on pricing and distribution.

And, like everything else, they can tax the living **** out of it!

[Vacamion]

I saw this and  'ed:

 

 

[Steven]

Legalising and taxing cannabis could 'help cut the deficit by £1.25bn', claims study

[Bryn]

Drugs debates are always tricky because at heart it's a matter of principle vs practicality.

 

The bottom line in terms of principle for me is that drugs, all of them including booze and fags, are bad things. They make people ill (please don't kid yourself that cannabis is "safe" just because it's safer than alcohol), they make people behave antisocially. And you know what, people who rely on substances to enjoy themselves are frequently incredibly boring and devoid of ambition.

 

For me, in an ideal world drugs would be criminalised as to say they are legal encourages these factors, in principle.

 

However, clearly criminalisation brings a myriad of problems with them and there is a solid argument to say that it fosters just as much antisocial behaviour and spawns a huge amount of criminal activity in itself. Humans have always consumed mind-altering substances and it seems unlikely to change. The financial argument is sound and similarly, if you know who is taking the drugs because it's legal, you  can put in place safeguards to minimise the health and social aspects.

Edited 15 September 2013 by Bryn

[Webbo]

Drugs debates are always tricky because at heart it's a matter of principle vs practicality.

 

The bottom line in terms of principle for me is that drugs, all of them including booze and fags, are bad things. They make people ill (please don't kid yourself that cannabis is "safe" just because it's safer than alcohol), they make people behave antisocially. And you know what, people who rely on substances to enjoy themselves are frequently incredibly boring and devoid of ambition.

 

For me, in an ideal world drugs would be criminalised as to say they are legal encourages these factors, in principle.

 

However, clearly criminalisation brings a myriad of problems with them and there is a solid argument to say that it fosters just as much antisocial behaviour and spawns a huge amount of criminal activity in itself. Humans have always consumed mind-altering substances and it seems unlikely to change. The financial argument is sound and similarly, if you know who is taking the drugs because it's legal, you  can put in place safeguards to minimise the health and social aspects.

Good post. The   principle vs practicality debate could also be the principle that in a free country people should be allowed to put anything they want in their own body,which I'm not unsympathetic to, versus the practicality of having to live amongst/treat people with mental problems and anti social behaviour. I side with pragmatism, though nobody with any intelligence can be a 100% certain about these things.

Edited 15 September 2013 by Webbo

[Rincewind]

My neighbour has 'friends' coming in every night till around 2am and I am sure they do drugs. He already has mental problems Scizo I heard. He is very easily lead. ATM he has no electric which I believe has been cut off. The thing is I don't know if the visitors are users or dealers. They sit on the step outside his door, fix the light timer switch and smoke. Even seen them through a spyhole them lighting some paper or something.

The thing is if it was legalised would they stay in their own homes instead of preying on some weak person to carry the blame if caught?

My new neighbour has said he has found needles in the garden which were likely thrown from the others window.

In some ways I want them done for it because they are breaking the law but then again if they want to do it and maybe kill themselves it is their choice. What I am annoyed about more is the damage done to our front entrance door.

Not bothered now. He is being found another place. When that is ready he will be given a week to get out. So just leaving them to it.

I don't know how he's survived. Medication for his condition, drugs, booze and smokes and permanently on the sick. Not a life I would want or be envious of.

[The God Emperor]

making drugs illegal has done nothing to stop people using them. all thats happened is now they are sold on the black market where there is no assurance of quality or safety of the product. legalise it and then the producers can be held accountable for a shoddy and unsafe produce, not that drugs themselves are particularly safe but they'd be alot less dangerous if they werent mixed with god knows what.

I'm in favour of legalising the lot, look at alcohol prohibition in the states to see why prohibition of any product doesnt work and causes more needless deaths.

[Steven]

Durham Chief Constable Mike Barton says UK has not learned the lessons from history over prohibition

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/give-addicts-heroin-on-the-nhs-to-stop-gangs-profiting-from-drugs-says-top-police-officer-8847357.html

[The God Emperor]

Durham Chief Constable Mike Barton says UK has not learned the lessons from history over prohibition

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/give-addicts-heroin-on-the-nhs-to-stop-gangs-profiting-from-drugs-says-top-police-officer-8847357.html

 

or instead of giving it out on the taxpayer's dime, legalise and allow it to be sold by private individuals and companies on the market so that it creates wealth and opportunity for people

[leicsmac]

or instead of giving it out on the taxpayer's dime, legalise and allow it to be sold by private individuals and companies on the market so that it creates wealth and opportunity for people

 

And couple this with a good amount of tax for massive increase in public coffers, along with paying for regulation to make sure the stuff is 'clean' and at least reasonably safe.

[The God Emperor]

And couple this with a good amount of tax for massive increase in public coffers, along with paying for regulation to make sure the stuff is 'clean' and at least reasonably safe.

will never happen though while the goddam gubbermint is still infested with moralists, communists and Zionist space lizards.