Raw Dykes Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 Its not about proof it is about belief, that is what makes it a religion. Maybe Large Al is right, maybe we have mis-diagnosed anti-theists as atheists, but in my eyes there are one in the same, an atheist does not believe in an as yet undiscovered or undefined god, or that they are wrong in not believing in anything, so they must believe there is no god. I think this is all semantics, really. Atheism and theism talk about beliefs. Gnosticism and agnosticism talk about knowledge. Anti-theists are atheists, but not all atheists are necessarily anti-theists. Really, everybody is agnostic if we're talking about an unfalsifiable god. I'm an agnostic atheist. They're not mutually exclusive. You're still not grasping the difference between not accepting something, and accepting the opposite of something. The reason we use guilty and not guilty in court is because we're not asking the jury to decide whether the defendant is innocent or guilty, but only if they find him/her guilty, or that they cannot be convinced that he/she is guilty. That is not the same thing as finding him/her innocent. The default position on a truth claim is to not accept, until evidence is presented in favour of that claim. To not accept a claim is not the same as accepting the opposite of the claim to be true.
Captain... Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 Ok, I will concede, and I want to get back to the cricket, atheism is not a religion, but some people do portray their views in a very similar way to those that are extremely religious, it can be cultish, and people can be very devout and fervent in their views, and these people piss me off, but most atheists just ignore the whole thing, except when stoned or stimulated by debate, and just get on merrily with their lives. Antitheism, is no different to a religion in it's belief, and some atheists should really be classed antitheists, and these people are no different to theists, and should stop giving atheists a bad name. anyway it was a fun little debate, xx
Zingari Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 Ok, I will concede, and I want to get back to the cricket, atheism is not a religion, but some people do portray their views in a very similar way to those that are extremely religious, it can be cultish, and people can be very devout and fervent in their views, and these people piss me off, but most atheists just ignore the whole thing, except when stoned or stimulated by debate, and just get on merrily with their lives. Antitheism, is no different to a religion in it's belief, and some atheists should really be classed antitheists, and these people are no different to theists, and should stop giving atheists a bad name. anyway it was a fun little debate, xx Personally i'd concede that point and yes, these debates can be fun
21st Century Fox Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 I can't remember if I've already posted this in this thread, but I don't care.
Rincewind Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 We are also told stories about the tooth fairy and the bogey man when young. Also Bible stories I see little difference. They are ancient tales told by grown ups in order to frighten young people in behaving and follow rules. I have grown out of all this and as an adult can make my own decisions. Which is why I have no personal objections to gay marriage. Why should I? If I was brought up in a strict religious background I may be against. Not for any logical reason but because the 'scriptures' say it is wrong. I am lucky enough to have had an upbringing that allowed me more free will and able to reason things out for myself. I can work out that to impose rules or follow them that are over 2000 years old is not the best thing for the 21st century. If you object to gay relationships because the Bible says it wrong do you approve of wife beating, slavery and stoning people to death. These actions are given the thumbs up in the Bible as God approved.
ADK Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 I am 100% certain that all current religions are complete bullshit when it comes to facts. Atheism isn't a religion, it's the belief there is no god. Some religions are atheist, monotheist or polytheist. I don't belong to a religion and i don't believe in gods anymore than unicorns and ghosts.
Rincewind Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 If anything I veer towards Seccularism or a Humanist. But I cannot put those down on forms and I don't want to be drawn into a cult. I believe Man has the capabilty to have values respect and be decent human beings without the need of a religion, holy book or religious leaders wanting to determine how we should live our life. I am not anti-religion, I know good people who are religious but I do not think of them as good religios people but just good people. They do a lot of good for the community and join together with people of other faiths to help. I just think the right to love who you wish should be based on common sense, reason and the choice of the couple invoved not by words in a n ancient bpook interpretted for their own benefit.
Zingari Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 But enough about Nuns - what do you think about gays? boom boom
Guest MattP Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 Have to say I'm surprised at the vote here, thought gay marriage support would be up around 90-95% in this day and age.
FuriousFox46 Posted 16 August 2012 Author Posted 16 August 2012 Have to say I'm surprised at the vote here, thought gay marriage support would be up around 90-95% in this day and age. This is a male-dominated forum though to be fair. Support from same-sex marriage is notoriously higher among women
Guest MattP Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 This is a male-dominated forum though to be fair. Support from same-sex marriage is notoriously higher among women I bet, same way I'd imagine male support for watching two lesbians in action would be higher than watching Elton John and his boyfriend going at it.
AdamN Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 Have to say I'm surprised at the vote here, thought gay marriage support would be up around 90-95% in this day and age. Too many people still feel the need to pry into others' business as if it somehow affects their own life. This is a male-dominated forum though to be fair. Support from same-sex marriage is notoriously higher among women The irony being that a lot of those men opposed to gay marriage probably enjoy jacking off to lesbian porn on a regular basis.
FuriousFox46 Posted 16 August 2012 Author Posted 16 August 2012 I bet, same way I'd imagine male support for watching two lesbians in action would be higher than watching Elton John and his boyfriend going at it. I think everyone would rather see that
21st Century Fox Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 Too many people still feel the need to pry into others' business as if it somehow affects their own life. It’s a complicated country, people get angry. Everybody hates gay people- I’ve never understood anger towards gay people because a person being gay doesn’t affect your life, so it’s weird to me that people are just, like, they’re in their homes “Eugh, people are gay! Damnit!†What do you care? I can understand hating gay people say if you’re, like, you’re mowing your lawn and two guys are blowing each other right on the grass and you’re like “Aw, I gotta cut around you faggots every Sunday, I’m sick of this shit!†Or say you’re eating your breakfast in the morning and you’re about to put your spoon in the cereal bowl and two guys touch dicks right in front of you, “Hey, come on! I gotta get to work, I don’t have time to dodge your dicks with my spoon!†-Louis CK
Guest MattP Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 It’s a complicated country, people get angry. Everybody hates gay people- I’ve never understood anger towards gay people because a person being gay doesn’t affect your life†Usually yes, can't say I was too impressed when walking to walk about 8 years back I had to dodge through blokes wandering down the street with nipple clamps on expressing their "pride". It's a shame that minority gives the rest of them a bad name. But I agree with that quote in the main, they should be allowed to do what they want.
FuriousFox46 Posted 16 August 2012 Author Posted 16 August 2012 Usually yes, can't say I was too impressed when walking to walk about 8 years back I had to dodge through blokes wandering down the street with nipple clamps on expressing their "pride". It's a shame that minority gives the rest of them a bad name. But I agree with that quote in the main, they should be allowed to do what they want. Some people think everything is their business. It's just a stupid spiteful attitude.
FantasticMrFox Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 Being this honest is very admirable at the end of the day it's a new concept it will take some getting used to. There's a great YouTube clip of a gay married couple talking to I say a 6 year old about how thery are "husband and husband" the kid laughs and tells them that's it's funny and that they can still play if they want too. It's really adorable to see it from a child's perspective showing no prejudice no pre thought homophobia or religious indoctrination just a young kid who has no issue with two husbands. Everyone should be seen as equal not in someone's "gods" eyes but us as human beings and until we learn to accept people as equals we never will move on. I've noticed this too with my kids when it comes down to issues of race, colour, disablement etc etc. They don't judge anything "different" as a problem and it just goes to prove that prejudice is taught. Why shouldn't people be allowed to be happy in their own "skin"?....
Zingari Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 I've noticed this too with my kids when it comes down to issues of race, colour, disablement etc etc. They don't judge anything "different" as a problem and it just goes to prove that prejudice is taught. Why shouldn't people be allowed to be happy in their own "skin"?.... Definitely , young kids seem far less racist/homophobic etc and less prone to hold the bigoted views that were very common in my generation
Rincewind Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 That was my point in a previous post. We are all born atheists, non-predjudic/homophobic/ etc etc. Left to our own devices the'd be more tolorance. But there are too many influences, Churches on every corner indoctrination of teachings views beliefs and phobias. Your whole life and how you live it, your views can be influenced by the people around you family friends school . If a child is told daily from birth that all homosexuals are evil at five years old they'll be helping to holding a banner and throwing stones at a protest march.
FuriousFox46 Posted 16 August 2012 Author Posted 16 August 2012 That was my point in a previous post. We are all born atheists, non-predjudic/homophobic/ etc etc. Left to our own devices the'd be more tolorance. But there are too many influences, Churches on every corner indoctrination of teachings views beliefs and phobias. Your whole life and how you live it, your views can be influenced by the people around you family friends school . If a child is told daily from birth that all homosexuals are evil at five years old they'll be helping to holding a banner and throwing stones at a protest march. Ah! So you're familiar with the Westboro Baptist Church then?
Captain... Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 It’s a complicated country, people get angry. Everybody hates gay people- I’ve never understood anger towards gay people because a person being gay doesn’t affect your life, so it’s weird to me that people are just, like, they’re in their homes “Eugh, people are gay! Damnit!†What do you care? I can understand hating gay people say if you’re, like, you’re mowing your lawn and two guys are blowing each other right on the grass and you’re like “Aw, I gotta cut around you faggots every Sunday, I’m sick of this shit!†Or say you’re eating your breakfast in the morning and you’re about to put your spoon in the cereal bowl and two guys touch dicks right in front of you, “Hey, come on! I gotta get to work, I don’t have time to dodge your dicks with my spoon!†-Louis CK But isn't that also true of straight couples, I don't particularly want to watch anyone having sex over my Tesco's basic fruit and fibre.
Rincewind Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 But the objection would be that they were doing it in front of you not simply that they were doing it. If they did it in their own kitchent here would be no protest but if a same sex couple did it in their own kitchen there would be cries of 'Sinners, go to Hell and burn forever in agony. My loving God told me to say that. and I always do what he says'
Zingari Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 But isn't that also true of straight couples, I don't particularly want to watch anyone having sex over my Tesco's basic fruit and fibre. Yuk , that really is a disgusting thought! How about a bacon sandwich instead ?
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