Same-sex marriage

[Captain...]

Well I have free will and I choose not to join a religious cult.

You mean apart from supporting a football team and your fervent atheism, atheism is a religion just like any other, in believing there is no god your beliefs are no different than believing there is a god, there is no actual evidence either way (well technically there is lots of evidence in support of their being a god, it is just not reliable).

This is the thing about free will, you are free to choose which pre-determined path you are going to walk down, the question is, is there more than one path or not?

[Apollo]

You mean apart from supporting a football team and your fervent atheism, atheism is a religion just like any other, in believing there is no god your beliefs are no different than believing there is a god, there is no actual evidence either way (well technically there is lots of evidence in support of their being a god, it is just not reliable).

This is the thing about free will, you are free to choose which pre-determined path you are going to walk down, the question is, is there more than one path or not?

Atheism isn't a religion at all, it is the absence of any beliefs.

[Rincewind]

Which of the 3000 gods do I not believe in then? Atheism is not a religion. How many of the Gods does a Christian, Jew, Muslim or any of the thousands of other types believe in? I just believe in one less god than these people.

We are all born atheeists. We can follow the path set down by the the community or family environment we were raised in or we can ask questions and make up our own mind. The same applies to football BTW. We can support Leicester or we can support a decent team. Or we can not follow football at all. It is our choice. I choose scienctific evidence over 'God did it' as an answer every time.

If you do not know the answer, don't research it just say 'God did it' Saves all the effort and brain power.

[Captain...]

Atheism isn't a religion at all, it is the absence of any beliefs.

No it isn't, it is the belief that there is no god, it is a firm and solid belief that god doesn't exist, often as fervent and fanatical as followers of other religions.

Agnostics are closer to having an absence of beliefs, in that they believe nothing but question everything, whereas nihilism is more about having an absence of beliefs.

[Captain...]

Which of the 3000 gods do I not believe in then? Atheism is not a religion. How many of the Gods does a Christian, Jew, Muslim or any of the thousands of other types believe in? I just believe in one less god than these people.

We are all born atheeists. We can follow the path set down by the the community or family environment we were raised in or we can ask questions and make up our own mind. The same applies to football BTW. We can support Leicester or we can support a decent team. Or we can not follow football at all. It is our choice. I choose scienctific evidence over 'God did it' as an answer every time.

If you do not know the answer, don't research it just say 'God did it' Saves all the effort and brain power.

Richard Dawkins is the atheists' prohpet, or pope, or god, depending on how far you want to take it. You believe there is no God, you don't know that, nobody does, and nobody can, that is the point of faith, you are putting your faith in there being no God.

Your comment about the 3000 gods you don't believe in, actually supports my theory, most religions don't believe in the majority of them either.

Simple test:

Do you believe the Christian God exists?

Do you believe Allah exists?

Do you believe Vishnu exists?

Do you believe Satan exists?

Do believe there is no god?

If you answered yes or no to any of those questions you have faith and a belief in something, because these are things that we cannot prove either way.

[Rincewind]

I am devoid of a belief of a god. It is not based on faith, fear or from a single book but on what I have learnt about evolution cosmology geology other sciences and concluded through reason and logic.

An Eskimo was speaking to a missionary. He said, now that you have taught me everything about God, The Bible and Heaven and Hell will I go to Hell if I commit adultry?

The missionary said, yes you will if you do not follow God's word.'

The Eskimo then said, 'Then why tell me?'

[Captain...]

I am devoid of a belief of a god. It is not based on faith, fear or from a single book but on what I have learnt about evolution cosmology geology other sciences and concluded through reason and logic.

An Eskimo was speaking to a missionary. He said, now that you have taught me everything about God, The Bible and Heaven and Hell will I go to Hell if I commit adultry?

The missionary said, yes you will if you do not follow God's word.'

The Eskimo then said, 'Then why tell me?'

Nice story, but you do not believe in Hell, so make your choices around the belief there is no Hell, can you prove either way there is or isn't a Hell, or an afterlife? it is no different, you believe in science instead of the bible, but you do not understand science, you have not for yourself conducted the experiments, the results of which you believe, that is faith, faith in science and the prophets of science and in the church of science, with its rules and regulations to ensure that science cannot be corrupted.

I am not trying to convince you to join a religion, you are already part of one, and one that is much more rational and logical and believable than all the rest (except Buddhism) but it is still a religion, even if you think of it as an anti-religion, it is still a cult and has a big following of many devout worshippers.

[Zingari]

Atheism can be classed as a religion in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby .

[Raw Dykes]

No it isn't, it is the belief that there is no god, it is a firm and solid belief that god doesn't exist, often as fervent and fanatical as followers of other religions.

Agnostics are closer to having an absence of beliefs, in that they believe nothing but question everything, whereas nihilism is more about having an absence of beliefs.

Cap Shrap, I think you're a bit confused. That is not what atheism is. Atheism is a lack of a belief in god, NOT a belief that no god exists. There is nothing "fervent or fanatical" in the slightest about saying, "I don't believe you."

Agnostic is a pretty redundant word, really. Agnosticism deals with what we know, and since no-one can know whether an unfalsifiable thing exists, then everyone and everything is agnostic.

Richard Dawkins is the atheists' prohpet, or pope, or god, depending on how far you want to take it. You believe there is no God, you don't know that, nobody does, and nobody can, that is the point of faith, you are putting your faith in there being no God.

Your comment about the 3000 gods you don't believe in, actually supports my theory, most religions don't believe in the majority of them either.

Simple test:

Do you believe the Christian God exists?

Do you believe Allah exists?

Do you believe Vishnu exists?

Do you believe Satan exists?

Do believe there is no god?

If you answered yes or no to any of those questions you have faith and a belief in something, because these are things that we cannot prove either way.

Bollocks is Richard Dawkins the prophet, or pope, or god of atheism! Are you on the wind up? Atheism is NOT a religion. There is no dogma, no tenets, no doctrine, no institution, nothing. It's just the position of not accepting to be true the claims made about the existence of a supernatural god. Really, I find it a bit embarrassing that the word atheism needs to exist. There's no common word for someone who doesn't believe in Father Christmas, fairies, the Loch Ness monster or Bigfoot.

I repeat, there is no amount of faith needed to say, "I don't believe you."

Nice story, but you do not believe in Hell, so make your choices around the belief there is no Hell, can you prove either way there is or isn't a Hell, or an afterlife? it is no different, you believe in science instead of the bible, but you do not understand science, you have not for yourself conducted the experiments, the results of which you believe, that is faith, faith in science and the prophets of science and in the church of science, with its rules and regulations to ensure that science cannot be corrupted.

I am not trying to convince you to join a religion, you are already part of one, and one that is much more rational and logical and believable than all the rest (except Buddhism) but it is still a religion, even if you think of it as an anti-religion, it is still a cult and has a big following of many devout worshippers.

Atheists are not part of any religion. It is not a cult, it has no "following" and there are no devout worshippers. Devout worshippers?! How the hell are you meant to be devoted to divine worship of something you don't think exists?

I'm very surprised at these comments.

[RumbleFox]

Hi there everyone. Of course I support same sex marriages, anyone who does not should be asked to leave the site!

Now, onto the actual debate here. Captain Shrapnel, I like your posts and you are one of the few members on here who has genuinely made me laugh but I think you are very wrong here. Atheism is not a religion it is the absence of a belief. I firmly think there is not God based on the evidence I have been presented with so I class myself as an Atheist. If evidence in favour of a God came to light I would change my viewpoint. I do not personally like the term atheist as I do not see why I should have to class myself as a term simply for my non-belief in something but it is certainly not a religion. It is not based on doctrine.

By your reckoning if one does not believe in Bigfoot then one could be perceived as having a belief in some way? By none believing you are not making an active leap of faith based on doctrine you are simply choosing not to believe something which you are told. As many have said before, the burden of proof is not with me, it is with the religious and I do not class atheism as a religion. Of course some people go over the top with the atheism thing but the atheism is certainly not a religion. I think your understanding of the term may be slightly wrong. To me it is defined as “I very strongly think that there is no God†it does not mean “I know there is no Godâ€. No one can truly know anything.

Anyway, interesting topic and I still love you.

X

[Captain...]

Cap Shrap, I think you're a bit confused. That is not what atheism is. Atheism is a lack of a belief in god, NOT a belief that no god exists. There is nothing "fervent or fanatical" in the slightest about saying, "I don't believe you."

Agnostic is a pretty redundant word, really. Agnosticism deals with what we know, and since no-one can know whether an unfalsifiable thing exists, then everyone and everything is agnostic.

Bollocks is Richard Dawkins the prophet, or pope, or god of atheism! Are you on the wind up? Atheism is NOT a religion. There is no dogma, no tenets, no doctrine, no institution, nothing. It's just the position of not accepting to be true the claims made about the existence of a supernatural god. Really, I find it a bit embarrassing that the word atheism needs to exist. There's no common word for someone who doesn't believe in Father Christmas, fairies, the Loch Ness monster or Bigfoot.

I repeat, there is no amount of faith needed to say, "I don't believe you."

Atheists are not part of any religion. It is not a cult, it has no "following" and there are no devout worshippers. Devout worshippers?! How the hell are you meant to be devoted to divine worship of something you don't think exists?

I'm very surprised at these comments.

If you had seen the number of anti religion pictures nightguard posted in the phunny pictures thread, you might understand about fervent dedicated followers, atheism is not the the rejection of all current religions it is a belief there is no god of any sort what so ever.

It is not saying I don't believe you, it is saying I believe something different to you and that you are wrong and I am right (which is true of all religions).

Not every atheist is like that, in the same way not every Christian is trying to convert all the non believers the whole time. Agnosticism is the questioning of other religions, including atheism, it is also a sort of religious stance, but without anything to actually stand on.

@ Zingari, not collecting stamps is a hobby if you go out of your way to make sure that you do anything but collect stamps and make sure everyone knows you are not collecting stamps, and regularly talk about how wrong those that do collect stamps are.

[The Doctor]

No it isn't, it is the belief that there is no god, it is a firm and solid belief that god doesn't exist, often as fervent and fanatical as followers of other religions.

Agnostics are closer to having an absence of beliefs, in that they believe nothing but question everything, whereas nihilism is more about having an absence of beliefs.

Why do people make me use this?

Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, lack of belief is not the same as belief there is no God. What you describe is anti-theism.

[Zingari]

If you had seen the number of anti religion pictures nightguard posted in the phunny pictures thread, you might understand about fervent dedicated followers, atheism is not the the rejection of all current religions it is a belief there is no god of any sort what so ever.

It is not saying I don't believe you, it is saying I believe something different to you and that you are wrong and I am right (which is true of all religions).

Not every atheist is like that, in the same way not every Christian is trying to convert all the non believers the whole time. Agnosticism is the questioning of other religions, including atheism, it is also a sort of religious stance, but without anything to actually stand on.

@ Zingari, not collecting stamps is a hobby if you go out of your way to make sure that you do anything but collect stamps and make sure everyone knows you are not collecting stamps, and regularly talk about how wrong those that do collect stamps are.

You've made that sound like an interesting proposition , Thanks I think I might take it up

What should we call it ? How about Philately-Schmilately ?

[Captain...]

Hi there everyone. Of course I support same sex marriages, anyone who does not should be asked to leave the site!

Now, onto the actual debate here. Captain Shrapnel, I like your posts and you are one of the few members on here who has genuinely made me laugh but I think you are very wrong here. Atheism is not a religion it is the absence of a belief. I firmly think there is not God based on the evidence I have been presented with so I class myself as an Atheist. If evidence in favour of a God came to light I would change my viewpoint. I do not personally like the term atheist as I do not see why I should have to class myself as a term simply for my non-belief in something but it is certainly not a religion. It is not based on doctrine.

By your reckoning if one does not believe in Bigfoot then one could be perceived as having a belief in some way? By none believing you are not making an active leap of faith based on doctrine you are simply choosing not to believe something which you are told. As many have said before, the burden of proof is not with me, it is with the religious and I do not class atheism as a religion. Of course some people go over the top with the atheism thing but the atheism is certainly not a religion. I think your understanding of the term may be slightly wrong. To me it is defined as “I very strongly think that there is no God†it does not mean “I know there is no Godâ€. No one can truly know anything.

Anyway, interesting topic and I still love you.

X

Love you too (you make Rumble Fox laugh out loud once and he will follow you forever), but if you don't think that there is a god, then you are not really an atheist, the fact that you can't come out and say that there is no god means you are not a true atheist, of course like any religion atheism has gradations of belief, some people believe it because that was how they were brought up and have never really had their faith tested, others believe it because it makes the most sense out of all of the explanations, and is in all religions you have fanatics who try and convert everyone to their way of thinking and get quite militant about it, and will swear that there is no god, despite the inability to prove otherwise.

As for Father Christmas you can prove that is not true, in the sense no fat man comes down your chimney and leaves present, so in that sense it is not a belief it is fact, I don't think that there is no Father Christmas, I know, I checked, it was my Dad and he was drunk.

[Zingari]

So if no-one can prove if god exists or not , does it not mean we are all agnostics with varying degrees of belief or disbelief ?

[The Doctor]

Really, I find it a bit embarrassing that the word atheism needs to exist. There's no common word for someone who doesn't believe in Father Christmas, fairies, the Loch Ness monster or Bigfoot.

Ah, De Grasse - I'll say the same thing as to his agolfer: entire legal systems haven't been set up on the "words" of the loch Ness monster, those who believe in other monsters or none at all haven't been persecuted by believers in the loch ness monster, belief in the loch ness monster hasn't been considered mandatory...

[Captain...]

Why do people make me use this?

Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, lack of belief is not the same as belief there is no God. What you describe is anti-theism.

Ok so a question to the atheists:

Do you believe there is no god, none, nothing what so ever beyond what we have physically discovered and know, and that stuff we don't really know yet but have a scientific theory for?

Or do you believe there may be a god?

[Raw Dykes]

If you had seen the number of anti religion pictures nightguard posted in the phunny pictures thread, you might understand about fervent dedicated followers, atheism is not the the rejection of all current religions it is a belief there is no god of any sort what so ever.

The word follower is misleading. It's not possible to follow a position on a truth claim, and that is all atheism is. A lot of atheists do happen to believe that no god exists, but that is not what makes them atheists. The simple fact that they do not accept the claims that a god does exist is what makes them atheist.

You are right that atheism is not the rejection of all current religions, however. Buddhists are atheist, as are Raelians.

It is not saying I don't believe you, it is saying I believe something different to you and that you are wrong and I am right (which is true of all religions).

When the claim made (god exists in this case) has no evidence to back it up, then the rational response is to disbelieve it. This is why no faith is needed to be an atheist. This is why atheism is not a religion or cult.

There is a big difference between the lack of a belief in god, and the belief that no god exists. It's like guilty or not guilty, rather than guilty or innocent.

Not every atheist is like that, in the same way not every Christian is trying to convert all the non believers the whole time. Agnosticism is the questioning of other religions, including atheism, it is also a sort of religious stance, but without anything to actually stand on.

Everybody is agnostic. Atheists are agnostic. Theists are agnostic. It is impossible to know whether an unfalsifiable god exists, so everyone is, whether they think they are or not. Could you stop calling atheism a religion? Imagine a world where religion doesn't exist. In that world, everyone is atheist.

@ Zingari, not collecting stamps is a hobby if you go out of your way to make sure that you do anything but collect stamps and make sure everyone knows you are not collecting stamps, and regularly talk about how wrong those that do collect stamps are.

Zingari is right. Atheism is as much a religion as bald is a hair colour.

I don't think people talking about a certain topic a lot makes it any more a religion. There are atheists that never talk about it. There are people who are obsessed with Bigfoot or conspiracy theories. Doesn't make it a religion.

[Captain...]

So if no-one can prove if god exists or not , does it not mean we are all agnostics with varying degrees of belief or disbelief ?

Its not about proof it is about belief, that is what makes it a religion.

Maybe Large Al is right, maybe we have mis-diagnosed anti-theists as atheists, but in my eyes there are one in the same, an atheist does not believe in an as yet undiscovered or undefined god, or that they are wrong in not believing in anything, so they must believe there is no god.

[Leicester_Loyal]

I voted no just for the hell of it . I really don't care about homosexual issues or homosexuals for that matter. 28 pages later and what have we found out ? Are people supposed to feel guilty because they find homosexuality repugnant ? if so there are an awful lot of guilty people out there. It never ceases to amaze me how some Homosexual people think the world revolves around their sexuality when in reality no one gives a toss.

And before anyone starts on a" your a homophobic" rant at me the last thing I would judge anyone on is their sexuality it just does not matter.

Spot on.

[Raw Dykes]

Ok so a question to the atheists:

Do you believe there is no god, none, nothing what so ever beyond what we have physically discovered and know, and that stuff we don't really know yet but have a scientific theory for?

Or do you believe there may be a god?

I believe that there could be a god, but that it would be extremely unlikely. I am pretty certain that no religion on Earth has ever got it right, and if any have, then it can only be one of them. If that's the case, I hope it's Norse mythology, because Thor is a really cool megadude.

I'm as much an atheist as someone who says there certainly is no god, or someone who says the existence of a god is very likely, but that they are not willing to accept it to be true until there is evidence presented.

[RumbleFox]

Love you too (you make Rumble Fox laugh out loud once and he will follow you forever), but if you don't think that there is a god, then you are not really an atheist, the fact that you can't come out and say that there is no god means you are not a true atheist, of course like any religion atheism has gradations of belief, some people believe it because that was how they were brought up and have never really had their faith tested, others believe it because it makes the most sense out of all of the explanations, and is in all religions you have fanatics who try and convert everyone to their way of thinking and get quite militant about it, and will swear that there is no god, despite the inability to prove otherwise.

As for Father Christmas you can prove that is not true, in the sense no fat man comes down your chimney and leaves present, so in that sense it is not a belief it is fact, I don't think that there is no Father Christmas, I know, I checked, it was my Dad and he was drunk.

I will always love you.

To be an atheist means that you have a lack of a belief in God. That does not mean you KNOW there is no God and it certainly does not mean you are Agnostic to say you firmly belive but would change your mind if presented with evidence. I feel you are a little muddled but I see where you are coming from and you make well informed, well crafted arguments it is just that you are wrong ont his account. The lack of a belief is not the same as a belief. The burden of proof (I have said it again and it is a cliche but oh well) is not with the Atheist. We did not form a society based on thge fact we one day thought there was no God. People came to us, told us there was a God and we said "I do not believe there is". Surely you must see that that is not a religion?

Love you though.

X

[Captain...]

The word follower is misleading. It's not possible to follow a position on a truth claim, and that is all atheism is. A lot of atheists do happen to believe that no god exists, but that is not what makes them atheists. The simple fact that they do not accept the claims that a god does exist is what makes them atheist.

You are right that atheism is not the rejection of all current religions, however. Buddhists are atheist, as are Raelians.

When the claim made (god exists in this case) has no evidence to back it up, then the rational response is to disbelieve it. This is why no faith is needed to be an atheist. This is why atheism is not a religion or cult.

There is a big difference between the lack of a belief in god, and the belief that no god exists. It's like guilty or not guilty, rather than guilty or innocent.

Everybody is agnostic. Atheists are agnostic. Theists are agnostic. It is impossible to know whether an unfalsifiable god exists, so everyone is, whether they think they are or not. Could you stop calling atheism a religion? Imagine a world where religion doesn't exist. In that world, everyone is atheist.

Zingari is right. Atheism is as much a religion as bald is a hair colour.

I don't think people talking about a certain topic a lot makes it any more a religion. There are atheists that never talk about it. There are people who are obsessed with Bigfoot or conspiracy theories. Doesn't make it a religion.

a lot of sense in there, but I will disagree with some points, not all atheists are agnostics, some have very strong belief, almost fanatical in there not being a god, they are not agnostic, they have belief.

"Atheism is as much a religion as bald is a hair colour." - did you get that off google by any chance?

People who obsess over Bigfoot or aliens demonstrate many of the traits of cultish and religious behaviour, belief in the face of fact as do those who do so over atheism.

So do you believe there are no gods?

[I am Rod Hull]

Religion is more of a set of rules to live by than some sort of supernatural thing.

Napoleon knew is stuff.

[The Doctor]

Ok so a question to the atheists:

Do you believe there is no god, none, nothing what so ever beyond what we have physically discovered and know, and that stuff we don't really know yet but have a scientific theory for?

Or do you believe there may be a god?

I don't believe there is a God, for the simple reason that there is no real evidence as to the existence of a deity.

I wouldn't be so foolish as to rule it out - in reality we know very little about the universe as it is now, even less so 14.5 billion years ago - but, as with everything else, until evidence of existence is provided, assumption of non-existence is the correct stance to take.

Basically, there may be a god or gods, but there's nothing yet to support that hypothesis (and if deism is correct, there never will be) then rejecting it is a perfectly sensible stance.