White girls fair game - differing views.

[Guest BlueBrett]

It's a very difficult one as I agree that these men targeted a specific type of young girl due to their belief that they would likely have more success but I don't believe it was racially motivated in this instance. Most predatory groups of men in this country are White middle aged men and they also seek a certain type of girl who can be influenced by different factors.

Not true,

Also just because these men didn't necessarily prey on the girls because of the colour of their skin doesn't mean this isn't a race issue. You have to also look at the communities these men grew up and live in and the attitudes towards women, white people and westernism that were likely prevalent. If the cultural influences they experienced growing up made them more likely to do something like this then this case is inescapably related to race.

[1964FOX]

Not true,

Also just because these men didn't necessarily prey on the girls because of the colour of their skin doesn't mean this isn't a race issue. You have to also look at the communities these men grew up and live in and the attitudes towards women, white people and westernism that were likely prevalent. If the cultural influences they experienced growing up made them more likely to do something like this then this case is inescapably related to race.

I have to disagree with you it is true.

[Rincewind]

I hope that isn't aimed at me?

Nobody in particular. Just saying Asia is a big place that also includes China and other countries. So to say 'Asians' prey on white girls is wrong.

The media are worst for doing this type of stereotyping.

[Guest MattP]

Are you right wing?

Stephen Lawrence was attacked because of the colour of his skin. That is irrelevant when we talk about the perpertrators - if they were white, black, chinese asian, Indian asian - they are thugs and would deserve to be treated the same. You bring racism into the equation with your attitude. My attitude ignores colour and condemns whatever the colour.

However you've missed my point regarding this discussion. All colours of men are attracted to all colours of girls - sure some men prefer some type of girl but that's irrelevant to the general siuation. You get sickos from every colour.

I'm neither right or left, I find the whole pigeon hole politics being divided into two groups as ridiculous.

The colour of the skin was totally relevant to the perptrators in that case as that's what made it a racial attack, I really find it difficult whats so hard to understand about that, these people actively seeked out white girls that's what includes race into the crime.

Virtually every public spokesman inside this case from the Judge to members of the Islamic Community have agreed with what me, Warsi and Phillips are saying, how can you honestly see fit to go against that, what experience of these situations do you have?

[MooseBreath]

White paedophile groups are made up of individuals who don't know each other working in a network. They are secretive and discrete because they know what they are doing is morally wrong.

These pakistani groups on the other hand, engage in this behaviour openly, amongst groups including brothers, uncles and best friends. Their peers, in other words. They have no need to be secretive, because they and their peers exist in a community that genuinely thinks that drugging and raping 11-year-old girls is ok, as long as the girls are white.

That's the distinction. It's plainly obvious, and has been ignored in the past with devestating consequences. Lets hope it doesn't get brushed under the carpet again.

[Guest]

Obviously. But there is less chance of a majority being swayed by so called culture. Besides, the more people you try to spread a given culture over the more dilute it becomes. The danger is naturally more salient in minorities.

I disagree.

I think that it's easy to spot the neagative influences in a minority culture because they are not "yours" - as in the majorities. However the negative influences of the Majority culture are insidious, we don't see them because they are ours.

Relating to sex we accept that a girl of 16 can have sex - in some other cultures this would be seen as obscene.

We don't differentiate from a girl who has the mental age of 12 and the mental age of an "adult". We just go with the birthdate. Isn't that dangerous? Do you get what I'm saying?

[Guest MattP]

Nobody in particular. Just saying Asia is a big place that also includes China and other countries. So to say 'Asians' prey on white girls is wrong.

The media are worst for doing this type of stereotyping.

This has already be brought up by a few Hindu and Sikh groups who have complained to various news organisations about being lumped in with this. It's extremely unfair on them, again though the media are far more scared of offending the Islamic community in any way shape or form than giving a fair shout to anybody else.

[Guest MattP]

White paedophile groups are made up of individuals who don't know each other working in a network. They are secretive and discrete because they know what they are doing is morally wrong.

These pakistani groups on the other hand, engage in this behaviour openly, amongst groups including brothers, uncles and best friends. Their peers, in other words. They have no need to be secretive, because they and their peers exist in a community that genuinely thinks that drugging and raping 11-year-old girls is ok, as long as the girls are white.

That's the distinction. It's plainly obvious, and has been ignored in the past with devestating consequences. Lets hope it doesn't get brushed under the carpet again.

and yet some (it mainly seems white people bizarrly) are still trying to do just that.

[Guest]

Not true,

Also just because these men didn't necessarily prey on the girls because of the colour of their skin doesn't mean this isn't a race issue. You have to also look at the communities these men grew up and live in and the attitudes towards women, white people and westernism that were likely prevalent. If the cultural influences they experienced growing up made them more likely to do something like this then this case is inescapably related to race.

Have you any evidence to support these claims?

[Guest]

Nobody in particular. Just saying Asia is a big place that also includes China and other countries. So to say 'Asians' prey on white girls is wrong.

The media are worst for doing this type of stereotyping.

Fair enough.

I think I tried to point out that China and India were both in Asia and ridicule this notion. So I agree with your point.

[Zingari]

Let’s for a moment turn this discussion on its head and be critical of the parents and families of the young white girls.

Would it be racist to suggest that there is a culture among certain groups of lower class white families on council estates to be bad parents and uncaring families ?

I don’t think it would be considered racist to be critical of this particular group.

I’m not suggesting that these families are to blame, merely asking if it would be racist to be critical of them.

For what it's worth, I'm tending to agree more with Farsi , and believe that we as a society have to pussyfoot around too much to avoid offence .

[Guest]

I'm neither right or left, I find the whole pigeon hole politics being divided into two groups as ridiculous.

The colour of the skin was totally relevant to the perptrators in that case as that's what made it a racial attack, I really find it difficult whats so hard to understand about that, these people actively seeked out white girls that's what includes race into the crime.

Virtually every public spokesman inside this case from the Judge to members of the Islamic Community have agreed with what me, Warsi and Phillips are saying, how can you honestly see fit to go against that, what experience of these situations do you have?

Well you're talking about one case. I'm talking about Paedophilia in general. The thread didn't really lead me to believe that we should just discuss this case.

If you want to be case specific. Who was it that decided "white" was the criteria? Did this group go with that as it's first premise or did they think what young girsl can we fool into this situation? Being as Pakistanis are , generally, muslim. the pakistani girls are less likely to drink to excess and "white" girls culture has made it out to be grown up and clever to drink to access.

Is there any proof that this group of men wouldn't have targetted eastern euopean immigrants (or nubile North African Girls) if they knew some and could have easily groomed them?

I don't think race was the deciding factor.

[Guest MattP]

Let’s for a moment turn this discussion on its head and be critical of the parents and families of the young white girls.

Would it be racist to suggest that there is a culture among certain groups of lower class white families on council estates to be bad parents and uncaring families ?

I don’t think it would be considered racist to be critical of this particular group.

I’m not suggesting that these families are to blame, merely asking if it would be racist to be critical of them.

For what it's worth, I'm tending to agree more with Farsi , and believe that we as a society have to pussyfoot around too much to avoid offence .

Not at all and it's completely true.

Some of these sink estates that white trash families live on and the way they behave is a disgrace. You just have to switch on an episode of Jeremy Kyle to see exactly what's wrong with a hell of a lot of white people these days. Most of them need chemically castrating.

[Guest MattP]

Well you're talking about one case. I'm talking about Paedophilia in general. The thread didn't really lead me to believe that we should just discuss this case.

If you want to be case specific. Who was it that decided "white" was the criteria? Did this group go with that as it's first premise or did they think what young girsl can we fool into this situation? Being as Pakistanis are , generally, muslim. the pakistani girls are less likely to drink to excess and "white" girls culture has made it out to be grown up and clever to drink to access.

Is there any proof that this group of men wouldn't have targetted eastern euopean immigrants (or nubile North African Girls) if they knew some and could have easily groomed them?

I don't think race was the deciding factor.

I'd say it was direct yeah, to be quite frank if you want to fcuk a 16 year old Eastern European just head to your local brothel. This was a direct attack on you and vunerable white English girls, the sort of girls like others have mentioned a lot of Muslims quite frankly see as sub-human and there to be abused.

The other thing is this really what you would class as "paedophilia" - I'm not sure it is, don;t forget in a lot of Islamic countries you can marry a 12 year old girl, in Saudi I believe it can go before the courts at 9. Hence why this was groups of friends etc doing it, there actually doesnt seem to be any shame in Islam in shagging a 13 year old, the only shame of it is it might be out of marrage.

[sphericalfox]

White paedophile groups are made up of individuals who don't know each other working in a network. They are secretive and discrete because they know what they are doing is morally wrong.

These pakistani groups on the other hand, engage in this behaviour openly, amongst groups including brothers, uncles and best friends. Their peers, in other words. They have no need to be secretive, because they and their peers exist in a community that genuinely thinks that drugging and raping 11-year-old girls is ok, as long as the girls are white.

That's the distinction. It's plainly obvious, and has been ignored in the past with devestating consequences. Lets hope it doesn't get brushed under the carpet again.

As yes the old 'lets blame the whole community' stance. Can't remember what that's called....

[Guest]

I'd say it was direct yeah, to be quite frank if you want to fcuk a 16 year old Eastern European just head to your local brothel. This was a direct attack on you and vunerable white English girls, the sort of girls like others have mentioned a lot of Muslims quite frankly see as sub-human and there to be abused.

I'm sorry I just find this offensive. Firstly Muslims are not all asian pakistanis and secondly it's a ludicrous and totally wrong statement.

I've finished with this discussion.

[Guest MattP]

I'm sorry I just find this offensive. Firstly Muslims are not all asian pakistanis and secondly it's a ludicrous and totally wrong statement.

I've finished with this discussion.

I've spoken nothing but the absolute truth. A lot of Muslims do see that. If you don't agree you need to get out more.

[1964FOX]

I'd say it was direct yeah, to be quite frank if you want to fcuk a 16 year old Eastern European just head to your local brothel. This was a direct attack on you and vunerable white English girls, the sort of girls like others have mentioned a lot of Muslims quite frankly see as sub-human and there to be abused.

The other thing is this really what you would class as "paedophilia" - I'm not sure it is, don;t forget in a lot of Islamic countries you can marry a 12 year old girl, in Saudi I believe it can go before the courts at 9. Hence why this was groups of friends etc doing it, there actually doesnt seem to be any shame in Islam in shagging a 13 year old, the only shame of it is it might be out of marrage.

I can see where you are coming from and perhaps my view point is tainted by having much more knowledge on the subject than the average person and I consider the subject as a whole rather than one case in the news. We must remember this is a tiny percentage of a certain culture that judge other race and religion in a certain way just as we have that percentage in our own culture.

[Guest]

I've spoken nothing but the absolute truth. A lot of Muslims do see that. If you don't agree you need to get out more.

You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the bollox and said "Hello, I'm the truth".

[MooseBreath]

As yes the old 'lets blame the whole community' stance. Can't remember what that's called....

Yes, I am in favour of blaming a community which accepts rape. You added the word "whole" to try and make it look as if I was blaming a large group or all pakistani's. You're so desperate to pull the race card that you will twist what people say, just so that it suits your weird little pseudo-moral-superiority agenda, even when the issue at hand is terribly serious.

[Raj]

I'd be happy with any coloured girl!!

[sphericalfox]

Yes, I am in favour of blaming a community which accepts rape. You added the word "whole" to try and make it look as if I was blaming a large group or all pakistani's. You're so desperate to pull the race card that you will twist what people say, just so that it suits your weird little pseudo-moral-superiority agenda, even when the issue at hand is terribly serious.

Firstly those first two sentences contradict each other.

I am assuming you live in a Muslim community, share muslim friends, and when it suits you hang out at the Mosque, as you seem fairly adamant in knowing these things as fact.

Enlighten us all, we'll cope with the consequences afterwards.

[MooseBreath]

Firstly those first two sentences contradict each other.

I am assuming you live in a Muslim community, share muslim friends, and when it suits you hang out at the Mosque, as you seem fairly adamant in knowing these things as fact.

Enlighten us all, we'll cope with the consequences afterwards.

Where's the contradiction? Why would me living in a muslim community have anything to do with what is happening in these other communities?

[Guest MattP]

I can see where you are coming from and perhaps my view point is tainted by having much more knowledge on the subject than the average person and I consider the subject as a whole rather than one case in the news. We must remember this is a tiny percentage of a certain culture that judge other race and religion in a certain way just as we have that percentage in our own culture.

I don;t anyone is claiming it's a majority, its a minority doing this, but just because of that doesnt mean we should pussyfoot around the issue when it comes to asking questions of certain communities..

You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the bollox and said "Hello, I'm the truth".

I do unfortunately and that's why all the leading figures in this case hold the same opinions as what I do.

Your attitude of "I'm offended so I'm off" is exactly why cases like this arise, as a country we have become scared to death of asking serious questions of anyone or any community that has people in it doing wrong, we are scared to tackle cultural beliefs, attitudes and actions that contradict the lifestyle of a Western democracy.

Like I said in my first post, the odious Nick Griffin was the only person who dared state this was happening in Public around 6-7 years ago, he was ridiculed by the Press and the Labour Party tried to throw him in jail for saying it. We now know a lot of Police forces were dealing with cases like this, we now have commisioners openly admitting they didn't take a lot of the allegations serious, Trevor Phillips himself said the press didnt want to report on it for fear of "inflaming tensions" - can it really get more ridiculous? Ignoring child rape in case we upset a community?

If we are going to improve community cohesion and avoid things like this at some point everyone is going to have to sit down and be absolutely brutally honest we each other, eventually there comes a point when people will start taking matters into their own hands if you keep putting your hands over your ears and running away in case you might be "offended".

[Guest]

You are mistaken.

I find the thoughts behind your words to be odious and malevolent and felt that I'd be better not to continue giving my opinion on a web based forum.