White girls fair game - differing views.

[davieG]

Merc

Keith Vaz

Blaming a particular ethnic group or religion for grooming girls for sex risks opening up a Pandora's box over race relations, an MP has warned.

Keith Vaz, Leicester East MP and chairman of the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee, said the root causes of the criminality against young girls needed to be addressed and the focus taken off the ethnic origin, religion or geographical location of those involved.

He condemned the presence of British National Party leader Nick Griffin at the opening of the trial of 11 men accused of grooming girls for sex.

Mr Vaz said the UK did not need "noises off third parties interfering with the criminal justice system".

He spoke out at the end of the trial, which received much attention after former home secretary Jack Straw said targeting white girls was a specific problem in the Pakistani community.

Nine men from Rochdale and Oldham were yesterday convicted of being part of a child sexual exploitation ring, grooming girls as young as 13.

Liverpool Crown Court heard the men plied their victims with drink and drugs so they could "pass them around" and use them for sex.

Police insisted the grooming was not racially motivated.

BBC

Baroness Warsi

A "small minority" of Pakistani men see white girls as "fair game", Baroness Warsi has said.

It is important to "speak out" and acknowledge the problem in order to tackle it, she added.

Lady Warsi, the daughter of Pakistani immigrants, is co-chair of the Conservative party.

Her comments follow the jailing of nine men, eight of whom were of Pakistani origin, in Rochdale for sexually abusing young girls.

Speaking to the London Evening Standard, Lady Warsi said: "There is a small minority of Pakistani men who believe that white girls are fair game.

"And we have to be prepared to say that. You can only start solving a problem if you acknowledge it first.

"This small minority who see women as second class citizens, and white women probably as third class citizens, are to be spoken out against."

'Truly dreadful'

Earlier in May, a group of Rochdale men was found guilty of a number of offences including including rape and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child, after exploiting vulnerable girls as young as 13.

David Cameron has described the case as "truly, truly dreadful".

Following the trial, Greater Manchester Police (GMP), which led the investigation, played down suggestions there was a racial element to the case.

GMP Assistant Chief Constable Steve Heywood said: "It just happens that in this particular area and time, the demographics were that these were Asian men."

And head of the Crown Prosecution Service in the North West, Nazir Afzal, said it was wrong to put race at the centre of the case.

But Baroness Warsi said she had decided to speak out after her father urged her to "show leadership" on the controversial issue.

She said it was important for communities to take responsibility for condemning this kind of behaviour.

"In mosque after mosque, this should be raised as an issue so that anybody remotely involved should start to feel that the community is turning on them,"

"Communities have a responsibility to stand up and say, 'This is wrong, this will not be tolerated'", she added.

A spokesman for the Conservative Party said Baroness Warsi's comments spoke for themselves and they did not want to elaborate on them.'Easy meat'

BNP leader Nick Griffin, who is also an MEP for the area, has called for a public inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the Rochdale case.

He said his party's supporters had demonstrated throughout the trial to draw attention to the issues it raised.

Lady Warsi echoes comments made by Rochdale MP, Simon Danczuk who said it would be "daft" to ignore a "race element" to the case.

Trevor Phillips, chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, said it was "fatuous" to deny racial and cultural factors.

But Labour MP and chairman of the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee Keith Vaz has said it is wrong to focus on a particular racial or religious group.

"There is no excuse for this kind of criminality, whoever is involved in it but I don't think it is a particular group of people, I don't think it's a particular race or religion," he said.

Last year former home secretary Jack Straw caused controversy when speaking about a similar case of abuse in Derby.

Mr Straw suggested some men of Pakistani origin see white girls as "easy meat".

"There is a specific problem which involves Pakistani heritage men... who target vulnerable young white girls", he said.

Meanwhile, Samantha Roberts, a rape victim who has waived her right to anonymity, has written to David Cameron asking for a parliamentary inquiry into child exploitation.

Ms Roberts was attacked by 39-year-old Shakil Chowdhury and three other men in 2006 at the age of 12. He was later sentenced to six years in jail, but her other attackers have not been caught.

She told her local paper the Oldham Chronicle: "It's ridiculous that it has to take five girls, as in this case, for people to take notice.

"People have now realised that things like this do go on in places like Oldham and Rochdale. There are cultural problems."

Since the conviction of the nine men, further arrests have been made in a second sexual grooming inquiry in Rochdale.

[Guest MattP]

I think everyone knows a small section of Muslim males view white girls as 'easy meat'. Some of the stuff Ive heard in the workplace was scandalous and that was with me present....

It's a weird bunch of cases to be honest, we all know paedos come in every colour religion etc but it was openness of the way this lot went about it that was frightening, hanging around outside school gates trying to pick up 14 years old with bottles of vodka. What's more worrying is it appears there are tens if not hundreds more of these cases to come out.

No idea how Vaz can say there isn't a racial element to it, it's one race deliberately targeting another one. It can't get much more related to race.

Don't like the term "Asian" being used either and I know a few Sikhs that have complained to the BBC about this, them and Hindus have done absolutely nothing to be tarred with this sort of behaviour.

It's a shame the only guy who spoke up about this was the BNP leader about 5 years back, it meant no one really took any notice, had someone like Warsi came forward then we probably could have stopped a lot of this happening, unfortunately at the time a lot of the media gave more importance to not appearing to be racist rather than stopping young girls being drugged and raped.

A hell of a lot of people should be hanging their heads in shame over this. (and we havnt even got to the police force who im sure will get theres eventually)

[Guest]

Some Caribbean guys, African guys and "white" guys also view white girls as fair game. This problem has nothing to do with race it's to do with sex and power.

[rico]

Vaz is a twat,wouldnt surprise me if he likes a young boy or two

[Guest MattP]

Some Caribbean guys, African guys and "white" guys also view white girls as fair game. This problem has nothing to do with race it's to do with sex and power.

But they don't generally gather their mates together, buy some vodka and drugs and head for the local school gates or street corner do they?

[1964FOX]

I have to agree it's more about power and exploitation rather than race directly. They are targeting the young girls who are more likely to be influenced and directed by giving them gifts and alcohol. I am sure they don't care what ehtnic group they come from as long as they are successful.

What is clear is that these are despicable men and are quite rightly in jail along with similar men from all kinds of race and religion who commit the same offences.

[Guest MattP]

Who to agree with?

Baroness Warsi, who has been involved with the Islamic community all her life + Trevor Phillips who is head of the CRE or Keith "passports" Vaz......

Tough choice

Any excuse to bring this out again as well..........

[Captain...]

I have to agree it's more about power and exploitation rather than race directly. They are targeting the young girls who are more likely to be influenced and directed by giving them gifts and alcohol. I am sure they don't care what ehtnic group they come from as long as they are successful.

What is clear is that these are despicable men and are quite rightly in jail along with similar men from all kinds of race and religion who commit the same offences.

I agree with this, it could just be the fact that "white" girls are easier to seduce with alcohol, rather than girls from other ethnic backgrounds, many of which have very strict views towards alcohol and women talking to men.

There may be an element of racial motivation in some of these cases, but I agree with Vaz in that focussing on the race element is not constructive and could create further tensions in communities. We need to be focussing in ensuring the safety of all girls, and boys, from all sexual predators regardless of skin colour.

[Thracian]

Vaz would say that. I wonder what he'd say if there were white gangs targetting Muslim girls. He's a typically two-faced Labour councillor, much disgraced and just right for the party he serves.

[Daggers]

Rita, Sue & Bob Too.

That's how white blokes shag schoolgirls - with comedy and lush longshot backdrops.

[Guest BlueBrett]

vaz is a spineless weasel. yet another politician who simply isn't fit for purpose.

It seems clear to me that racism within non integrated asian communities is a big problem. White racists these days tend to be lonely thugs or small pockets of braindeads living on estates and they operate from under the cosh because they know that their views are repugnant to the wider community. My perception is that bigotry in some asian communities is far more pervasive, spanning generations and affecting actual behaviour on a daily basis. Often it is the so called 'community leaders' who harbour and promote the most extreme views whereas the protagonists of white racist groups are more often than not from the very bottom of the pile. Worse still, in many cases, they seem to believe that being racist is religiously or culturally justifiable and they seem to genuinely believe in their moral superiority rather than simply disliking whites for a blend of vague reasons as is often the case with EDL types in their opposite idiocy.

Would have thought that given his job vaz would be well placed to notice some of these things. As a matter of fact I don't doubt that he has, however I refer you to my opening comment.

[Guest]

Sorry I thought the discussion was about predators and their "prey" not about Vaz.

For the first if you think that the colour of the predator or the colour of the prey is relevant then you are naive.

For the second I couldn't care less.

[Rincewind]

Did you know that Asia was a continent not a country? You could say people from the UK wear kilts.

[Guest MattP]

Sorry I thought the discussion was about predators and their "prey" not about Vaz.

For the first if you think that the colour of the predator or the colour of the prey is relevant then you are naive.

For the second I couldn't care less.

What an absolutely ridiculous statement, it;s attitudes like that allow racism to prosper in certain communities.

Was the prey and the predator irrelevent in the Stephen Lawrence case? Of course not, he was attacked because of the colour of his skin, the exact same reason these girls are targeted for sexual assault. No wonder it took ten years to get to the bottom of it with attitudes like this.

[Guest]

Did you know that Asia was a continent not a country? You could say people from the UK wear kilts.

I hope that isn't aimed at me?

[MooseBreath]

I think everyone knows a small section of Muslim males view white girls as 'easy meat'. Some of the stuff Ive heard in the workplace was scandalous and that was with me present....

It's a weird bunch of cases to be honest, we all know paedos come in every colour religion etc but it was openness of the way this lot went about it that was frightening, hanging around outside school gates trying to pick up 14 years old with bottles of vodka. What's more worrying is it appears there are tens if not hundreds more of these cases to come out.

No idea how Vaz can say there isn't a racial element to it, it's one race deliberately targeting another one. It can't get much more related to race.

Don't like the term "Asian" being used either and I know a few Sikhs that have complained to the BBC about this, them and Hindus have done absolutely nothing to be tarred with this sort of behaviour.

It's a shame the only guy who spoke up about this was the BNP leader about 5 years back, it meant no one really took any notice, had someone like Warsi came forward then we probably could have stopped a lot of this happening, unfortunately at the time a lot of the media gave more importance to not appearing to be racist rather than stopping young girls being drugged and raped.

A hell of a lot of people should be hanging their heads in shame over this. (and we havnt even got to the police force who im sure will get theres eventually)

Totally agree with this. Hopefully this case marks the start of the time when we can finally talk openly about race-related issues.

The whole concept of racism in modern Britain has had an irrational amount of sensitivity attached to it by left wingers frightened of appearing to be racist, to the point where it's become normal for people to utter trite lies focussed on neutrality and not upsetting anyone, rather than actually being honest and telling it like it is.

In most cases, this doesn't matter, and for people like Vaz, I suspect, it's good for business. But when it comes to young girls being systematically abused by gangs of viscious paedophiles, we really need to snap out of this nonsense and start growing the **** up.

[Guest]

What an absolutely ridiculous statement, it;s attitudes like that allow racism to prosper in certain communities.

Was the prey and the predator irrelevent in the Stephen Lawrence case? Of course not, he was attacked because of the colour of his skin, the exact same reason these girls are targeted for sexual assault. No wonder it took ten years to get to the bottom of it with attitudes like this.

Are you right wing?

Stephen Lawrence was attacked because of the colour of his skin. That is irrelevant when we talk about the perpertrators - if they were white, black, chinese asian, Indian asian - they are thugs and would deserve to be treated the same. You bring racism into the equation with your attitude. My attitude ignores colour and condemns whatever the colour.

However you've missed my point regarding this discussion. All colours of men are attracted to all colours of girls - sure some men prefer some type of girl but that's irrelevant to the general siuation. You get sickos from every colour.

[Guest]

But when it comes to young girls being systematically abused by gangs of viscious paedophiles, we really need to snap out of this nonsense and start growing the **** up.

Paedophiles are worldwide and of any colour and so are their victims. Get past your small ideas of racism and see the whole picture.

Some men of every colour like to abuse small children. That isn't racism.

[Guest BlueBrett]

Sorry I thought the discussion was about predators and their "prey" not about Vaz.

For the first if you think that the colour of the predator or the colour of the prey is relevant then you are naive.

No.

The discussion should be about the conditions and ideas that allow and even encourage so called 'predators' to bond together into packs in a way that they find self-affirming. We should not allow any minority groups to justify prejudicial behaviour towards women or anyone else by simply citing their 'culture'. If you do then I'm afraid it is inevitable that every once in a while something like this will happen.

[Guest BlueBrett]

Are you right wing?

Stephen Lawrence was attacked because of the colour of his skin. That is irrelevant when we talk about the perpertrators - if they were white, black, chinese asian, Indian asian - they are thugs and would deserve to be treated the same. You bring racism into the equation with your attitude. My attitude ignores colour and condemns whatever the colour.

However you've missed my point regarding this discussion. All colours of men are attracted to all colours of girls - sure some men prefer some type of girl but that's irrelevant to the general siuation. You get sickos from every colour.

Who said anything about treating 2 people who commit the same crime differently because of their race? We were discussing whether race played a part in bringing the crimes about in the first place. In this case and in many others it is absolutely clear that it did.

[Guest]

No.

The discussion should be about the conditions and ideas that allow and even encourage so called 'predators' to bond together into packs in a way that they find self-affirming. We should not allow any minority groups to justify prejudicial behaviour towards women or anyone else by simply citing their 'culture'. If you do then I'm afraid it is inevitable that every once in a while something like this will happen.

Minority or majority group it makes no difference.

[Guest]

Who said anything about treating 2 people who commit the same crime differently because of their race? We were discussing whether race played a part in bringing the crimes about in the first place. In this case and in many others it is absolutely clear that it did.

Then you misunderstood me.

I wasn't commenting on the same as you.

I still don't get your point though - white guys get together in paedo rings too. The race argument is just an excuse to deflect from the central reason.

[Guest BlueBrett]

Minority or majority group it makes no difference.

Obviously. But there is less chance of a majority being swayed by so called culture. Besides, the more people you try to spread a given culture over the more dilute it becomes. The danger is naturally more salient in minorities.

[acooling08]

There is definitely a racial element to thse kind of cases, but I would imagine there are more white than minority group paedophiles in British prisons.

[1964FOX]

Who said anything about treating 2 people who commit the same crime differently because of their race? We were discussing whether race played a part in bringing the crimes about in the first place. In this case and in many others it is absolutely clear that it did.

It's a very difficult one as I agree that these men targeted a specific type of young girl due to their belief that they would likely have more success but I don't believe it was racially motivated in this instance. Most predatory groups of men in this country are White middle aged men and they also seek a certain type of girl who can be influenced by different factors.