purpleronnie Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 THAT is the million dollar question. both surely?
Rincewind Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 http://www.guardian....hout-uk-rehab-1 http://insidenoutuk.wordpress.com/ 8 2012 Armed robbers make ‘exceptionally good employees’ 17 July 2012 The chief executive of an employment agency which solely employs ex-prisoners has said that “armed robbers make exceptionally good employeesâ€. Mick May, of Blue Sky Development & Regeneration, told BBC Radio 2′s Jeremy Vine that armed robbers are usually intelligent and well-motivated. In the five years that Blue Sky has been running, it has employed nearly 500 ex-offenders, less than 15% of whom have re-offended. The Jeremy Vine Show is broadcast Monday to Friday at 12:00 BST on BBC Radio 2. Or listen again via the link. By insidenoutuk • Posted in Ex-Offenders, MOJ, Offenders • Tagged BBC News UK, Blue Sky Development, Inside 'n' Out CIC. Inside 'N' Out is a well respected magazine read and distributed by prisons and probation officers. It is non-political and is intended to highlight issues regarding prisons and ex offenders. Contributors are by people within the prison service who have the knowledge not known by the public or scaremongering newspapers. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/16/longer-prison-sentences-civitas
ADK Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 So you would be happy with overcrowded prisons? Will you be happy for a tax increase to fund this? Anyone who thinks that society plays no role in crime is being very naive. I think I'm being generous when I write that. I would have thought that if prisons were better at rehabilitation, the prison population would come down. However, simply pretending someone is not a danger to the public is not a solution. The prison service should be protecting law abiding citizens as its first priority.
Guest Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 I would have thought that if prisons were better at rehabilitation, the prison population would come down. However, simply pretending someone is not a danger to the public is not a solution. The prison service should be protecting law abiding citizens as its first priority. I disagree.
Head Honcho Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 I think that is the problem with viewing prisons as just punishment, and fixed sentences, you can serve your punishment and not be rehabilitated. You should serve the first part of your sentence as punishment and the later part as rehabilitation.If you screw up the punishment part then you don't progress to rehabilitation until you've completed your punishment.
Darkon84 Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 both surely? Maybe so, but whereas the rehabilitation was always simply through punishment of prison confinement, now it seems to be that prison is not punishment, but a rehabilitation camp if you will (ok 'camp' sounds a bit loose and light, but hope people get the point) where you recieve extra education etc. It appears to be a lop-sided affair for many these days.
Captain... Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 You should serve the first part of your sentence as punishment and the later part as rehabilitation. If you screw up the punishment part then you don't progress to rehabilitation until you've completed your punishment. So while you are being punished you can't be rehabilitated? I see what you mean but I don't see how it could work, even if you ran them concurrently, if someone is rehabilitated what benefit is there in keeping them inside, if they are not then how can you release them? Maybe so, but whereas the rehabilitation was always simply through punishment of prison confinement, now it seems to be that prison is not punishment, but a rehabilitation camp if you will (ok 'camp' sounds a bit loose and light, but hope people get the point) where you recieve extra education etc. It appears to be a lop-sided affair for many these days. The physical building is not the punishment, it is the loss of liberty and freedom that is the punishment, you could be imprisoned in the nicest hotel in the world, but if you couldn't see your friends your family talk to them on the phone, have a drink, relax, go to the pub, just walk outside whenever you want, it would not be pleasant. The problem is that there are some people whose lives are so shitty they see prison as preferable because they have no true friends, their family mistreat or have abandoned them, and their lives on the outside have no purpose. In prison they have a purpose, they have a regime, they have people who actually take an interest in their lives, the problem is they come out and life is still shitty, and in that way rehabilitation is not working.
Guest Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 THAT is the million dollar question. which we discussed ad nauseum in the danish prison thread only a couple of months ago.
Head Honcho Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 So while you are being punished you can't be rehabilitated? I see what you mean but I don't see how it could work, even if you ran them concurrently, if someone is rehabilitated what benefit is there in keeping them inside, if they are not then how can you release them? The physical building is not the punishment, it is the loss of liberty and freedom that is the punishment, you could be imprisoned in the nicest hotel in the world, but if you couldn't see your friends your family talk to them on the phone, have a drink, relax, go to the pub, just walk outside whenever you want, it would not be pleasant. The problem is that there are some people whose lives are so shitty they see prison as preferable because they have no true friends, their family mistreat or have abandoned them, and their lives on the outside have no purpose. In prison they have a purpose, they have a regime, they have people who actually take an interest in their lives, the problem is they come out and life is still shitty, and in that way rehabilitation is not working. You can and many are but my view is that you should be punished first and rehabilitated only when you have successfully completed your punishment.
Rincewind Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 And that is why there are probation officers and support groups that helps the prisoner adjust to life outside. It is not being soft as some may think. They are only given the same help as anyone else that needs it. They may still be on a good behavior bond, do anything wrong and straight back inside.
MooseBreath Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 Crime is never the fault of the individual. They're just the poor gullible puppet of big bad society. We shouldn't punish the individual, how is he - just a brainless peasant - supposed to be responsible for his own decisions? He can't even tie his shoelaces! You can't punish him, so punish society. Everytime a little guy commits a crime, a helicopter should drop acid on a random part of town.
Captain... Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 You can and many are but my view is that you should be punished first and rehabilitated only when you have successfully completed your punishment. But if you punish people for 2 years solitary confinement, for example, then try and rehabilitate them, you have already lost 2 years of rehabilitating them, and by punishing them first they will probably be harder to rehabilitate.
Darkon84 Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 which we discussed ad nauseum in the danish prison thread only a couple of months ago. I dont think I was a participant in that, but I'll be sure to have a look at some point
Captain... Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 Crime is never the fault of the individual. They're just the poor gullible puppet of big bad society. We shouldn't punish the individual, how is he - just a brainless peasant - supposed to be responsible for his own decisions? He can't even tie his shoelaces! You can't punish him, so punish society. Everytime a little guy commits a crime, a helicopter should drop acid on a random part of town. Thank you for your contribution, it has been duly noted and considered.
Rincewind Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 Thank you for your contribution, it has been duly noted and considered. I was too dumbstruct by the intellegence of the contribution to respond. Your reply will have to do.
MooseBreath Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 Thank you for your contribution, it has been duly noted and considered. Just taking the liberal angle to its logical solution.
Rincewind Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 Just taking the liberal angle to its logical solution. You realy have thought all this through haven't you?
MooseBreath Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 You realy have thought all this through haven't you? Yeah but what can I say, my brain power pales in comparison to an supreme intellectual like yourself. Please conclude the debate, wise one.
ADK Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 Perhaps we should award criminals compensation, after all it is down to societies failures that they have chosen to commit crime.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 I wonder just how many people realize how crime effects the lives of the victims? I have had to visit quite a few people who have only suffered a break in or minor burglary. This is the low end of the crime scale, and I cannot recall one single person who has not been deeply shocked, and devastated. Someone asked the question, "Is prison a place to punish criminals, or rehabilitate them"? It cannot do both, and the latter, statically speaking, is a massive failure. My experience, for what it's worth is that, leads me to believe emphatically, that prison should be there to punish. It may be that some form of rehabilitation for minor crime, after a sentence has been served, would be beneficial, but those who are hardened criminals would merely scoff at such an idea. These people don't give a f--- about law abiding people, and how their lives can be ripped apart, by crime.. The time has come for the criminal to receive a punishment that fits the crime, and for us all to have more thought about the victims, and how they cope with their lives.
Rincewind Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 I t may be that some form of rehabilitation for minor crime, after a sentence has been served, would be beneficial, but those who are hardened criminals would merely scoff at such an idea. These people don't give a f--- about law abiding people, and how their lives can be ripped apart, by crime.. 17 July 2012 The chief executive of an employment agency which solely employs ex-prisoners has said that “armed robbers make exceptionally good employeesâ€. Mick May, of Blue Sky Development & Regeneration, told BBC Radio 2′s Jeremy Vine that armed robbers are usually intelligent and well-motivated.
MooseBreath Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 Prison is supposed to be a deterrent. It can't do that job when you turn it into some kind of all-inclusive training facility. Some of the liberal idiots on here would send prisoners to a five star resort before they'd put them somewhere tough. Disturbingly sheltered and naive fools abound on here sometimes.
Captain... Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 Disturbingly sheltered and naive fools abound on here sometimes. Yes, yes there are.
davieG Posted 19 July 2012 Posted 19 July 2012 These pickpockets on their way to London for the rich pickings at the Olympics don't seem to have a clue or care one iota about the affect they may have on their victims. Yet if caught they'll probably get the equivalent of a slap on the wrists. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18798792 - includes video. Johnny, Mario and Danny - as they referred to themselves - are part of a network of 50 Romanian pickpockets operating in the Spanish city. They say they are now aiming for gold at the London Games. The petty thieves struggle to hide their excitement as they conduct their research on the internet, scanning through images of bustling shopping centres near the Olympic Village and overcrowded tubes and buses. They even plan their escape routes using satellite images of the streets of east London. Danny has been a pickpocket since he was seven. "It's in the blood, it's all I know. This is what we do and we do it well," he says, handing back the wallet I thought was still in my back pocket. When I see kids coming out of shops laden with sweets and drinks just throwing the wrappings down as they walk along with not a care in the world or a thought to who's going to clear up the mess I just see a future criminal. Is it really surprising when so many national and local politicians and those running or high up in business are seen to get away scot free as they offer their sincerest apologies. Whatever the solution is the current system be it deterrent, punishment or rehabilitation doesn't seem to be working.
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