The South's pathetic contribution to the industrial heritage of England

[Webbo]

That's why he put it in quote marks. It's cut off from it's mainland by a little something called North Korea, you've heard of that, yes?

I suppose being flippantly pedantic is one way to ignore the fact he made a pretty good point you've no counter for, though.

That's like saying Portugal is an island because it's cut off from Europe by Spain.

I didn't really want to get into the argument but Korea is a good example of socialism versus capitalism. You have South Korea that followed the capitalist pattern and North Korea that followed socialism. The South is an outwardly looking, wealthy, democracy,after a period of dictatorship admittedly and the North a brutal dictatorship in never ending poverty.

[Webbo]

Hence my use of quotation marks From a trade and economic perspective, it is an island nation as everything has to be brought in or out by air or sea. There ain't nothing getting out by land, not with the nutters up North.

I'll believe you.

[Finnegan]

That's like saying Portugal is an island because it's cut off from Europe by Spain.

Only if you're completely retarded.

I didn't really want to get into the argument but Korea is a good example of socialism versus capitalism. You have South Korea that followed the capitalist pattern and North Korea that followed socialism. The South is an outwardly looking, wealthy, democracy,after a period of dictatorship admittedly and the North a brutal dictatorship in never ending poverty.

There's no socialism in North Korea, it's an oppressive dictatorship that's used communist dogma to create a cult of personality around a family dynasty playing at gods.

Socialism doesn't advocate millions upon millions of people working away as slaves, with no voice, starving en masse while an elite, unelected few pass the fruits of their people's rape down through hereditary hands.

[Alexikokopops]

That's like saying Portugal is an island because it's cut off from Europe by Spain.

Ah yes, I forgot about the closed borders of Spain that stop any import of goods to Portugal by road

[The Doctor]

That's like saying Portugal is an island because it's cut off from Europe by Spain.

I didn't really want to get into the argument but Korea is a good example of socialism versus capitalism. You have South Korea that followed the capitalist pattern and North Korea that followed socialism. The South is an outwardly looking, wealthy, democracy,after a period of dictatorship admittedly and the North a brutal dictatorship in never ending poverty.

But Spain aren't ****ing mentalists who stop anything from reaching Portugal by land now are they?

[Finnegan]

Ah yes, I forgot about the closed borders of Spain that stop any import of goods to Portugal by road

Really? The Iberian DMZ is one of the most fiercely contested, highly tense political hotbeds in the world.

Oh, wait...

[Webbo]

Why all the hostility? I was only pointing out a bit of geography.

Okay, let's say Gibraltar instead.Is that, or has it ever been an island?

[leicsmac]

That's like saying Portugal is an island because it's cut off from Europe by Spain.

I didn't really want to get into the argument but Korea is a good example of socialism versus capitalism. You have South Korea that followed the capitalist pattern and North Korea that followed socialism. The South is an outwardly looking, wealthy, democracy,after a period of dictatorship admittedly and the North a brutal dictatorship in never ending poverty.

NK is socialist pretty much in name only now. It started out that way, but now it's pretty much just an authoritarian dictatorship based on a ridiculous cult of personality surrounding the Kims.

I'll believe you.

Why else would I put the quotation marks in? I lived there for two years - I may spout some shite elsewhere on here but on this, I know whereof I speak.

[Finnegan]

Why all the hostility? I was only pointing out a bit of geography.

Because you made a gowl of yourself by jumping in and erroneously trying to correct someone who was making an intelligent point that you didn't "get."

Forgiveable if you then put your hand up and go "oh, yeah, sorry - wasn't thinking." We've all been there. But ploughing on indignantly, being deliberately obtuse and pedantic to try and force your non-point is worthy of a bit of "hostility."

[Webbo]

Only if you're completely retarded.

There's no socialism in North Korea, it's an oppressive dictatorship that's used communist dogma to create a cult of personality around a family dynasty playing at gods.

Socialism doesn't advocate millions upon millions of people working away as slaves, with no voice, starving en masse while an elite, unelected few pass the fruits of their people's rape down through hereditary hands.

It might not advocate it but that's usually the outcome.

[The Doctor]

Why all the hostility? I was only pointing out a bit of geography.

Okay, let's say Gibraltar instead.Is that, or has it ever been an island?

Because it was a ridiculous comment to make - South Korea may be a penninsula, but in terms of trade the mentalists up north effectively make it an island nation.

It might not advocate it but that's usually the outcome.

Eh? When has it resulted in that - and don't say the USSR, that was about as socialist as Mooslers dream nation.

[leicsmac]

Why all the hostility? I was only pointing out a bit of geography.

Okay, let's say Gibraltar instead.Is that, or has it ever been an island?

Come on...you're a smart person, you know the analogy I was going for, and you know it makes sense too.

Gibraltar (at the present time) is easily accessible by land. South Korea is not, and probably won't be for some time.

[Finnegan]

It might not advocate it but that's usually the outcome.

It's usually the outcome of communism, the two aren't one and the same.

Absolute power corrupting absolutely and all of that.

[Webbo]

Because you made a gowl of yourself by jumping in and erroneously trying to correct someone who was making an intelligent point that you didn't "get."

Forgiveable if you then put your hand up and go "oh, yeah, sorry - wasn't thinking." We've all been there. But ploughing on indignantly, being deliberately obtuse and pedantic to try and force your non-point is worthy of a bit of "hostility."

Calm down chap.

[Guest BlueBrett]

You can't run a big economy just offering one thing - especially when what you're offering is totally immaterial. And making stuff has been the backbone of the economic growth in any big country. South Koreas (an "island nation" of similar size and population to our own) economic boom of the last 20-odd years - and they've weathered the recession far better than most - has been built on making stuff and exporting it out, along with mass employment. And it's not low-paid either - I didn't see many people at all over there who I would consider to be poor.

We need to get our manufacturing industries going again, and by extension get people working again.

You are right of course but the kind of manufacturing you are talking about is highly skilled precision engineering that requires a competent, even intelligent, workforce. Even if we could encourage more businesses like that to operate on our shores it wouldn't solve the skills crisis and would do little to ease unemployent. Frankly it wont happen because "you just can't get the staff" unless you are willing to draught in foreign workers but then you are only really addressing half of the problem.

[Finnegan]

Calm down chap.

I'm perfectly calm. I've got a lovely mug of Ceylon next to me and a ridiculous door stop of fresh, buttered toast. The Six Nations highlights are on in the background and even the rain can't dampen my mood.

Just saying, you're being a harris.

[Webbo]

Come on...you're a smart person, you know the analogy I was going for, and you know it makes sense too.

Gibraltar (at the present time) is easily accessible by land. South Korea is not, and probably won't be for some time.

I didn't know you were making an analogy but as you say you lived there I'll assume you knew it wasn't really an island so I'm sorry.

BTW Franco's Spain cut off Gibraltar from the mainland and the present Spanish govt can get very awkward over the border crossing.

[Webbo]

I'm perfectly calm. I've got a lovely mug of Ceylon next to me and a ridiculous door stop of fresh, buttered toast. The Six Nations highlights are on in the background and even the rain can't dampen my mood.

Just saying, you're being a harris.

Gowl? Harris? I'm afraid I don't understand these "young person's" insults.

[Finnegan]

Gowl? Harris? I'm afraid I don't understand these "young person's" insults.

Harris? Young people?

It's Cockney Rhyming Slang for arse.

[leicsmac]

You are right of course but the kind of manufacturing you are talking about is highly skilled precision engineering that requires a competent, even intelligent, workforce. Even if we could encourage more businesses like that to operate on our shores it wouldn't solve the skills crisis and would do little to ease unemployent. Frankly it wont happen because "you just can't get the staff" unless you are willing to draught in foreign workers but then you are only really addressing half of the problem.

Agree with this...it's a dilemma and a half.

But then I'm guessing there's got to be SOMETHING physical we can make or supply that the world needs. And you've hit another nail on the head with the education issue. More 'on-the-job' training and practical vocational courses are needed at universities rather than purely academic ones. Again, I'm sticking to what I know here, but if the folks in SK can do it with a similar population and land size, then why can't we?

I didn't know you were making an analogy but as you say you lived there I'll assume you knew it wasn't really an island so I'm sorry.

BTW Franco's Spain cut off Gibraltar from the mainland and the present Spanish govt can get very awkward over the border crossing.

No worries.

Yeah, Gibraltar is a pretty thorny issue with the Spaniards and has been for a long time. If they ever did close the border crossing completely and enforce it (like Franco did) then the same analogy would apply. We'd have to supply them by sea or air.

[Zingari]

Gowl? Harris? I'm afraid I don't understand these "young person's" insults.

He's calling you a paint brush .

You really should have known that .

[Zingari]

Harris? Young people?

It's Cockney Rhyming Slang for arse.

Southern tw@ts can't even rhyme words properly .

[Jace]

I was having a conversation with my old man the other week about the decline of industry.

It occurred to me that almost every town in the North and the Midlands can be instantly associated with one or more major industry from over the years. For example: Leicester + hosiery / shoes, Derby + train building / textiles, Manchester and other towns in the North West + cotton mills, Sheffield + steel, various places + coal, etc. etc.

By the same token, with the small exception of the odd shipbuilding town such as Chatham, there are no places in the South of England with which I could make the same connection.

Where the frig did these Southerners work in the olden days? They can't all have been wanking off while the North and Midlands were busy making stuff?

Cornwalls main industry has always been mining mainly tin and china clay

[Finnegan]

Southern tw@ts can't even rhyme words properly .

:D

[Zingari]

Cornwalls main industry has always been mining mainly tin and china clay

and pasties !