The South's pathetic contribution to the industrial heritage of England

[Guest BlueBrett]

Agree with this...it's a dilemma and a half.

But then I'm guessing there's got to be SOMETHING physical we can make or supply that the world needs. And you've hit another nail on the head with the education issue. More 'on-the-job' training and practical vocational courses are needed at universities rather than purely academic ones. Again, I'm sticking to what I know here, but if the folks in SK can do it with a similar population and land size, then why can't we?

Well I suppose you have to have a long term strategy that probably involves going down the foreign workers route to begin with and then you start offering intern and apprenticeships to young British workers once we have an established base of viable hi tech businesses. It would be a 30 year project though and I'm not sure our political leadership has the requisite foresight or stamina.

[Webbo]

He's calling you a paint brush .

You really should have known that .

If he's calling me a Harris paint brush I'll be really insulted,fecking wilko specials.

PS it's Arris, short for aristotle, rhymes with bottle, bottle and glass, ass.

[Zingari]

If he's calling me a Harris paint brush I'll be really insulted,fecking wilko specials.

PS it's Arris, short for aristotle, rhymes with bottle, bottle and glass, ass.

I knew that would make you bristle with anger.

[davieG]

Well I suppose you have to have a long term strategy that probably involves going down the foreign workers route to begin with and then you start offering intern and apprenticeships to young British workers once we have an established base of viable hi tech businesses. It would be a 30 year project though and I'm not sure our political leadership has the requisite foresight or stamina.

There's still plenty of skilled, technical, practical people looking for satisfying jobs, up until a couple of years ago I was churning out engineering and construction apprentice trained technicians/engineers who ended up doing 'paperwork' because all the stuff that was designed by the more technically gifted people ended up being manufactured abroad.

[leicsmac]

Well I suppose you have to have a long term strategy that probably involves going down the foreign workers route to begin with and then you start offering intern and apprenticeships to young British workers once we have an established base of viable hi tech businesses. It would be a 30 year project though and I'm not sure our political leadership has the requisite foresight or stamina.

Yeah - politicians are possibly only in office for 5 years so short-termism is a key problem.

I do however agree with you in thinking that high-tech industry is the way forward - we can't undercut countries with larger populations on mass production, so let's make stuff that requires knowhow.

Edit: and as DavieG says above, we don't have a skill shortage...there are loads of young smart people out there looking for jobs like this. I'm one of them.

[Jace]

and pasties !

Not sure if pasties can be called an industry but they are very mass produced here Our town just opened its first KFC last week and its had a massive queue right around the outside of the building since its opened. Change has been a long time coming

[Deucalion]

Something I have been thinking for a while now is whether the South of England should go it's own separate way.

They can all get stinking rich on their monopoly money economy while the North and Midlands can try to rebuild an economy based on manufacturing, good education for all, social justice and EU membership.

I personally have very little affection for the idea of England and would happily give my loyalty to something I had more faith in, such as the EU, an independent Scotland or a new political entity.

[Zingari]

Where should they draw the line between North and South England ?

I'd suggest the old A47 should form part of the boundary , with New Parks in the working class north and Braunstone in the affluent south .

[Finnegan]

Where should they draw the line between North and South England ?

I'd suggest the old A47 should form part of the boundary , with New Parks in the working class north and Braunstone in the affluent south .

lol lol lol !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Saxondale]

Cornwalls main industry has always been mining mainly tin and china clay

Yep. Good point. Proper industry.

[Deucalion]

Where should they draw the line between North and South England ?

I'd suggest the old A47 should form part of the boundary , with New Parks in the working class north and Braunstone in the affluent south .

Oi...I'm originally from New Parks and I do not think Braunies are posher than us!

Seriously though, it is fair to say that the economy of the South East is totally different from other parts of the country and especially when we have Tory governments, other parts of the country lose out big time because all Tory policies are about the South East.

Wouldn't it make sense to have regional economic policies to suit local conditions? The Scots are getting a vote on whether they want continued dominance from the London elites, why not other parts of the country?

In one way, national identity is getting less and less important, as we are all part of a greater whole. Although conversely, being part of the greater whole also allows smaller nations to have a semblance of nationhood, while under the umbrella of the EU. One of the underlying principles of the EU is subsidiarity, that decisions should always be made at the lowest possible level. This does not happen in centralised England.

While I think the economic similarity of the North and Midlands makes a shared government possible, there are places which are not similar to the Home Counties or the industrial cities. The North/ Midlands could focus on urban regeneration while the South West and East Anglia could have policies to suit agricultural development.

This regionalism is how it should be in the EU, but not surprisingly, not only have the South West and London grasped all the wealth but they have grasped all the power too.

Independence !!

[Dr The Singh]

3D printing could destroy manuacturing as we know it just as we've gone and devalued our own currency enough to tempt traditional manufacturing back. We'll miss the boat and continue our slide down into the bottom half on the global league table along with the rest of Europe.

5 years, the company i work for already uses them for prototypes.......there still too expensive

[Guest BlueBrett]

Oi...I'm originally from New Parks and I do not think Braunies are posher than us!

Seriously though, it is fair to say that the economy of the South East is totally different from other parts of the country and especially when we have Tory governments, other parts of the country lose out big time because all Tory policies are about the South East.

Wouldn't it make sense to have regional economic policies to suit local conditions? The Scots are getting a vote on whether they want continued dominance from the London elites, why not other parts of the country?

In one way, national identity is getting less and less important, as we are all part of a greater whole. Although conversely, being part of the greater whole also allows smaller nations to have a semblance of nationhood, while under the umbrella of the EU. One of the underlying principles of the EU is subsidiarity, that decisions should always be made at the lowest possible level. This does not happen in centralised England.

While I think the economic similarity of the North and Midlands makes a shared government possible, there are places which are not similar to the Home Counties or the industrial cities. The North/ Midlands could focus on urban regeneration while the South West and East Anglia could have policies to suit agricultural development.

This regionalism is how it should be in the EU, but not surprisingly, not only have the South West and London grasped all the wealth but they have grasped all the power too.

Independence !!

So regions with dissimilar economies should be governed independently but the EU is an exemplar model of administration? Joined up thinking at its best.

Oh and the EU devolves decision making to to local areas! You're too much.

[Deucalion]

So regions with dissimilar economies should be governed independently but the EU is an exemplar model of administration? Joined up thinking at its best.

Oh and the EU devolves decision making to to local areas! You're too much.

The principle of subsidiarity means that decisions should be made at the lowest possible level. This is one of the cornerstones of the EU. If your criticism is about the Euro and it being difficult to have a common economic policy for disparate regions of Europe then you have a good point. There is no way economic policies for Germany are going to be helpful to Greece at the moment. Needs work.

I don't know if you meant this because you criticised something without actually being specific about your point. I've helped you out and given you something specific to help your point along.

There is a helpful comparison between Germany and Greece in the Euro and Middlesboro and London though.

[Guest BlueBrett]

My point is that although it may be a stated principle of the EU that is not what happens. Quite the opposite in fact.

So now that you have conceded that it is illogical to impose a unified economic policy on disparate economies and since you suggest that for this reason England should be governed by independent regional bodies am I to assume that, quite apart from my initial impression of your feelings towards the EU, you are in fact advocating that the whole thing be dismantled?

[21st Century Fox]

a fair amount of manufacturing will probably end up back here after it's done a tour of the worlds low paid economies, having lifted up their standard of living and pay levels, we've had Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, India etc now it's China's turn at the grind wheel.

Even now there's stories of companies abandoning India and returning to the UK.

It has begun...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/mar/17/nations-noodle-production-moves-uk

[davieG]

It has begun...

http://www.guardian....uction-moves-uk

I believe that's what i said

[21st Century Fox]

I believe that's what i said

I know, I was just pulling out a rubbish example

[Deucalion]

My point is that although it may be a stated principle of the EU that is not what happens. Quite the opposite in fact.

So now that you have conceded that it is illogical to impose a unified economic policy on disparate economies and since you suggest that for this reason England should be governed by independent regional bodies am I to assume that, quite apart from my initial impression of your feelings towards the EU, you are in fact advocating that the whole thing be dismantled?

I think the Euro would've been great but by including countries in Southern Europe with very different economies to those in the north, they attempted to jump the shark a little.

However, a supranational organisation like the EU would allow many small states, such as an independent North of England, to be independent while being part of the large, umbrella organisation as a safety net.

I have no answer to how to allow the different parts to control their own economies as suits them while still being part of the greater whole, with the greater whole actually meaning anything.

If I had this answer, I would probably be working for the European Central Bank.

[Charl91]

5 years, the company i work for already uses them for prototypes.......there still too expensive

I work for a 3D printing company at the moment that does prototypes for people. It's really not (yet) as efficient as people believe it to be. The other problem is that the companys who sell the printers (which certainly aren't cheap!) also sell the power/material used for printing for extortionate prices.

[Carl the Llama]

and pasties !

Interesting fact: The Cornish Pasty was invented for the specific purpose of feeding Cornish miners. The thick pastry around the outside allowed them to eat their food without getting it all grubby from whatever muck they were digging in. The muck-covered bits of pastry itself would then be discarded.

I may have lied about it being interesting.

[Carl the Llama]

To those saying 3D printing's too expensive/cumbersome:

That's how new inventions work. All members of this forum should have seen in their lifetime some example of a new gizmo coming out and being stupidly costly before becoming both much more affordable and efficient (computers, memory cards, external hard drives, cameras, cars, printers of the non-3D variety, televisions, telephones, etc ad infinitum).

3D printers will be everywhere a very short period from now in absolute terms

[davieG]

Interesting fact: The Cornish Pasty was invented for the specific purpose of feeding Cornish miners. The thick pastry around the outside allowed them to eat their food without getting it all grubby from whatever muck they were digging in. The muck-covered bits of pastry itself would then be discarded.

I may have lied about it being interesting.

Even more interest was that it had two sections dinner and pudding.

[Carl the Llama]

Even more interest was that it had two sections dinner and pudding.

Another victory of southern industrialism.

Being serious though.

[Deucalion]

Even more interest was that it had two sections dinner and pudding.

That is interesting.

The part where dinner and pudding joined must've been pretty horrendous though.