Webbo Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 China is engaging in empire expansionism, but by using economics, not guns. But how do you suggest the rest of the world stop that? Big economies now have global effects. It's giving the guns to the Despots and their cronies and letting them do the shooting. Colonialism is either right or wrong, you can't have it both ways. The UK can no longer pretend that it can stand alone from an economic standpoint. We can't just close our eyes and pretend what's going on in the rest of the world isn't happening and doesn't affect us. And as economics and politics seem inextricably linked these days... Why not? Switzerland, Norway, Australia and no doubt others too are are stand alone countries that are doing better than us.
Deucalion Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 To the benefit of the local despots. They're treating the locals worse than we did 100 years ago. How anyone can defend the EU when it's bankrupted Greece & Cyprus with Italy, Spain, Ireland and Slovenia not far behind. It takes money directly out of peoples bank accounts. When it's appointed unelected Govts in Greece and Italy and when it ignores referendums until it gets the result it wants. It's an incompetent, undemocratic, corrupt disgrace Successive governments of Greece bankrupted themselves. The EU may have been lax in ensuring rules were being met but it is misleading to say the EU bankrupted Greece, it is simply not true. Ireland got overexcited about a property boom and over-invested, Spain ran a pretty tight ship but have fallen foul of a cyclical deficit and the others, I'm not sure about. One thing I am sure about is the root of all these issues is not the EU, it is banks. They are the incompetent, undemocratic, corrupt disgrace and hundreds of millions are suffering because of their greed inspired gambling.
Deucalion Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 It's giving the guns to the Despots and their cronies and letting them do the shooting. Colonialism is either right or wrong, you can't have it both ways. The British view of colonialism has always been that is is right if Britain is doing it and wrong if someone else is.
Webbo Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 It's the banks fault for lending money to people who asked for it?
Webbo Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 The British view of colonialism has always been that is is right if Britain is doing it and wrong if someone else is. So you're saying it's wrong if Britain does it but okay if somebody else does it?
Deucalion Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 It's the banks fault for lending money to people who asked for it? It's the banks' fault for lending money to people the banks didn't have and taking risks with people's savings. So you're saying it's wrong if Britain does it but okay if somebody else does it? Where have I said that?
leicsmac Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 You say that as if it's not always been the case? It seems more so these days. I think the politicians have got more corrupt. Or perhaps the corruption is move evident and in the open now? I'm not sure. It's giving the guns to the Despots and their cronies and letting them do the shooting. Colonialism is either right or wrong, you can't have it both ways. Why not? Switzerland, Norway, Australia and no doubt others too are are stand alone countries that are doing better than us. I never said it was right. China are doing bad things in Africa, but in a very smart fashion that allows them a certain deniability. Australia are part of the Commonwealth. Norway is certainly an interesting case though - they seem to have got the capitalist/state ownership mix just about right, and their economic model is very good. And they have abundant natural resources with which to base their economy. They're also an active member of the UN (send a lot of peacekeepers about) and the EEC but not the EU. Interesting one...might be a nice model to follow
Webbo Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 It's the banks' fault for lending money to people the banks didn't have and taking risks with people's savings. That doesn't make sense. Where have I said that? So what was your point?
leicsmac Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 It's the banks fault for lending money to people who asked for it? Nah - the banks themselves aren't at fault. Individual speculators and groups of speculators taking horrible risks with other peoples money is what led to this situation.
Deucalion Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 That doesn't make sense. So what was your point? It doesn't make sense so why did they do it? You seem hostile about China's growing influence in Africa but I doubt you are a critic of the British Empire. Am I right?
Vacamion Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 I am Englishman living in Scotland, married to a Scot. Some of my family married Scots and live in England. There are family ties across the border like this all over the UK. Whilst the nations of the UK ARE different, we have a lot more in common than there are differences. As I said in another thread, Scots will laugh at the same jokes, watch the same shit TV, drink the same beers etc etc. If any of you have ever lived abroad, in in the closest foreign countries to the UK, they are completely different to us in a way that makes them, well, weird. The Sweaties, Taffies and Paddies are different to people from Leicester, but only to about the same extent as Cockneys, Geordies and Westcountry people are... The Scots won't vote for independence in September 2014 ("Yes" vote currently holding at 30-odd percent) for these reasons, and also because it would be madness to dive blindly into an unknown economic and political arrangement that might well go tits up. For the same reason, the English would be well advised to maintain the UK rather than going it alone.
Guest Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 The British view of colonialism has always been that is is right if Britain is doing it and wrong if someone else is. That's MY type of thinking.
Webbo Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 It doesn't make sense so why did they do it? You seem hostile about China's growing influence in Africa but I doubt you are a critic of the British Empire. Am I right? The sentence you wrote didn't make sense. I'm sure you had a point but couldn't understand what it was. As for the Empire then obviously it's wrong for one country to dominate and run another country against it's will. What's done is done and can't be undone but I wouldn't want us to run any other country now. Is that alright?
Deucalion Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 I am Englishman living in Scotland, married to a Scot. Some of my family married Scots and live in England. There are family ties across the border like this all over the UK. Whilst the nations of the UK ARE different, we have a lot more in common than there are differences. As I said in another thread, Scots will laugh at the same jokes, watch the same shit TV, drink the same beers etc etc. If any of you have ever lived abroad, in in the closest foreign countries to the UK, they are completely different to us in a way that makes them, well, weird. The Sweaties, Taffies and Paddies are different to people from Leicester, but only to about the same extent as Cockneys, Geordies and Westcountry people are... The Scots won't vote for independence in September 2014 ("Yes" vote currently holding at 30-odd percent) for these reasons, and also because it would be madness to dive blindly into an unknown economic and political arrangement that might well go tits up. For the same reason, the English would be well advised to maintain the UK rather than going it alone. You'll be telling us to live in peace and harmony next. What's wrong with you?
Deucalion Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 The sentence you wrote didn't make sense. I'm sure you had a point but couldn't understand what it was. As for the Empire then obviously it's wrong for one country to dominate and run another country against it's will. What's done is done and can't be undone but I wouldn't want us to run any other country now. Is that alright? Well I knew what I meant, that's the main thing.
Guest Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 It's the banks fault for lending money to people who asked for it? It's the banks fault for lending money to people who were too big a risk to get it back from but that is far from the biggest fault of banks yet I'm sure there is a long thread arguing over this already. I am Englishman living in Scotland, married to a Scot. Some of my family married Scots and live in England. There are family ties across the border like this all over the UK. Whilst the nations of the UK ARE different, we have a lot more in common than there are differences. As I said in another thread, Scots will laugh at the same jokes, watch the same shit TV, drink the same beers etc etc. If any of you have ever lived abroad, in in the closest foreign countries to the UK, they are completely different to us in a way that makes them, well, weird. The Sweaties, Taffies and Paddies are different to people from Leicester, but only to about the same extent as Cockneys, Geordies and Westcountry people are... The Scots won't vote for independence in September 2014 ("Yes" vote currently holding at 30-odd percent) for these reasons, and also because it would be madness to dive blindly into an unknown economic and political arrangement that might well go tits up. For the same reason, the English would be well advised to maintain the UK rather than going it alone. Agree with your main point wholeheartedly but disagree with the highlighted part very strongly. The French are very similar to Brits, just like the Scots, same with the Germans. - same TV, same beer, same jokes, same sex ....
davieG Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 It's the banks fault for lending money to people who were too big a risk to get it back from but that is far from the biggest fault of banks yet I'm sure there is a long thread arguing over this already. Agree with your main point wholeheartedly but disagree with the highlighted part very strongly. The French are very similar to Brits, just like the Scots, same with the Germans. - same TV, same beer, same jokes, same sex .... What all gay?
MooseBreath Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 The entire western world is all pretty much the same cultural gravy. Sure you get chicken flavoured gravy and you get beef flavoured gravy but it the end it's still gravy. Contrast to somewhere like Bangladesh which has an entirely different taste and texture. Being broadly similar in culture to another country is no reason to tie yourself to them economically in my most honest opinion. As for the UK becoming Switzerland, Norway or Australia. Not gonna happen. For one thing the EU wouldn't accept us having the same deal as Norway or Switzerland. Those deals were struck in the past, they won't be struck again. Secondly Switzerland has world banking, Norway has oil and Australia has natural resources which it can sell to China. All we have is London and its crippled financial services industry, and education, which is but a shell of its former self. I don't know what point i'm making with regards to the EU here, but
Daggers Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 I had to laugh at a Scotsman on the Jeremy Vine show this week. He was ranting on about how hated the Tories are in Scotland. He said something like" this bedroom tax is terrible, mind you I can see why they're doing it. It's disgusting that they're doing it, but it is a good idea." You had to laugh at someone moaning about a benefit being cut while you continue to claim your benefits? You know, those working tax and family tax credits that you said you claimed. But it's funny that someone else is moaning about the Tories? Hmm. You benefit-claiming Mail readers really know who the enemy is.
Webbo Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 You had to laugh at someone moaning about a benefit being cut while you continue to claim your benefits? You know, those working tax and family tax credits that you said you claimed. But it's funny that someone else is moaning about the Tories? Hmm. You benefit-claiming Mail readers really know who the enemy is. Keep it up Dags, one day I'll bite.
Daggers Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 I don't give a shit whether you bite or not - just happy pointing out your idiotic double standards.
Daggers Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 But then I don't pontificate based on double standards and pig-ignorance.
ADK Posted 30 March 2013 Posted 30 March 2013 I'd prefer a unified GB&Ireland independant from the EU.
Daggers Posted 31 March 2013 Posted 31 March 2013 Yea. The reason shit go down is da damn EU. Day de reason for de workin man suffrin, blud.
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