Labour admits the Tories were right all along

[MooseBreath]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23010073

Labour finally opens up to the "hard reality" of running a country and admit that they would simply continue with what the tories have started, as they can see no better way of doing things.

The lib dems were making noises about not being so fanciful anymore too, which would be interesting if they were still relevant.

What do they say about imitation and flattery? The tories must be loving this. Their main rivals practically admitting that they have nothing to offer.

Hope everyone remembers this 'tap out' when the good times roll and labour start making ridiculous promises again.

[Captain...]

Not exactly what they have said, and by that I mean not even close to what they have said. At no point do they say the Tories are right, just that when they come to power they will not be able to undo the cuts without finding the money from somewhere. If we use a footballing analogy, Nigel Pearson can't buy any players until he sells Sven's shit signings, that does not mean he agrees whith Sven's signings, just that he has deal with the aftermath of that shit.

[MooseBreath]

Not exactly what they have said, and by that I mean not even close to what they have said. At no point do they say the Tories are right, just that when they come to power they will not be able to undo the cuts without finding the money from somewhere. If we use a footballing analogy, Nigel Pearson can't buy any players until he sells Sven's shit signings, that does not mean he agrees whith Sven's signings, just that he has deal with the aftermath of that shit.

"Without finding the money from somewhere." Exactly. Whereas previously they would have just borrowed more and more and splashed out on budget rises all over the place. They now realise that money isn't just going to appear. They can't continue to spend money which they don't have. Which is what the tories have been saying all along. It is a clear admittance from Labour that they fully support Tory economic policy, and for my money, I would suggest Labour are subtly pulling out of the running for the next election. They'll happily sit by and let the tories spend eight years cleaning up the mess they left behind and then they'll swoop in as soon as the good times start to roll and start promising the earth again. Textbook labour.

[Captain...]

"Without finding the money from somewhere." Exactly. Whereas previously they would have just borrowed more and more and splashed out on budget rises all over the place. They now realise that money isn't just going to appear. They can't continue to spend money which they don't have. Which is what the tories have been saying all along. It is a clear admittance from Labour that they fully support Tory economic policy, and for my money, I would suggest Labour are subtly pulling out of the running for the next election. They'll happily sit by and let the tories spend eight years cleaning up the mess they left behind and then they'll swoop in as soon as the good times start to roll and start promising the earth again. Textbook labour.

You are an imaginative young fellow aren't you.

[Jon the Hat]

Moose is right in fact. If they really believed that the cuts are the wrong path as they have saying for three years, then they would be promising to revise spending in the year after the election. There hasn't been any money in these three years, so what changes in 2015 to make the cuts suddenly the right thing? Nothing changes. They have been lying as usual, telling their voters what they want to hear.

[Rincewind]

This is what he said. I don't want others to get the wrong impression.

 

The Labour leader will tell the Birmingham conference: “If we win the election, we will come to power in tougher economic circumstances than we have seen in generations and that will have to shape the way we govern.  Our starting point for 2015-16 will be that we cannot reverse any cut in day-to-day, current spending unless it is fully funded from cuts elsewhere or extra revenue – not from more borrowing.â€

In an unpalatable message for some Labour MPs, trade unionists and party members in his audience, Mr Miliband will say: “People will only put their hope in us if we show how we will make a difference. But people will only put their trust in us if we show we are credible. Only if we have the discipline to face the challenge of our times, can we change the direction of our country.â€

 

 

So they are not saying the Tories are right just that they would have to ensure a structure was in place first.

[Jimothy]

Moose is right in fact. If they really believed that the cuts are the wrong path as they have saying for three years, then they would be promising to revise spending in the year after the election. There hasn't been any money in these three years, so what changes in 2015 to make the cuts suddenly the right thing? Nothing changes. They have been lying as usual, telling their voters what they want to hear.

Well that's a shock coming from the man who would probably agree if the Tories proposed to legalise Paedophilia!

[MooseBreath]

Another telling quote in there is "only if we have the discipline to face the challenges of our times". As a political party, facing challenges shouldn't require a specific amount of discipline. Facing challenges is the job. What have labour been doing in the past when they've not been disciplined enough to face up to problems? Ignoring them and hoping they'll go away by themselves maybe. The old carpet sweeping technique again.

[Jon the Hat]

This is what he said. I don't want others to get the wrong impression.

The Labour leader will tell the Birmingham conference: “If we win the election, we will come to power in tougher economic circumstances than we have seen in generations and that will have to shape the way we govern. Our starting point for 2015-16 will be that we cannot reverse any cut in day-to-day, current spending unless it is fully funded from cuts elsewhere or extra revenue – not from more borrowing.â€

In an unpalatable message for some Labour MPs, trade unionists and party members in his audience, Mr Miliband will say: “People will only put their hope in us if we show how we will make a difference. But people will only put their trust in us if we show we are credible. Only if we have the discipline to face the challenge of our times, can we change the direction of our country.â€

So they are not saying the Tories are right just that they would have to ensure a structure was in place first.

So the fact that they have been saying we should increase borrowing and the Tories are wrong to cut, and now they are saying they would not increase borrowing and keep the cuts doesn't strike you as a complete about face?

[Jon the Hat]

Well that's a shock coming from the man who would probably agree if the Tories proposed to legalise Paedophilia!

Don't be a dick. Plenty of idiots on both sides and I don't agree with a lot of things the Tories have tried, but I do share the philosophy.

[Rincewind]

Anyway I don't see much difference in the parties or politicians. They get into power by pampering up to the NIMBY's. The rest of society do not matter to them.

[Strokes]

Don't be a dick. Plenty of idiots on both sides and I don't agree with a lot of things the Tories have tried, but I do share the philosophy.

It's ok, when a labour supporter gets stuck in an argument, they often try to smear. Both parties offer nothing, which is lovely.

[Jimothy]

Don't be a dick. Plenty of idiots on both sides and I don't agree with a lot of things the Tories have tried, but I do share the philosophy.

I'm not being a dick, I've never seen you disagree with them on here. Pretty sure you even talked them up when they've done so many u-turns they've ended up going up there own arses.

[Captain...]

Moose is right in fact. If they really believed that the cuts are the wrong path as they have saying for three years, then they would be promising to revise spending in the year after the election. There hasn't been any money in these three years, so what changes in 2015 to make the cuts suddenly the right thing? Nothing changes. They have been lying as usual, telling their voters what they want to hear.

The cuts were the wrong path at the time, but should labour win the next election it would be madness after 5 years of brutal cuts and austerity to just borrow a fvck load of money and just undo any deficit lowering and debt reductions we have endured with these cuts by just borrowing money. The fact that debt and deficit is still going up is very worrying, but that is another issue, the idea that labour and Tory have to oppose each other is one of the most frustrating thing about UK politics, if they could attempt to work together and have some cohesive joined up thinking rather than just setting about undoing everything the other party has done during their term in office then maybe we would be better off.

In this case though moose is wrong, Labour do not agree with what the Tories have done, they just think that attempting to undo the Tory cuts and borrowing money will be more damaging than pursuing this course of austerity after 5 years of it.

[leicsmac]

The important thing is getting the money moving again. No ones buying, so businesses are still having to shed jobs. People are scared and they're trying to put money away, but if they don't spend it, it's going to become worthless anyway. Mass unemployment = more people on benefits = bigger drain on less taxpayers. There needs to be some way to incentivise companies to take on more staff and make work pay.

 

As for 2015 - get your readies on another hung Parliament. Cameron will be too unpopular to win, but Milliband will be too limp-wristed to win. So a hung Parliament, and this time no Lib Dems to form a coalition with. That will be interesting.

[Rincewind]

The cuts are not working. They are hitting the most vulnerable. Children, pensioners, disabled etc. The benefits claimed by unemployed is I believe only around 6% of thje benefit budget yet they are being blamed. The hardest hit are low wage earners and crisis loans have risen and more min wage and part time workers are on the breadline.

A little tweeking is now needed and that is what Labour are saying. They have to see where they can make adjustments without making the economy worse.

[Webbo]

Now if only we could get the Labour supporters to admit they were wrong as well.

[leicsmac]

Now if only we could get the Labour supporters to admit they were wrong as well.

 

Afraid not - there will always be people who think rich/poor divide and the vast majority of the worlds wealth being concentrated in the hands of the vast minority with very little hard work having been done to attain it will always be wrong.

 

Not that I don't agree that at least some cuts were necessary, but the Tories seem intent on applying these cuts across ideological grounds, not practical ones. That being said, they're looking to appeal to their supporters, just like any other political party.

[Rincewind]

If it was not for the stereo typing and misconceptions to justify some of the cuts and supported and portrayed by some newspapers maybe some Tory supporters would agree that some cuts have been unfavourable to the most vulnerable.

I am sure they would rather be spending money on goods on the High Street rathger than on rising utility bills like heating. I can understand them feeling it is unfair when they read about bonuses being paid to bank bosses after being fired for making huge balls up. If a normal working bloke makes a mistake they are fired not rewarded.

[The God Emperor]

the thing is though the tories are doing the same things that the previous labour governments did. osbournes help to buy scheme mirrors what the previous labour governments did which created the housing bubble that led to the banking crises. neither party will do anything different to the other because the status quo benefits them just fine. Parliament have become the aristocrats of today.  

[MooseBreath]

Afraid not - there will always be people who think rich/poor divide and the vast majority of the worlds wealth being concentrated in the hands of the vast minority with very little hard work having been done to attain it will always be wrong.

Not that I don't agree that at least some cuts were necessary, but the Tories seem intent on applying these cuts across ideological grounds, not practical ones. That being said, they're looking to appeal to their supporters, just like any other political party.

If you are such a fan of the idea of redistribution of wealth to those who have done more to deserve it then why are you a labour supporter?

Labour simply gift money to people who have done absolutely nothing to deserve it, while as we've seen, along with the lib dems the tories have stopped giving away so much money and instead rewarded work by raising the tax free allowance. That takes money out of the hands of people who have done "very little hard work" and puts it straight into the hands of the hard workers on low to mid salaries. Isn't that exactly what you want?

[Rincewind]

[Captain...]

If you are such a fan of the idea of redistribution of wealth to those who have done more to deserve it then why are you a labour supporter?

Labour simply gift money to people who have done absolutely nothing to deserve it, while as we've seen, along with the lib dems the tories have stopped giving away so much money and instead rewarded work by raising the tax free allowance. That takes money out of the hands of people who have done "very little hard work" and puts it straight into the hands of the hard workers on low to mid salaries. Isn't that exactly what you want?

Not exactly how it happened, the Tories wanted to lower the top rate of tax, and the lib dems would only support it if they increased the tax free relief. It was not, never has been, and never will be a Tory policy. If you support the redistribution of wealth then you should really support the lib dems, shame they are a bunch of spineless little turds, they need some serious rebranding before the next election, or just spout some populist shite on immigration and Europe.

[Rincewind]

Labour simply gift money to people who have done absolutely nothing to deserve it,

 

Doctors, nurses, care workers, shop workers, teachers and other low paid workers.

[Guest]

Labour simply gift money to people who have done absolutely nothing to deserve it,

Doctors, nurses, care workers, shop workers, teachers and other low paid workers.

Let's not forget flooding the NHS with middle management under the last labour government too.