Captain... Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 Have you even read the article?, it was a remote shack he found him in on his land with her. Living Room? wtf No I wouldn't have stopped him, had I found out at the same time I would have had a problem controlling my actions had I knew I was standing near a man who had done that to an innocent young girl. Revenge is justice in many cases, the law isn't justice in far too many cases. But revenge can also be a sorry tragedy in many cases. Obviously not in this case, but I don't see this as revenge, to me revenge implies planning and thought and deliberacy of actions. As for would I stop him killing the man? If I walked in on a man beating another man to death I think I would instinctively try and stop it. Not knowing the circumstances. If after stopping it the other man explained what happened, as long as the rapist was sufficiently incapacitated and not going anywhere I would call the police. I would also try to stop him from killing the rapist, mainly for his good, not the rapist, killing a man has many repercussions, legal and psychological, and I wouldn't just let one man kill another.
ScouseFox Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 Justice works in amazing ways... Rapist may have HIV from Greater Manchester victimhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-23935768
Captain... Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 Justice works in amazing ways... Rapist may have HIV from Greater Manchester victim http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-23935768 Great news, a violent predatory rapist now has HIV.
Guest MattP Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 But revenge can also be a sorry tragedy in many cases. Obviously not in this case, but I don't see this as revenge, to me revenge implies planning and thought and deliberacy of actions. As for would I stop him killing the man? If I walked in on a man beating another man to death I think I would instinctively try and stop it. Not knowing the circumstances. If after stopping it the other man explained what happened, as long as the rapist was sufficiently incapacitated and not going anywhere I would call the police. I would also try to stop him from killing the rapist, mainly for his good, not the rapist, killing a man has many repercussions, legal and psychological, and I wouldn't just let one man kill another. Of course it can be, but in this case it wasn't, in any case like this it wouldn't be when you have caught the guy red handed. Great news, a violent predatory rapist now has HIV. Only a problem if you let him out.
ScouseFox Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 Great news, a violent predatory rapist now has HIV. Let's hope he gets to work on some other prisoners while he's inside
DennisNedry Posted 4 September 2013 Author Posted 4 September 2013 Of course it can be, but in this case it wasn't, in any case like this it wouldn't be when you have caught the guy red handed. Only a problem if you let him out. You can bet your life he'll be out in less than 10 years. Assuming he did contract HIV, the real travesty is that he will now be given thousands of pounds worth of treatment at the expense of the NHS. I'll sleep well tonight knowing that my NI could well be going towards curing a rapist.
Rincewind Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 Good answer Matt. I never realised it was a remote location I had always thought it was the blokes house and he walked from one room to another. Sorry. The way I understood it the place was a close knit community. What if the other blokes thought like you and even the cop that was called? The may have been drinking buddy's at the monthly Hoedown. If you were a copper in that situation would you commit perjury for the sake of self.-administered justice. Just trying to see things from a broader perspective. How far should we let an incident like this go and what happens the next time, will they use this case as a precedent?
Guest MattP Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 Good answer Matt. I never realised it was a remote location I had always thought it was the blokes house and he walked from one room to another. Sorry. The way I understood it the place was a close knit community. What if the other blokes thought like you and even the cop that was called? The may have been drinking buddy's at the monthly Hoedown. If you were a copper in that situation would you commit perjury for the sake of self.-administered justice. Just trying to see things from a broader perspective. How far should we let an incident like this go and what happens the next time, will they use this case as a precedent? Monthy Hoedown? No idea if it will be used as a precedent, I'm quite ok for society and the law to say if you catch your 5 year daughter being raped you can beat the culprit to death.
purpleronnie Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 Monthy Hoedown? No idea if it will be used as a precedent, I'm quite ok for society and the law to say if you catch your 5 year daughter being raped you can beat the culprit to death. As shocking as it maybe I'm sure if that indeed was a law, then people would be murdered and the muderer would lie and say its because I caught them raping my daughter.
Guest MattP Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 As shocking as it maybe I'm sure if that indeed was a law, then people would be murdered and the muderer would lie and say its because I caught them raping my daughter. Pretty sure they conducted tests on the daughter.
Rincewind Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 As shocking as it maybe I'm sure if that indeed was a law, then people would be murdered and the muderer would lie and say its because I caught them raping my daughter. That was my point.
leicsmac Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 Pretty sure they conducted tests on the daughter. And if in a similar future situation they conduct the same tests and find out it was a load of bollocks? The murderer gets locked up as if it was a stock murder case, I guess. However allowing 'justifiable' murder without due process in this way opens the door for all kinds of vigilantism. In a place like the US where police response times to incidents like this are much bigger you could get away with it, but here? No thanks, regardless of the crime it should be proven before punishment is administered. Once it has been proven, then vengeance could be had, if you wanted.
Guest MattP Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 And if in a similar future situation they conduct the same tests and find out it was a load of bollocks? Well the the one who did the killing has some serious questions to answer about why he was lying about child rape and then killed somebody. It appears in this case he didn't have those questions to answer as it was happening. I really don't see why this is so complicated.
Guest MattP Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 . Once it has been proven, then vengeance could be had, if you wanted. No you can't, I would have to sit there watch the guy get some pisspoor sentence from an out of touch judge and then if I delivered real justice I would go to prison for longer than him. This is why people get so angry, judging by recent cases would it surprise anyone if the judges were all at it? Everyone else seems to be.
leicsmac Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 Well the the one who did the killing has some serious questions to answer about why he was lying about child rape and then killed somebody. It appears in this case he didn't have those questions to answer as it was happening. I really don't see why this is so complicated. It's not complicated for this particular case, but if this sets a precedent for future cases then it could get complicated for those. That's my point, really.
Rincewind Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 And if in a similar future situation they conduct the same tests and find out it was a load of bollocks? The murderer gets locked up as if it was a stock murder case, I guess. However allowing 'justifiable' murder without due process in this way opens the door for all kinds of vigilantism. In a place like the US where police response times to incidents like this are much bigger you could get away with it, but here? No thanks, regardless of the crime it should be proven before punishment is administered. Once it has been proven, then vengeance could be had, if you wanted. Agreed
Guest MattP Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 It's not complicated for this particular case, but if this sets a precedent for future cases then it could get complicated for those. That's my point, really. I think it's far more simplier than you are making it. This is fairly clear cut.
leicsmac Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 No you can't, I would have to sit there watch the guy get some pisspoor sentence from an out of touch judge and then if I delivered real justice I would go to prison for longer than him. I mean personal vengeance. For that kind of offence I would actually give the family of the party a few punishment-free minutes with the accused before being sent down. Either that or make sure he's comfy in jail next to a 20-stone lifer with a taste for new flesh.
Guest MattP Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 I mean personal vengeance. For that kind of offence I would actually give the family of the party a few punishment-free minutes with the accused before being sent down. Either that or make sure he's comfy in jail next to a 20-stone lifer with a taste for new flesh. Now you are talking my language.
leicsmac Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 I think it's far more simplier than you are making it. This is fairly clear cut. I'm not sure it is, and I think it could be a can of worms further down the line unless the legislation was utterly watertight.
leicsmac Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 Now you are talking my language. Right. Honestly, scum like that deserve everything that's coming to them - but I'd like to see it proven in court every time before they get it.
Rincewind Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 It would be simple if everyone thought the same
Captain... Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 I think it's far more simplier than you are making it. This is fairly clear cut. I think leicsmac is referring to your comment about making it legal to murder someone who rapes your child. Which I agree with him on, this is not carte blanche to murder rapists. In this case I don't think it could be used as precedent as no trial has taken place so no ruling has been given. It was deemed there is no case to answer, and rightly so. If it had gone to court though and he was deemed not guilty, then it could only be used as future precedent for identical cases, if a man catches a rapist, scares him off then goes after him and kills him, it wouldn't be covered by this precedent, at least not in English law anyway.
Webbo Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 I mean personal vengeance. For that kind of offence I would actually give the family of the party a few punishment-free minutes with the accused before being sent down. Either that or make sure he's comfy in jail next to a 20-stone lifer with a taste for new flesh. What is the 20 stone lifer in jail for and why should he have access to his own personal bitch?
leicsmac Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 What is the 20 stone lifer in jail for and why should he have access to his own personal bitch? Good behaviour? Yeah, in all seriousness I was being a bit hyperbolic there - you can't exactly push through prison, erm "activities" into legislation. I do however think that punishments for proven offences of this kind should be treated very harshly.
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