They're now invading us.

[Webbo]

Ok we brought it with us and enslaved thousands, but you are right slavery already existed in African nations before we turned up, well done, you have decided to pick up on semantics rather than repsond to the point being made.

Your point was completely wrong.

[Guest MattP]

Ok we brought it with us and enslaved thousands, but you are right slavery already existed in African nations before we turned up, well done, you have decided to pick up on semantics rather than repsond to the point being made.

 

The point was completely pointless in the grand scheme of things.

[Guest Bilo]

Ok we brought it with us and enslaved thousands, but you are right slavery already existed in African nations before we turned up, well done, you have decided to pick up on semantics rather than repsond to the point being made.

 

Your argument was 'we introduced slavery.'

 

Pointing out an argument as being factually incorrect is nothing to do with semantics.

 

If you were saying we introduced it to North America or the New World, you're wrong. It was the Spanish who introduced it to Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Cuba more than 100 years before the British even got kicking.

 

It's not even correct in terms of what would become the US, that again was the Spanish.

[Captain...]

Your point was completely wrong.

 

 

The point was completely pointless in the grand scheme of things.

 

The point was badly expressed as I wasn't really paying much attention, but the point remains, creditting us with abolishing slavery when we enslaved thousands and transported them from their own country half way around the world.

 

You can argue that I made it badly, but it is not pointless, whereas glossing over all the horrendous things we did in the name of the Empire and our own advancement is.

[Captain...]

Your argument was 'we introduced slavery.'

 

Pointing out an argument as being factually incorrect is nothing to do with semantics.

 

If you were saying we introduced it to North America or the New World, you're wrong. It was the Spanish who introduced it to Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Cuba more than 100 years before the British even got kicking.

 

It's not even correct in terms of what would become the US, that again was the Spanish.

 

The point was not that we were the first to ever enslave anyone, the point was we turned up and enslaved thousands, so crediting us with abolishing it after we brought it with us is a bit obtuse.

[Guest Bilo]

The point was badly expressed as I wasn't really paying much attention, but the point remains, creditting us with abolishing slavery when we enslaved thousands and transported them from their own country half way around the world.

 

You can argue that I made it badly, but it is not pointless, whereas glossing over all the horrendous things we did in the name of the Empire and our own advancement is.

 

It's not glossing over it.

 

We teach our kids about Britain's role in the slave trade extensively and make a great deal of the humanitarian evil that it was, as well as the abolitionist movement.

 

What we actually don't teach in the same great detail is the fact that the Royal Navy spent the next fifty odd years intercepting slave ships, freeing hundreds of thousands of Africans in the process.

 

You could argue it's the aftermath of the slave trade we as a nation 'gloss over' rather than Britain's role in it pre abolition.

[Guest Bilo]

The point was not that we were the first to ever enslave anyone, the point was we turned up and enslaved thousands, so crediting us with abolishing it after we brought it with us is a bit obtuse.

 

Again though, we were far from unique in having slavery during the days of Empire. Literally every other major power has imposed slavery at some point in history. Germany, China, Japan, Spain, Portugal and even Belgium have skeletons in their closet, most a hell of a lot more recent than our own.

 

What we are more or less unique in though is the Royal Navy's anti-slavery actions after abolition.

[Finnegan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE

[Guest MattP]

It's not glossing over it.

 

We teach our kids about Britain's role in the slave trade extensively and make a great deal of the humanitarian evil that it was, as well as the abolitionist movement.

 

What we actually don't teach in the same great detail is the fact that the Royal Navy spent the next fifty odd years intercepting slave ships, freeing hundreds of thousands of Africans in the process.

 

You could argue it's the aftermath of the slave trade we as a nation 'gloss over' rather than Britain's role in it pre abolition.

 

Super post.

 

Such a shame we tend teach our children about guilt and shame when it comes to what our nation has done than the positives it has brought upon the World.

 

Unfortunately, seems to be the hidden agenda of a lot of people pulling the strings.

[Finnegan]

Super post.

 

Such a shame we tend teach our children about guilt and shame when it comes to what our nation has done than the positives it has brought upon the World.

 

Unfortunately, seems to be the hidden agenda of a lot of people pulling the strings.

 

Alright, Empty, I'll bite.

 

Who's pulling the strings, what's their agenda and why would our feeling guilty help their evil cause?

[Captain...]

It's not glossing over it.

 

We teach our kids about Britain's role in the slave trade extensively and make a great deal of the humanitarian evil that it was, as well as the abolitionist movement.

 

What we actually don't teach in the same great detail is the fact that the Royal Navy spent the next fifty odd years intercepting slave ships, freeing hundreds of thousands of Africans in the process.

 

You could argue it's the aftermath of the slave trade we as a nation 'gloss over' rather than Britain's role in it pre abolition.

 

That's a fair enough point, to be honest the whole of that period was glossed over in my education, slavery and the abolishment, my post was merely a response to Rod Hull, in that it was not all good stuff, and you could argue that it was our duty to abolish slavery, but I'm not going to bother, I'll back down on this one and say your right I'm wrong we should celebrate more what we did a lot to end slavery, but we shouldn't forget the atrocities either.

Alright, Empty, I'll bite.

 

Who's pulling the strings, what's their agenda and why would our feeling guilty help their evil cause?

 

It was Thatcher in my day, I blame her for my poor education and weak bones.

[Guest Bilo]

That's a fair enough point, to be honest the whole of that period was glossed over in my education, slavery and the abolishment, my post was merely a response to Rod Hull, in that it was not all good stuff, and you could argue that it was our duty to abolish slavery, but I'm not going to bother, I'll back down on this one and say your right I'm wrong we should celebrate more what we did a lot to end slavery, but we shouldn't forget the atrocities either.

 

I absolutely agree we should never forget the atrocities. I think slavery is the greatest crime the British Empire ever committed.

 

Fighting slavery after abolition should have been the duty of every country that had it before, but it was pretty much only Britain that could be arsed. We should take pride in that at least, just as Germany should take pride in its post-war economic miracle and vibrant democracy. It's certainly better than wearing the hair shirt forever more over the Third Reich.

[lavrentis]

A lot of those pink areas on the map are pushing it really

It also missed a part of Antarctica which we have claim too

[Guest MattP]

Alright, Empty, I'll bite.

 

Who's pulling the strings, what's their agenda and why would our feeling guilty help their evil cause?

 

These people who who seem to feel being British is something to be ashamed of, the Ken Livingstones, the Medhi Hasans and their ilk of the World. Have a watch of Red Ken crying his eyes out apologising for the Slave Trade. Have a look at these lunatics on any picket line with the 'No Borders' SWP signs, judging by recent examples it appears more than the fair share of these are connected to the teaching profession.

 

It's the ones you see on Question Time asking "What is being British?" if you dare to suggest anything to do what our values are, the ones who cry so desperately "did you know St George was a Turk etc" when you mention that maybe we should celebrate something on April 23rd.

 

Plenty of these sorts about, just open you eyes, if you can't see them then maybe you are one and make comments such as those like CPF did, they can't wait to remind or preach on our horrific past but have never been heard to mention the good.

 

More kids will come out of school these days knowing who Stephen Lawrence is than Nelson, because guilt is an a very British thing in the eyes of a lot of people.

[Finnegan]

So by people pulling the strings you just mean normal people who have a different opinion to you? 

[Guest MattP]

So by people pulling the strings you just mean normal people who have a different opinion to you? 

 

And who will use their position to try influence others to the same view.

[Finnegan]

And who will use their position to try influence others to the same view.

 

Do the right-wing media not do that as well then?

[Webbo]

Do the right-wing media not do that as well then?

But you condemn the rightwing media ,ordinary people with a different opinion to you.

[Guest MattP]

Do the right-wing media not do that as well then?

 

Bit of a difference though isn't it? i don't think the Daily Mail is forced upon impressionable young children in the classroom.

 

I remember the soppy left wing newspaper cuttings we were given in school. No idea what they hand out now.

[Finnegan]

But you condemn the rightwing media ,ordinary people with a different opinion to you.

 

I condemn most politically biased news media, to be honest. 

 

But I'm not the one complaining about an imaginary "They." It was very BoneHead of Matt.

Bit of a difference though isn't it? i don't think the Daily Mail is forced upon impressionable young children in the classroom.

 

I remember the soppy left wing newspaper cuttings we were given in school. No idea what they hand out now.

 

No, but I'm sure there are teachers that are socially right-leaning. In fact, I know one or two.

 

I also had a great lesbian, feminist, socialist English Literature teacher at Sixth Form who  made absolutely no effort to push her opinions on anyone. In fact, she was actively interested in encouraging people to look at both sides of an argument before deciding for themselves. You can be a teacher with political opinions with indoctrinating children.

[Webbo]

 

 

 

 

No, but I'm sure there are teachers that are socially right-leaning. In fact, I know one or two.

In my experience, even when I was at school, pre Thatcher, most teachers were left wing. Fortunately, because of our bolshy British attitude or the fact that they were mainly crap teachers nobody took any notice of them. 

[Guest MattP]

I also had a great lesbian, feminist, socialist English Literature teacher at Sixth Form who  made absolutely no effort to push her opinions on anyone. In fact, she was actively interested in encouraging people to look at both sides of an argument before deciding for themselves. You can be a teacher with political opinions with indoctrinating children.

 

I admire the fact you managed to find out she was a Lesbian feminist without her pushing opinions on anyone.

 

A really good politics lecturer will still have you guessing what they support and what they don't having taught you for a couple of years, the best teacher I ever had told me that.

[Finnegan]

I admire the fact you managed to find out she was a Lesbian feminist without her pushing opinions on anyone.

 

A really good politics lecturer will still have you guessing what they support and what they don't having taught you for a couple of years, the best teacher I ever had told me that.

 

So if a teacher is openly homosexual they're trying to convert the kids?

[Webbo]

So if a teacher is openly homosexual they're trying to convert the kids?

Don't be obtuse, you said;

I also had a great lesbian, feminist, socialist English Literature teacher at Sixth Form

 

How did you know she was a feminist socialist if she didn't give you her opinion?

[Guest MattP]

So if a teacher is openly homosexual they're trying to convert the kids?

 

How would a class know if you are openly homosexual?

 

Why would a teacher announce anything to do with their private life to a class?