Benefits Street

[Guest MattP]

 

I'm sure they have "sympathetic friends" in TV and mainstream media  very capable of subtlety altering  viewers/readers perspectives.  They don't need total control

 

IDS paraphrased , 

 

We have a big problem of people living on  benefit and i've known this for a long time and we need to "free" them  from the shackles of lefty ideology,

 But of course you people are probably unaware of the scale of the problem and live sheltered from it .

 

 But look !!! as if by magic . hey presto !! Benefits Street just comes along and is proving how right I am 

 

 

Except it isn't fabricated is it? People have known for years this has been going on (fair enough it was a tiny section of society until Gordon Brown did to them what water does to Gremlins but it still went on) but it's only the people like Rincewind that have genuinely believed the whole thing is faked.

 

It's a fashionable topic and that's why they did the show, I'm glad they did, it finally showed once and for all to a nation what these people have been allowed to get away and in reality that's why the Owen Jones etc of the World don't like it, they never wanted to believe this and they make money out of defending it themselves.

 

The government obviously arent in Channel 4's pocket, that doesnt need explaining to anyone with a basic knowledge of politics, as Moose said they tried to destroy IDS a while back who is in charge of these reforms.

[Rincewind]

I am not saying these people on Benefits Street do not exist but they are not representative of the majority on benefits.

Will they now do a programme which includes a mother whose husband has left and is trying to bring a small child up as well as doing one or more part time jobs paying out for child care plus food and heating? I doubt it because it won't  make good TV.
But this is a thread for benefit claimants knockers so I'll leave you to it.

[Captain...]

yes , but who has the greatest  influence on the zeitgeist ? you ? me? residents of JT Street ? or the gov and medja itself ?

 

Of course, but that is why I said it was a causal link rather than direct. El Gobierno are to some extent setting the agenda by constantly talking about benefits, whilst not really saying what they are doing to improve the situation. The cynic would say the plan is to get people so worked up about it, that when the hardline manifesto comes out people lap it up and it is a real vote winner. Thus giving them carte blanche to impose much harsher restrictions on benefits, rather than trying to create a progressive and forward thinking system of benefits and welfare.

[Alf Bentley]

yes , but who has the greatest  influence on the zeitgeist ? you ? me? residents of JT Street ? or the gov and meedja itself ?

 

Good question....

 

Channel 4 has just picked up on an issue that was already high on the agenda of public debate - and has produced quite a balanced, thought-provoking, sometimes frustrating, sometimes moving, even entertaining series.

 

How that issue ("scroungers, downtrodden or something more complex") came to be high on the agenda is more interesting.

 

I'd say that it starts with Joe Public. Most people, to varying degrees, have a base instinct to lash out at an easy, often unjustified target (the poor, the rich, immigrants, young people, babyboomers etc.). The meedja and the politician then come along and cynically exploit that base instinct, inflaming resentments in order to gain votes or sales, respectively.

[Alf Bentley]

I am not saying these people on Benefits Street do not exist but they are not representative of the majority on benefits.

Will they now do a programme which includes a mother whose husband has left and is trying to bring a small child up as well as doing one or more part time jobs paying out for child care plus food and heating? I doubt it because it won't  make good TV.

But this is a thread for benefit claimants knockers so I'll leave you to it.

 

Try watching this very good series!

 

It features someone in precisely that situation (SB, the black single mother who has been a victim of domestic abuse, who aspires to be a model but gets a job in a takeaway and is clearly a very responsible mother).

[Rincewind]

Saw an article that was saying more people are now claiming hardshio and emergency payments which is costing extra. Not had the chance to read it yet. Sure it can be found out there somewhere. I don't think it was the Guardian though. Or any mainstream media.

 

Edited

[Captain...]

I am not saying these people on Benefits Street do not exist but they are not representative of the majority on benefits.

Will they now do a programme which includes a mother whose husband has left and is trying to bring a small child up as well as doing one or more part time jobs paying out for child care plus food and heating? I doubt it because it won't  make good TV.

But this is a thread for benefit claimants knockers so I'll leave you to it.

 

I agree with what you are saying, but they did include a single mother last night, a victim of domestic violence, trying to find work as a model, whilst also working in take away part-time.

 

It is sensationalist and it is not representative of all people on benefits, but it is trying to show those people entrenched in benefits, the pitiful, the lazy, the desperate, the unfortunate, the unemployable. People who can't find work through a temporary change in circumstances are not the problem, which is the majority of those on benefits, it is those that are stuck in the system claiming and not giving anything back. Whilst they are not representative of all they are enough ammunition for the government to impose further cuts and restrictions affecting those that need it.

[Strokes]

I am not saying these people on Benefits Street do not exist but they are not representative of the majority on benefits.

Will they now do a programme which includes a mother whose husband has left and is trying to bring a small child up as well as doing one or more part time jobs paying out for child care plus food and heating? I doubt it because it won't make good TV.

But this is a thread for benefit claimants knockers so I'll leave you to it.

Nobody is knocking all benifit claiments, just those that won't try. Hell I claim working tax credits but I don't class myself in the same catergory as the welfare dependant. Their are many people stuck on benefits that are desperate to come off and need support but slip under the net because this lot are scheming and cheating their way through life. We must help those that want it and cut loose those that don't.

[Rincewind]

Try watching this very good series!

 

It features someone in precisely that situation (SB, the black single mother who has been a victim of domestic abuse, who aspires to be a model but gets a job in a takeaway and is clearly a very responsible mother).

All I have seen mentioned are the Dee's and Fungus. Apologies if I missed the mention of her.

[Guest MattP]

Zing, channel 4 are just tapping into the zeitgeist, but the reason why this is such a popular topic is down to the governemnt's constant poor bashing, there is not a direct link between poverty porn and the tories, but a causal link. The more the governemnt bang on about it, and the Daily Mail whip everyone up into a fervour over these benefit cheats, scumbags and scroungers, the more likely Channel 4 will pick it up and run with it, it is an independent broadcaster reliant on viewing figures for revenue.

 

@Alf, was going to say the same about Clegg, the voice of reason, and a man I did agree with a lot before he sold his soul for a shot at power, a real disappointment, UKIP fans will know what I mean in a few years if/when Farage actually gets a chance to make a differnce and fails spectacularly. Chewed up and spat out by the entrenched powers that be and the corrupt political system we live in.

 

Can you go one thread without mentioning the Mail? You say I'm getting boring and unoriginal.

 

Farage has knocked back talks with the Tories already but it wouldn't bother me if he got in bed with them considering it could turn the party further to the right. if he ever propped up Labour though I could never forgive him.

 

Nick Clegg will be fine and history will be very kind to him, he has put through a policy that everyone under 10k no pays no tax which was a personal passion of his, added to that he is looking like being part of a very successful coalition that is dragging the country out of a mess into a very strong economy, he should be very proud, not many Lib Dems would destroy themselves and their party to put their country first and he did. He shall be remembered fondly even if a few students who seemed to think wanting more free money to loaf about was the more concerning issue the country had won't.

I am not saying these people on Benefits Street do not exist but they are not representative of the majority on benefits.

Will they now do a programme which includes a mother whose husband has left and is trying to bring a small child up as well as doing one or more part time jobs paying out for child care plus food and heating? I doubt it because it won't  make good TV.

 

 

That's pretty much what the program is if you actually watch it.

[Captain...]

Nobody is knocking all benifit claiments, just those that won't try. Hell I claim working tax credits but I don't class myself in the same catergory as the welfare dependant. Their are many people stuck on benefits that are desperate to come off and need support but slip under the net because this lot are scheming and cheating their way through life. We must help those that want it and cut loose those that don't.

 

Scrounger

 

What are the criteria for claiming working tax credit?

 

I was with you until you said cut them loose, those that are cheating the system are ruining it for those that actually need benefits, but we need to try and change attitudes, because the problem is not just the people living on benefits, they often have children and cutting them loose is not the good for anyone.

[Guest MattP]

I agree with what you are saying

How may I ask given that it's completely factually wrong and you have singled that out yourself?

[Guest MattP]

All I have seen mentioned are the Dee's and Fungus. Apologies if I missed the mention of her.

 

Maybe watching the show might be a good idea given you want to debate in this thread?

 

Just an idea given your passion for getting out, meeting people, knowing the full facts and not jumping to conclusions on hearsay.

[Strokes]

Can you go one thread without mentioning the Mail? You say I'm getting boring and unoriginal.

Farage has knocked back talks with the Tories already but it wouldn't bother me if he got in bed with them considering it could turn the party further to the right. if he ever propped up Labour though I could never forgive him.

Nick Clegg will be fine and history will be very kind to him, he has put through a policy that everyone under 10k no pays no tax which was a personal passion of his, added to that he is looking like being part of a very successful coalition that is dragging the country out of a mess into a very strong economy, he should be very proud, not many Lib Dems would destroy themselves and their party to put their country first and he did. He shall be remembered fondly even if a few students who seemed to think wanting more free money to loaf about was the more concerning issue the country had won't.

That's pretty much what the program is if you actually watch it.

[Strokes]

Scrounger

What are the criteria for claiming working tax credit?

I was with you until you said cut them loose, those that are cheating the system are ruining it for those that actually need benefits, but we need to try and change attitudes, because the problem is not just the people living on benefits, they often have children and cutting them loose is not the good for anyone.

Having just looked its actually called child tax credits, its because I pay for my children to go to nursery whilst me and the missus work.

[leicsmac]

Can you go one thread without mentioning the Mail? You say I'm getting boring and unoriginal.

 

Farage has knocked back talks with the Tories already but it wouldn't bother me if he got in bed with them considering it could turn the party further to the right. if he ever propped up Labour though I could never forgive him.

 

Nick Clegg will be fine and history will be very kind to him, he has put through a policy that everyone under 10k no pays no tax which was a personal passion of his, added to that he is looking like being part of a very successful coalition that is dragging the country out of a mess into a very strong economy, he should be very proud, not many Lib Dems would destroy themselves and their party to put their country first and he did. He shall be remembered fondly even if a few students who seemed to think wanting more free money to loaf about was the more concerning issue the country had won't.

 

That's pretty much what the program is if you actually watch it.

 

 

Sorry Matt, but that's pretty much entirely subjective. 

 

Clegg alienated his core support for a shot at power, and it may well show come 2015 as the people who think he did a good thing will all vote Tory anyway. I doubt the Lib Dems will get to play kingmaker again for a long time.

[Captain...]

Can you go one thread without mentioning the Mail? You say I'm getting boring and unoriginal.

 

Farage has knocked back talks with the Tories already but it wouldn't bother me if he got in bed with them considering it could turn the party further to the right. if he ever propped up Labour though I could never forgive him.

 

Nick Clegg will be fine and history will be very kind to him, he has put through a policy that everyone under 10k no pays no tax which was a personal passion of his, added to that he is looking like being part of a very successful coalition that is dragging the country out of a mess into a very strong economy, he should be very proud, not many Lib Dems would destroy themselves and their party to put their country first and he did. He shall be remembered fondly even if a few students who seemed to think wanting more free money to loaf about was the more concerning issue the country had won't.

 

That's pretty much what the program is if you actually watch it.

 

I will mention the Daily Mail when it is relevant, it is a catch all term for hate based media, but it is relevant to the point I was making. It is your piss taking out of Ken that is boring and unoriginal, if he bothers you that much put him on ignore, I know his posts sometimes come out like they were written by a drunk with no hands trying to type with his face, but the point has been made, countless times, along with the constant parodying of his "catch phrases" and starting new threads just to take the piss out of someone, it is boring, it was boring when AOWW did it, and boring and unoriginal when you did it. It is bad enough having to read through the terrible SPaG on here, without the literate posters doing it deliberately.

[Alf Bentley]

All I have seen mentioned are the Dee's and Fungus. Apologies if I missed the mention of her.

 

Even the portrayal of Fungi is becoming more nuanced. He's a massive fvck-up, but he knows it and regrets it - and doesn't seem to blame anyone apart from himself. White Dee is harder to explain or sympathise with, though a previous programme said that she was on anti-depressants. She comes across as helpful but cheerfully idle, but mental health problems aren't always evident. My mate who killed himself 2 years ago was one of the most apparently cheerful, upbeat characters that I knew. If society was interested in helping people like White Dee, she could be trained up as a community worker of some description.

 

Re. the people shown not being "representative of the majority on benefits": I agree. Most people are on benefits for a few weeks or months and then get back into work. But this series is not about them, it is about a community of people many (but not all) of whom are marooned on benefits long-term. It leaves the viewer to judge why that is. However, it probably is quite representative of people in that situation (some competent, some incompetent, some damaged/addicted, some striving to escape).

[Guest MattP]

Sorry Matt, but that's pretty much entirely subjective. 

 

Clegg alienated his core support for a shot at power, and it may well show come 2015 as the people who think he did a good thing will all vote Tory anyway. I doubt the Lib Dems will get to play kingmaker again for a long time.

 

Pretty much what I'm saying, he destroyed himself for the good of the country, noble.

 

I will mention the Daily Mail when it is relevant, it is a catch all term for hate based media, but it is relevant to the point I was making. It is your piss taking out of Ken that is boring and unoriginal, if he bothers you that much put him on ignore, I know his posts sometimes come out like they were written by a drunk with no hands trying to type with his face, but the point has been made, countless times, along with the constant parodying of his "catch phrases" and starting new threads just to take the piss out of someone, it is boring, it was boring when AOWW did it, and boring and unoriginal when you did it. It is bad enough having to read through the terrible SPaG on here, without the literate posters doing it deliberately.

 

Hate based media? You need to do a bit more reading.

[Captain...]

How may I ask given that it's completely factually wrong and you have singled that out yourself?

 

Because there are 2 elements to every post, there is the point they are trying to make, and the way they make it.

 

Ken is right, the show is not representative of all those on benefits, it is picking up extreme and sensational examples that will make good TV, do you think that SB would have got a look in if she wasn't a hot model and a victim of domestic violence (tears always look good on camera). If she was just a normal single mum working part time in a chippy and claiming benefits to help bring up her kid(s) she wouldn't have been on the show. The example he used to prove his point wasn't a good one as he had just described someone they had featured in last nights episode, that doesn't make his point invalid.

 

I could say Hitler was a cvnt, because he didn't give a shit about Germany and lacked ambition. I am right, he was a cvnt, but my reasons are wrong. Ya get me?

[Rincewind]

I have edited my post where I mentioned a certain newspaper although I did say 'or any mainstream media' It was an independent  journal that deals with specifically housing issues I believe.

As for Clegg I think he has rolled onto his back and has had his belly tickled by Cameron. I was for the coalition even though it involved Tories as I thought Clegg would be able to use his influence to bring some new ideas into place. This has not been so. Maybe it was more diffiult than he anticipated but only now is he speaking out against some of the policies saying they are going too far. It has put me off Lib Dems although I have heard the Chairman (?) speak and think he speaks well. Forget his name.

[Guest MattP]

Because there are 2 elements to every post, there is the point they are trying to make, and the way they make it.

 

Ken is right, the show is not representative of all those on benefits, it is picking up extreme and sensational examples that will make good TV, do you think that SB would have got a look in if she wasn't a hot model and a victim of domestic violence (tears always look good on camera). If she was just a normal single mum working part time in a chippy and claiming benefits to help bring up her kid(s) she wouldn't have been on the show. The example he used to prove his point wasn't a good one as he had just described someone they had featured in last nights episode, that doesn't make his point invalid.

 

I could say Hitler was a cvnt, because he didn't give a shit about Germany and lacked ambition. I am right, he was a cvnt, but my reasons are wrong. Ya get me?

 

Not really, it was quite clearly stated at the start of the series that the street was chosen as it had the highest number of JSA claimaints, it wasn't and has never supposed to be showing how all people on benefits live, that's just a line that has now been trotted out every week by the people trying to defend it. Obviously Ken hasn't watched it so he wouldn't know that but that's probably why he shouldn't comment. That's who it was intended to focus on.

 

The way people have got themselves worked up into thinking the program is supposed to be telling us all "this is how they all live on benefits" is figment of many peopls imaginations (or maybe even their own prejudices?)

 

At least Alf Bentley has got it. Probably as he has watched them all.

[Zingari]

cracking debate chaps   some very interesting posts from all angles , 

just like the good old days of FT !!

 

I might even start watching it on catch-up now , but i've got a very low tolerance of bear pit tv 

[leicsmac]

Pretty much what I'm saying, he destroyed himself for the good of the country, noble.

 

 

Hate based media? You need to do a bit more reading.

 

I reckon we're going to have to agree to disagree on the bolded part, but fair enough. I guess that's the critical difference too - whether his 'sacrifice' (though it's his party who will really end up suffering, not him) was really worth it.

[Guest MattP]

I have edited my post where I mentioned a certain newspaper although I did say 'or any mainstream media' It was an independent  journal that deals with specifically housing issues I believe.

As for Clegg I think he has rolled onto his back and has had his belly tickled by Cameron. I was for the coalition even though it involved Tories as I thought Clegg would be able to use his influence to bring some new ideas into place. This has not been so. Maybe it was more diffiult than he anticipated but only now is he speaking out against some of the policies saying they are going too far. It has put me off Lib Dems although I have heard the Chairman (?) speak and think he speaks well. Forget his name.

 

Have you even looked?

 

Under 10k tax rate?

 

Influence on the upcoming minimum wage?

 

Pupil Premium?

 

200,000 new affordable homes?

 

Equal Marriage Rights?

 

Free childcare for all 3 and 4 year olds?

 

All things the Lib Dems have been heavily involved in and probably wouldn't have happened had it been the Tories alone.

 

Though I suppose it's easier to ignore the news and just claim someone is having his belly tickled rather than appreciate the hard work he has done?