Chris Smith lay in a hospital bed, dying of cancer

[ADK]

People tend to run up debt. You can't afford a life of luxury with £70 a week.

[Rincewind]

The answers to Ross's first two questions are yes and yes. Remember he had no money coming in which affected his health. And for the second one. People have become so worried about their debts that they have taken their own lives. So two deaths is two too many. The figure for benefit fraud is correct. As is the benefits unclaimed. The topic was people who have been medically assessed as unfit for work and as a result of being able to raise an arm or pick up a pencil have been deemed fit. It is not a case of a person having an ingrowing toenail and signing on the sick. These are serious life threatening illnesses or disabilities that are in question. There is no need to tick fit for every claimant. The ones who are fit will be obvious as will the unfit ones. They may not hit the targets but it will be fairer to those lying sick in hospital and awaiting major operations like heart surgery.

Maybe the clothes are bought from a charity shop.

[Ross-Kemp]

I'm not a doctor Ken but I'm happy to be corrected if there's one on here.

I'm fairly sure having no money does not increase the risk of dying from cancer / cancer spreading.

[Rincewind]

Remember he had no money coming in which affected his health (not cancer)

[Ross-Kemp]

I don't see your point?

He died of cancer, having no money didn't affect that did it.

[Jimothy]

I don't see your point?

He died of cancer, having no money didn't affect that did it.

Well that's alright then, let's take money off everyone suffering a terminal illness, doesn't make any difference. In fact I might pop round to see that local bloke with a brain tumour and convince him to empty his bank account into mine, what difference will it make.

Edit: Seriously though, not eating properly (due to lack of funds) would hardly have helped him fight his illness.

[Rincewind]

Saw a story about a bloke who had an illness affecting his jaw. He was told he had to have a graft of his leg and put onto his jaw. In order to do this he had to be of a certain fitness and weight. He had his DLA removed while waiting the op. As the time passed he had to see the surgeon doing the op. The bloke because of anxiety over bills and worring that his son would be ecvicted whilst in hospital he lost weight and strength. When he told the surgeon about his worries the surgeon said 'Bloody hell we spend hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds on trying to give you a quality of life for a few more years and these bastards ruin it.' (or words to that affect)

Because the op had to be done in a certain time before his jaw collapsed he had to be at a certain weight and fitness. Unfortunately he has not achieved this increasing the risk of the operation. If his benefits had not been stopped there would have been no problem so yes stopping entitled benefits would affect his health. He was another who had specialists advised against him working.

As I said these are not isolated cases and I would have thought common sense could be used in many of them.

The company Remploy which had thousands of disabled people working for them was closed by the government meaning jpb losses. Remploy had specially designed working environment to accommodate its workers. How many factories and offices have facilities to take on sevely disabled people who may need specialist care and supervision for things like going to the toilet.

[FoxesAreBlue]

Ay? There is a Remploy next door to where I work and it's open every day!

[Ross-Kemp]

Saw a story about a bloke who had an illness affecting his jaw. He was told he had to have a graft of his leg and put onto his jaw. In order to do this he had to be of a certain fitness and weight. He had his DLA removed while waiting the op. As the time passed he had to see the surgeon doing the op. The bloke because of anxiety over bills and worring that his son would be ecvicted whilst in hospital he lost weight and strength. When he told the surgeon about his worries the surgeon said 'Bloody hell we spend hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds on trying to give you a quality of life for a few more years and these bastards ruin it.' (or words to that affect)

Because the op had to be done in a certain time before his jaw collapsed he had to be at a certain weight and fitness. Unfortunately he has not achieved this increasing the risk of the operation. If his benefits had not been stopped there would have been no problem so yes stopping entitled benefits would affect his health. He was another who had specialists advised against him working.

As I said these are not isolated cases and I would have thought common sense could be used in many of them.

The company Remploy which had thousands of disabled people working for them was closed by the government meaning jpb losses. Remploy had specially designed working environment to accommodate its workers. How many factories and offices have facilities to take on sevely disabled people who may need specialist care and supervision for things like going to the toilet.

lol lol

Where do I start with this? So firstly, what weight was he prior to all of this and what weight did he need to get too?

Secondly, that's probably not even close to what the surgeon actually said, hence your 'or words to that effect'

Thirdly, remploy? I see that point is already covered.

[Jon the Hat]

Ken, in your examples could you please provide details of the phrase "all benefits were stopped"?  Which benefits were claimed before and after the sanctions?  I note your phrase "no money was coming in" shortly after this statement.  I am interested to hear whether in fact all benifits are subject to sanctions, or is it just JSA?

[Buce]

Ken, in your examples could you please provide details of the phrase "all benefits were stopped"? Which benefits were claimed before and after the sanctions? I note your phrase "no money was coming in" shortly after this statement. I am interested to hear whether in fact all benifits are subject to sanctions, or is it just JSA?

When ATOS decide that a claimant is fit for work, entitlement to ESA is ended; if the claimant appeals, he/she remains unentitled for the duration of the appeals process, currently anywhere between 6 - 18 months, depending on geographical location.

The only alternative offered is to sign on for JSA, which implies fitness to work, thus negating the appeal.

[Rincewind]

He's applied to be Moose's chauffeur.

 

 

I am lost for words. But I expect some on here will agree with the woman behind the counter.

 

http://oliverjamesopinion.com/2014/02/03/10-facts-about-benefits-britain/

 

Having told my specialist, (luckily one of the countries top maxofacial surgeons) all about this when he enquired into why I was looking so rough and still not putting on any weight, his reply was interesting and not an angle that had previously come to me, he said “ Good god what is the point? We spend quite literally hundreds of hours, and hundreds of thousands of health service pounds on curing you and trying to ensure you are capable of enjoying some quality of life, and those Inglorious Ba****ds wipe out all our hard work with the swipe of a pen” … a very good point in my opinion!

 

Bloody hell we spend hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds on trying to give you a quality of life for a few more years and these bastards ruin it.' (or words to that affect)

 

Fairly close I think. Mine is shorter but the same point is made. The surgeon was not happy.

[Jon the Hat]

Some of these cases are ridiculous for sure.

[Rincewind]

I thought the guide dog would have been a clue. Maybe she needed one.

 

Think I have mentioned it before, a blind friend of mine who went for an animal assessment (it was just a check up a few years ago not a test)

and asked what job he'd like to do and he replied 'an airline pilot' They signed him off as unable to work. He doesn't have a dog and manages quite well. He likes the women. He gets told off for making remarks to barmaids. ;Get them out' sort of thing. He sees mostly shadows. I believe that is the case with most blind people. The story of my mate inspired me to write 'Flying Blind' Which is about three drinking buddies who take a trip in a light aircraft and after the pilot has a heart attack and the other two are too drunk it is up to the blind hero and his dog Boozer to land the plane albeit crashing into wooden huts used as loos.

I was looking for a clip from See No Evilhear No Evil Where Gene wilder is deaf and Richard Pryor is blind and are involved in a car chase. Pryor driving and Wilder instructing. Some very funny scenes in that film.

[MooseBreath]

That was such an epic post ken. Animal assessment, he doesn't have a dog, "get them out", plane crash lands into loos.

[Rincewind]

What did you think that was that in the video at 2.50, a sheep?

 

Re-arrange these words.

 

straws at clutching.

[Merging Cultures]

I'm so confused.

[Guest MattP]

How long before certain people start campaigning for lack of benefits to actually be registered as a cause of death?

[Rincewind]

I'm so confused.

Don't worry about it. It happens to us all eventually.

[Dr The Singh]

I'm so confused.

Finally coming out of the closet hey BB!!!  You've got my full support chap!!

[MooseBreath]

This thread did get a bit weird once fictional examples were introduced and then argued upon as if they were real, just totally disregarding the distinction between fiction and reality. It's like a trip inside Rincey's head.

[Rincewind]

Finally coming out of the closet hey BB!!!  You've got my full support chap!!

There is help out there. I can ask around for contact details.

[Merging Cultures]

I wish I was coming out the closet, I think I could understand that more than some of these posts.

 

Seriously, I get so lost when I try to read these threads.

 

I really like Ken's passion, but the post below really confused me and then something about sheep later?

 

I thought the guide dog would have been a clue. Maybe she needed one.

 

Think I have mentioned it before, a blind friend of mine who went for an animal assessment (it was just a check up a few years ago not a test)

and asked what job he'd like to do and he replied 'an airline pilot' They signed him off as unable to work. He doesn't have a dog and manages quite well. He likes the women. He gets told off for making remarks to barmaids. ;Get them out' sort of thing. He sees mostly shadows. I believe that is the case with most blind people. The story of my mate inspired me to write 'Flying Blind' Which is about three drinking buddies who take a trip in a light aircraft and after the pilot has a heart attack and the other two are too drunk it is up to the blind hero and his dog Boozer to land the plane albeit crashing into wooden huts used as loos.

I was looking for a clip from See No Evilhear No Evil Where Gene wilder is deaf and Richard Pryor is blind and are involved in a car chase. Pryor driving and Wilder instructing. Some very funny scenes in that film.

[Rincewind]

 

I wish I was coming out the closet, I think I could understand that more than some of these posts.

 

Seriously, I get so lost when I try to read these threads.

 

I really like Ken's passion, but the post below really confused me and then something about sheep later?

 

Just to clarify the blind bloke was seen in the video with a guide dog, I assume that  he would have it with him. To overlook a guide dog would mean the assessor would have to be as blind as the claimant.

I do not totally disagree with the assessments but the pass requirement is too high. It is easy to distinguish  between someone who attends and limps with an ingrowing toenail and someone in a wheelchair who has a medical certificate from a specialist or someone who is awaiting major heart surgery or has a cancerous growth on their neck. To put it bluntly they are targeting the wrong people. I cannot see how anyone can disagree that it is unfair for a severely disabled person to lose most of their income when the true culprits get away scott free.

The sheep comment was in response to the poster who said there was no guide dog in the video. I saw a guide dog I do not know what the poster saw.

[Guest MattP]

Government vet killed man in sex session.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/02/former-government-vet-kirk-thompson-guilty-of-manslaughter-bird-flu