Chris Smith lay in a hospital bed, dying of cancer

[LanguedocFox]

If you have Facebook or Twitter, please make sure that all of your followers know about this disgusting story about a guy called Chris Smith, from Leicester: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Fit-work/story-22782662-detail/story.html?afterReg=Y

 

The guy lay dying, and he and his family were bombarded with texts and phone calls to say that he was fit for work. And after he died, all the fvcking Department of Work and Pensions could say is that they are reviewing the processes. Well, bit fvcking deal.

 

Come on: let the world know, and shame the fvckwits into submission.

[DennisNedry]

The DWP is right to thoroughly investigate people to ensure that fraud is minimised, but words fail me how on earth they found it necessary to hound a terminally ill man.

[Rincewind]

Already seen it. I shared it on Facebook and posted a link on Twitter. Never posted it here because I thought I had posted enough on the subject.

I also think its disgusting. There are plenty of similar stories. It is hard to think how people can be treated this way. And the DWP always have some excuse.

 

I heard the article was in Saturdays supplement so I would have thought others would have seen it. Something like this should be known to more people.

 

Yes they should investigate but people in hospital? People who cannot even get to the testing offices? People who need 24 hr care? The majority of appeals are won and it is costing the taxpayer millions. Many do not know or are unable to appeal. Their DLA ans ESA is stopped while the apeal goes through which can take up to several months leaving them with next nothing to pay bills etc.

The percentage for benefit fraud is around 3-7% I believe.

[ADK]

It's either an administrative error or they never informed the DWP he had cancer. Obviously it's bad, but there many instances of people dying and then receiving correspondence.

[Rincewind]

They were texting him while in hospital. Surely they would have told them. He could not even make it up the assessment stairs. A place where people in wheelchairs are expected to go. They said there were arguments so I expect that would be over how ill he was. Someone on Facebook recorded her tests and when she had the results they were different to the meeting result. She is appealinhg and will most likely win with the recorded evidence.

 

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2014/08/21/dying-of-cancer-work-or-starve-the-end-of-the-welfare-state-prides-purge/

 

If you do not believe what is here and exit before clicking the link here it is

 

MacMillan Cancer support

[MooseBreath]

It certainly appears insensitive on the surface, but it's a bit ambitious to expect zero administrative errors in a system as large as welfare, especially when it is undergoing change. Maybe a quick phone call after the first erroneous text could have cleared matters up.

[Rincewind]

I would imagine they made several phone calls as did all the other cases. And what about the 6 months wait? They have had four years to set it up and it is costing the taxpayer.

 

http://evil-ken-evil.tumblr.com/post/95415759426/this-is-from-a-facebook-group-page-evolved-around

[Fox92]

 

 

Government assessors told him he wasn’t ill enough

 

I suppose these are the same Government assessors which don't bother assessing those sitting taking benefits and getting by doing nothing all day. A terminally ill person ffs.

 

Not only do the Government want you to work and then just die, but they like to take money from you when you're dead as well.

[Babylon]

They were texting him while in hospital.

When you say "they", you do know they would just be a computer system and not a person somewhere thinking "I'll get the bastard".

 

Whilst it's not nice, it's fairly obvious that it's just an administrative error and it's going to be fairly common with such large systems.

[Merging Cultures]

The messages would have been automated, and clearly someone didn't click the right field to say he was sick. I set up databases for small banks that SMS people when they fail to repay their loans... I can imagine someone dying and them getting an SMS. When you are dealing with thousands and millions of people, things get missed.

[Alf Bentley]

When you say "they", you do know they would just be a computer system and not a person somewhere thinking "I'll get the bastard".

 

Whilst it's not nice, it's fairly obvious that it's just an administrative error and it's going to be fairly common with such large systems.

 

I'm sure you're right that it was just a computer system and not a person out to get him.

 

However, systems should be set up so that important mistakes almost never happen.

 

Given the large numbers/systems involved, I'm sure that it would be statistically likely for other systems to make major errors. How many thousands of people per day are given potentially dangerous medication by hospitals? Yet disasters are quite rare. How many millions of transactions per day do banks handle, yet instances of large sums being removed from / deposited in the wrong accounts are quite rare.

 

Isolated serious errors will always occur in large systems (e.g. where 2 or more people in succession make an error or 2 or more computer glitches occur), but they seem to be much more common in the benefits system than in the NHS or banks. As Baltimore suggests, it may be down to human error, but if so, should one human error lead to such serious consequences? Maybe it should be standard, where a decision on benefits eligibility is taken for a Yes/No box to be clicked - and then for a confirmation box to be clicked to guard against error? Also, are Jobcentre staff trained to view such errors as very serious? Everything that I read/hear, suggests that the emphasis is much more on tackling "scroungers", hitting targets to reduce the number of people claiming benefits etc. All this is unsurprising, as that is the government policy - supported by high-profile media coverage about "benefits cheats" and "scroungers" (and, yes, of course genuine cheats should be dealt with firmly, and those making inadequate effort to find work should, firstly, be helped/guided to improve their efforts, and then disciplined if they fail to improve).

 

Of course, it may not have been simple human error. Maybe the person/people informed DID input the data, but that data was not properly transferred to other systems dealing with sanctions, communications or whatever? Poorly designed government computer systems would be no novelty. Likewise, a work backlog due to under-staffing through cuts would be no surprise. We know that civil service staffing levels have been drastically cut.

 

Ultimately, benefits systems should assume that claimants are human beings entitled to respect until they prove otherwise. Instead, the assumption seems to be that they are cheating scroungers who should be harassed at the first opportunity - and that it doesn't matter if some of them are kicked about without justification (unlike hospital patients or bank customers, who are deemed inherently more worthy of respect).

[MooseBreath]

You're comparing the sending of an erroneous text message with the fatal administration of incorrect medical care? You could probably pay lots of money to further reduce the mistakes made by the welfare text message sending machine but is it really worth it? If the additional security is going to save lives like it does in the NHS then fine, but to prevent a few insensitive text messages? I'd rather the money was spent on something more important.

[Babylon]

However, systems should be set up so that important mistakes almost never happen.

Well I suppose it's down to what you define as important, someone receiving a text message they shouldn't comes pretty low down on my list of mistakes I'd like the government to put effort into stopping.

 

I refrained from commenting on the persons benefits being stopped, as quite often one side of a story doesn't tell the full story. Without a full breakdown of the full details I can't really throw stones and say you should have done x, y, or z.

 

Anyone who has dealt with benefits system or the NHS or any other big system has no doubt come across how slow the paper trail can be to catch up to what's happening in real life. When things are progressing quickly it can become a bit of a mess through nobodies fault.

[Alf Bentley]

You're comparing the sending of an erroneous text message with the fatal administration of incorrect medical care? You could probably pay lots of money to further reduce the mistakes made by the welfare text message sending machine but is it really worth it? If the additional security is going to save lives like it does in the NHS then fine, but to prevent a few insensitive text messages? I'd rather the money was spent on something more important.

 

I compared the sending of offensive and hurtful messages to the danger of medical harm and the risk of large sums of money going astray. Obviously, a fatal medical error is much more serious, but such offensive messages are serious enough that they could and should be avoided, except in exceptionally rare cases....whereas this doesn't seem to be a priority as there have been numerous such cases, including suicides (which were also fatal, last I heard).

[Rincewind]

It may also have been easier for those assessing to look at his medical records note that he had cancer and tick the box that says unfit instead of asking him to raise an arm and tick fit.

 

Mistakes are becoming more frequent. And computers do not decide the fitness or sanction people. They are people sitting behind desks ticking boxes. Common sense seems to be a quality that is not needed.

 

At least it brings the unemployment figures down.

[Guest MattP]

It's sad but it's clearly an admin error, not some deliberately evil attack.

[Rincewind]

Another one

HERE IS MY SON INLAW DARREN he had a heart attack in may 2010 37yrs he was very anemic and was bleeding from somewhere but could not find out where he had every test going camera up camera down could not find out where he was bleeding he had lumps removed from all over his body because they thought he had cancer , it turns out darren had Sarcoidosis as well as having asthma Sarcoidosis mad his che...st worse . he allso suffered from cluster headaches .jan 2011 he went on the sick in june 2011 he was sent for the dreaded medical HE WAS FIT FOR WORK his medication was 15 tablets aday as well as his inhalers Darren put a appeal in because the consultant from the FREEMAN HOSPITAL the consultant who is a MR said he was unfit for work his appeal was in jan 2012 he WON his appeal and was looking forward to his back pay which he was told would be in his bank 6th mar BUT ON SUNDAY MARCH 4th WE FOUND HIM DEAD IN HIS BED 38 yrs old HEART ATTACK SO HIS BACK PAY WE WERE TOLD TO USE FOR HIS FUNERAL AS THIS WAS CLASSED AS HIS ESTATE just thought i would share OUR EXPERIENCE WITH ATOS xx

[Webbo]

Another one

HERE IS MY SON INLAW DARREN he had a heart attack in may 2010 37yrs he was very anemic and was bleeding from somewhere but could not find out where he had every test going camera up camera down could not find out where he was bleeding he had lumps removed from all over his body because they thought he had cancer , it turns out darren had Sarcoidosis as well as having asthma Sarcoidosis mad his che...st worse . he allso suffered from cluster headaches .jan 2011 he went on the sick in june 2011 he was sent for the dreaded medical HE WAS FIT FOR WORK his medication was 15 tablets aday as well as his inhalers Darren put a appeal in because the consultant from the FREEMAN HOSPITAL the consultant who is a MR said he was unfit for work his appeal was in jan 2012 he WON his appeal and was looking forward to his back pay which he was told would be in his bank 6th mar BUT ON SUNDAY MARCH 4th WE FOUND HIM DEAD IN HIS BED 38 yrs old HEART ATTACK SO HIS BACK PAY WE WERE TOLD TO USE FOR HIS FUNERAL AS THIS WAS CLASSED AS HIS ESTATE just thought i would share OUR EXPERIENCE WITH ATOS xx

What's your point?

[MooseBreath]

Another one

HERE IS MY SON INLAW DARREN he had a heart attack in may 2010 37yrs he was very anemic and was bleeding from somewhere but could not find out where he had every test going camera up camera down could not find out where he was bleeding he had lumps removed from all over his body because they thought he had cancer , it turns out darren had Sarcoidosis as well as having asthma Sarcoidosis mad his che...st worse . he allso suffered from cluster headaches .jan 2011 he went on the sick in june 2011 he was sent for the dreaded medical HE WAS FIT FOR WORK his medication was 15 tablets aday as well as his inhalers Darren put a appeal in because the consultant from the FREEMAN HOSPITAL the consultant who is a MR said he was unfit for work his appeal was in jan 2012 he WON his appeal and was looking forward to his back pay which he was told would be in his bank 6th mar BUT ON SUNDAY MARCH 4th WE FOUND HIM DEAD IN HIS BED 38 yrs old HEART ATTACK SO HIS BACK PAY WE WERE TOLD TO USE FOR HIS FUNERAL AS THIS WAS CLASSED AS HIS ESTATE just thought i would share OUR EXPERIENCE WITH ATOS xx

Another what? That's a totally different kind of story. This bloke died from a heart attack. I could die of a heart attack in ten minutes. Should I go home sick just in case?

[Babylon]

What's your point?

I think he's saying he wants more benefits. I could be wrong though as I stopped reading due to the complete lack of any correct punctuation.

[Rincewind]

What would your punctuation be like if you were in te same situation?  And does it matter? Should the compassion and human rights law only be applied to those that can write in perfect grammar in times of stress and hardship?

 

I am wasting my time. I never started the thread so why have I got involved if any thing said is ignored.

 

Think what you want to think and I sincerely hope none of you or your loved ones experience the same things.

 

The only good thing is there are some posters that actually read the whole story without making assumptions after a few sentences based on their political views rather than a broad minded and open opinion.

This not about politics. It is how  people less fotunate than our selves are treated and denied the human rights that is set down by law. Labour introduced ATOS and said it needed revising and improved but the coalition carried on with it despite the flaws that they were warned about. The whole setup is flawed.

If the coalition had fixed it at the start there would be fewer complaints. What is wrong in wanting that?

It is human to make mistakes. Why will they not admit it?

[Webbo]

What would your punctuation be like if you were in te same situation?  And does it matter? Should the compassion and human rights law only be applied to those that can write in perfect grammar in times of stress and hardship?

 

I am wasting my time. I never started the thread so why have I got involved if any thing said is ignored.

 

Think what you want to think and I sincerely hope none of you or your loved ones experience the same things.

You've had 3 responses to what you said, how is that being ignored?

 

I asked you what your point was. Someone was deemed fit to work, appealed and won and then died of a heart attack. Then he had to pay for his own funeral out of his own money. What's wrong with that?

[Rincewind]

it turns out Darren had Sarcoidosis as well as having asthma Sarcoidosis made his chest worse .He also suffered from cluster headaches .Jan 2011 he went on the sick in June 2011 he was sent for the dreaded medical HE WAS FIT FOR WORK his medication was 15 tablets a day as well as his inhaler.

 

This is the point.

[Webbo]

it turns out darren had Sarcoidosis as well as having asthma Sarcoidosis made his chest worse .He also suffered from cluster headaches .Jan 2011 he went on the sick in June 2011 he was sent for the dreaded medical HE WAS FIT FOR WORK his medication was 15 tablets a day as well as his inhaler.

 

This explains it

 in jan 2012 he WON his appeal 

 

[Jimothy]

Problem is Webbo when this system so frequently ****s up, there is no give, it just pulls the rug from under people's feet. This guy would have no benefits until he won that appeal, but also because of his ailment he wouldn't be able to work. So he had no access to any funds. People on here have said you can't compare the welfare system making mistakes to a hospital messing up a drug dosage, but you can. This is people lives they're ****ing up with shit misguided ill thought out target based decisions. In the case above the guy has gone 6 months with no money whatsoever, and it's ok some of you saying that he should have have money saved as a provision, but if he hadn't what's he meant to do? I mean 6 months, seriously, it's not a instant decision is it, it's a long time to correct their error.

Some of you need to stop looking at the people who being failed by this system as collateral damage in some crusade against scroungers. Doing alright isn't good enough when you're leaving people without a bean to live on for a significant period of time.