2015 Election season ..........stuff it in here.

[Bobby Hundreds]

 

I'm mainly a happy drunk, Moose, though not always, as demonstrated by my late-night encounter with The Invisible a week or two back. Happy enough last night, though, and just mellowing out after 4 stressful days away looking after my Dad (90, now living alone with Parkinson's & mild dementia). I've got to call social services later to arrange another assessment for him, the scrounging layabout ( ), though he'll have to pay for most support he needs, as he has a good pension.

 

My "rant" was meant to be melodramatic rhetoric showing how the blanket condemnation of "welfare scroungers" could also be applied to the "tax-cheating self-employed". Out of interest, Strokes/Webbo, as you both seem to approve of "cash-in-hand" to evade tax, is it also acceptable to work and fraudulently claim benefits? I see them as roughly equivalent and don't approve of either, but maybe I'm a puritan?

 

Strokes, if your neighbourhood is full of dole scroungers, why the hell hasn't the Tory government done something about it over the past 5 years? They've made welfare cuts a priority, even down to the bedroom tax, yet they've been unable to stop people who could work idling on the dole?! That's a shocking failure by Cameron & co, if true. 

 

Here's some official data showing the welfare budget for 2016: http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/government_expenditure.html

So, the total welfare budget is £111.7bn, from which the Tories plan to cut £12bn. Shouldn't be too hard to slice off another 10%, eh?

 

But look at this welfare breakdown in the Mail (scroll down to pie chart). It's from 2014, but figures now won't be much different): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/budget2014/article-2582849/BUDGET-2014-Welfare-spending-capped-100billion-stop-benefits-bill-ballooning-control.html

Even if you completely got rid of Jobseeker's (£5.2bn) & Income Support (£3.2bn), you wouldn't save £10bn. The biggest welfare spending was on Housing Benefit (£23.7bn), Disability Living Allowance (£13.7bn), Employment Support Allowance (£9.5bn) & Pension Credit (£7.2bn). No wonder that the Tories don't want to explain where their £10bn of welfare cuts will come from....it's obvious from these stats that they'd only be able to make such cuts by attacking the disabled, the sick and poorer pensioners, as those are the 2nd, 3rd & 4th largest categories of welfare spending! 

 

Of course, there's housing benefit, as the single largest category of welfare spending, but a large proportion of housing benefit goes to those in low-paid full-time or part-time work. Here's some analysis (dates from 2012, but I expect the proportion claiming HB while in work will have increased, as unemployment has fallen since then): https://fullfact.org/factchecks/one_in_eight_housing_benefit_claimants_unemployed-27479 

 

So, in addition to the disabled, the sick and poorer pensioners, the Tories obviously intend to attack those in low-paid or part-time work. No wonder they don't want to talk about it publicly! Trebles in the Eton common room, lads! Rah! Rah! Rah!   

 

Must work before I end up on the dole myself!

 

Cap rents, stop allowing people to profit from the fact there's not any affordable housing. Stop Russian oligarchs and rich Middle Eastern business men buying up all the properties in London making the capital property prices skyrocket. Tax the arse off multiple home owners. 

[MooseBreath]

Housing benefit and pension credits look like easy wins there for me. I've been saying for a long time that we should get single people out of state funded one bedroom apartments and put them in house share or bedsits at least. Not only would that save billions but also free up lots of smaller properties for first time buyers. Double win.

Pension credits are just a joke. Invented by labour to get people below pension age off the unemployed stats.

Between those two you've got your £12bn easily, plus some associated additional benefits and no disabled or otherwise incapable person has been affected in any way.

[Strokes]

Alf I agree, they haven't gone in hard enough on the scroungers and I have critisised it time and again. I think genuine disabled should be given all the care and monies needed to live a comfortable life free from scrutiny but if we allow cheats to live under the disabled umbrella, it tarnishes their own struggle with life and that isn't fair.

On the point about cash in hand, in my experience, its always the customer pushing for a cash discount. Maybe you all need to check your morales, as its not just the end receiver taking the benefits.

[Guest MattP]

Why is it always about the disabled?

 

Because it is, it's all about them. Forget the economy, the debt, the NHS, everything in fact, it's now totally 'progressive' to be spending 45billion a year serving an interest on a debt and actually increasing it to pile trillions of pounds onto future generations so we can all still continue to live beyond our means. Who cares, we'll be dead in a few years, not our problem.

[Guest MattP]

Easily my favourite story of the week, where do the Lib Dems manage to find these people? I'm surprised the Greens didn't get there first.

 

Here's their candidate for Maldon.

 

 

Zoe O'Connell, who used to be a man, is in what is described as a three-way lesbian relationship with two people who used to be a heterosexual married couple, but are now civil partners after getting divorced when one of them had a sex-change operation to become a woman.

 

I think that's right, but I've only read it half a dozen times. 

 

One of the women is a father-of-three, if that helps. We live in interesting times, but somehow I don't think John Whittingdale's 19,000 Tory majority is in much danger.

[Guest]

Politicians are too concerned with not doing the wrong thing that they NEVER do the right thing.

[Guest MattP]

Politicians are too concerned with not doing the wrong thing that they NEVER do the right thing.

 

They are concerned with people not voting for them. That's the reason we are saying every single party and politician over the last month making ridiculous promises and completely unafforable spending commitments. We even have a Tory government now that is borrowing billions every year to keep up this whole charade.

 

The most laughable thing about this whole election has been that people seem genuinely convinced 'austerity' has been implemented in some way, if you anyone thinks this is austerity you have some pretty shocking times coming up whoever is in government and don't expect anyone to actually tell the truth as doing that means you have no chance of being elected.

 

I'm not sure the British people are going to be able to cope with what's to come if I'm being honest. The sense of entitlement to what we have become accustomed too now far outweighs the appalling reality of the upcoming situation with regards to our nations finances.

 

We're the lucky ones mind, we'll still be borrowing to try and hold this off for 20 years, all your grandkids are totally ****ed though, they'll be paying the vast majority of their wages in tax and working until they drop so we can retire in our 60's and single unemployed people can live in multi-room houses.

[leicsmac]

They are concerned with people not voting for them. That's the reason we are saying every single party and politician over the last month making ridiculous promises and completely unafforable spending commitments. We even have a Tory government now that is borrowing billions every year to keep up this whole charade.

 

The most laughable thing about this whole election has been that people seem genuinely convinced 'austerity' has been implemented in some way, if you anyone thinks this is austerity you have some pretty shocking times coming up whoever is in government and don't expect anyone to actually tell the truth as doing that means you have no chance of being elected.

 

I'm not sure the British people are going to be able to cope with what's to come if I'm being honest. The sense of entitlement to what we have become accustomed too now far outweighs the appalling reality of the upcoming situation with regards to our nations finances.

 

We're the lucky ones mind, we'll still be borrowing to try and hold this off for 20 years, all your grandkids are totally ****ed though, they'll be paying the vast majority of their wages in tax and working until they drop so we can retire in our 60's and single unemployed people can live in multi-room houses.

 

"Sky is falling" rhetoric aside, perhaps this election might be a wakeup call to the Westminster lot illustrating that the political landscape has changed.

 

Regarding the economy...Moose says that the economy is in better shape than it has been in years, you say that disaster is just around the corner...Which is it? Or a bith of both? And can we really be sure about any kind of economic prediction spanning more than a decade or two given how so often they've been wrong?

[Guest MattP]

"Sky is falling" rhetoric aside, perhaps this election might be a wakeup call to the Westminster lot illustrating that the political landscape has changed.

 

Regarding the economy...Moose says that the economy is in better shape than it has been in years, you say that disaster is just around the corner...Which is it? Or a bith of both? And can we really be sure about any kind of economic prediction spanning more than a decade or two given how so often they've been wrong?

We're in better shape as to providing jobs, attracting business and starting to reduce a deficit but in terms of national debt we are in a horrific position and in terms of the deficit which is still running at 90 billion - we still have to cut that to zero and start running at a surplus to actually pay this off. That's where the serious cutting or obscene taxtaion will have to start. Doing either of those and keeping the productivity high is the problem.

 

The anti Tory alliance (this now apparantly a suitable position for collective parties to form a stable government ) is proposing to increase this and it's beyond madness that people are falling for it. Although obviously economic chaos and collapse is in the SNP's favour as it helps to achieve their end game.

 

As to regards to economic predictions, I'll give you one that's absolutely certain - if you keep borrowing money your debt and interest payments will get bigger.

[Guest]

They are concerned with people not voting for them. That's the reason we are saying every single party and politician over the last month making ridiculous promises and completely unafforable spending commitments. We even have a Tory government now that is borrowing billions every year to keep up this whole charade.

 

The most laughable thing about this whole election has been that people seem genuinely convinced 'austerity' has been implemented in some way, if you anyone thinks this is austerity you have some pretty shocking times coming up whoever is in government and don't expect anyone to actually tell the truth as doing that means you have no chance of being elected.

 

I'm not sure the British people are going to be able to cope with what's to come if I'm being honest. The sense of entitlement to what we have become accustomed too now far outweighs the appalling reality of the upcoming situation with regards to our nations finances.

 

We're the lucky ones mind, we'll still be borrowing to try and hold this off for 20 years, all your grandkids are totally ****ed though, they'll be paying the vast majority of their wages in tax and working until they drop so we can retire in our 60's and single unemployed people can live in multi-room houses.

 

Be careful. Whenever I mention this people attack. They really don't see how it has become.

[Guest]

"Sky is falling" rhetoric aside, perhaps this election might be a wakeup call to the Westminster lot illustrating that the political landscape has changed.

 

Regarding the economy...Moose says that the economy is in better shape than it has been in years, you say that disaster is just around the corner...Which is it? Or a bith of both? And can we really be sure about any kind of economic prediction spanning more than a decade or two given how so often they've been wrong?

 

Moose wouldn't understand the economy, if it sat down at a McD's table and introduced itself.

[Guest]

It's funny how people on here are arguing over Con or Lab when for the last few decades there is really very little difference between the two. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

 

As to regards to economic predictions, I'll give you one that's absolutely certain - if you keep borrowing money your debt and interest payments will get bigger.

 

This is all made up though, it means nothing. We have managed to enslave ourselves to a monetary & market system of our own creation, bizarre.

[leicsmac]

It's funny how people on here are arguing over Con or Lab when for the last few decades there is really very little difference between the two. 

 

This I agree with. One of the reasons (along with entrenched party political stances ala football teams) that a hung parliament seems all but inevitable.

[Guest MattP]

This is all made up though, it means nothing. We have managed to enslave ourselves to a monetary & market system of our own creation, bizarre.

 

My word, talk about head in the sand. Explain to me how it's made up? If it is made up why stop at 1.5trillion? Let's go to 15trillion, we can all live like Kings.

 

I'm off to take out a 50k bank loan and piss it up the wall, not going to worry about it, all made up anyway, then in a few years I'll say how bizarre it is I've 'enslaved' myself to the banking sector.

[Harry - LCFC]

This is all made up though, it means nothing. We have managed to enslave ourselves to a monetary & market system of our own creation, bizarre.

 

The word 'slave' implies you're being forced to do something, you aren't, you can leave whenever you wish.

 

The fact that you willingly go out and spend your money on a new TV, a holiday and some good food occasionally shows that you're more appreciative of this system than you're letting on. I had a conversation with FIF about this and he didn't answer my question on why he chooses to remain here.

 

It's all very well telling people how tyrannical capitalism is but the real mark of how someone feels about a system is how they vote with their feet.

[Bobby Hundreds]

The word 'slave' implies you're being forced to do something, you aren't, you can leave whenever you wish.

 

The fact that you willingly go out and spend your money on a new TV, a holiday and some good food occasionally shows that you're more appreciative of this system than you're letting on. I had a conversation with FIF about this and he didn't answer my question on why he chooses to remain here.

 

It's all very well telling people how tyrannical capitalism is but the real mark of how someone feels about a system is how they vote with their feet.

 

Move where? Mars?

[Harry - LCFC]

Move where? Mars?

 

There are plenty of places on this planet that don't operate with private individuals and businesses carrying out the bulk of exchanges. I'm sure you can find one you like.

[Guest]

The word 'slave' implies you're being forced to do something, you aren't, you can leave whenever you wish.

 

The fact that you willingly go out and spend your money on a new TV, a holiday and some good food occasionally shows that you're more appreciative of this system than you're letting on. I had a conversation with FIF about this and he didn't answer my question on why he chooses to remain here.

 

It's all very well telling people how tyrannical capitalism is but the real mark of how someone feels about a system is how they vote with their feet.

 

I must've missed that. I thought we had a conversation about comparisons of wealth between prehistoric and modern man.

 

If by "here" you mean earth - I don't have much choice.

There are plenty of places on this planet that don't operate with private individuals and businesses carrying out the bulk of exchanges. I'm sure you can find one you like.

 

Can you give me a list to choose from please?

[Guest MattP]

Move where? Mars?

 

North Korea? Cuba.

 

You won't have to worry about being enslaved to any evil corporate bankers there.

[Harry - LCFC]

I must've missed that. I thought we had a conversation about comparisons of wealth between prehistoric and modern man.

 

If by "here" you mean earth - I don't have much choice.

 

It was broadly the same topic we were discussing. I used that comparison to demonstrate the material benefits that have been brought to us as a result of free enterprise.

 

 

Can you give me a list to choose from please?

 

Can't give you exact locations but there are Amazon tribes who live without businesses or money. Can't imagine these sort of societies are restricted to the Amazon either.

[Guest]

North Korea? Cuba.

 

You won't have to worry about being enslaved to any evil corporate bankers there.

 

So you are giving an alternative to capitalism as a raving looney dictatorship and you wonder why we're not living there?

 

As for Cuba, I'm surprised that you haven't been there. It's a nice place but of course it has been under attack from capitalists who can't bear to see another system trying to succeed so unable to thrive.

 

Having said that I'd have no problem living in Cuba and no problem living on my own island in the pacific.

[Guest]

It was broadly the same topic we were discussing. I used that comparison to demonstrate the material benefits that have been brought to us as a result of free enterprise.

 

 

 

Can't give you exact locations but there are Amazon tribes who live without businesses or money. Can't imagine these sort of societies are restricted to the Amazon either.

 

Second point first - you clearly don't know any places given your response. Maybe you can guess why I don't live with an unknown Amazonian tribe having been born in Leicester.

 

First point who really haven't quite understood the creation of material benefits and it's relation to man if you are putting it down to free enterprise but I think we're at a dead end on that discussion - and as MattP explains enjoy your life of debt - it'll blow up in your face eventually.

[Harry - LCFC]

Second point first - you clearly don't know any places given your response. Maybe you can guess why I don't live with an unknown Amazonian tribe having been born in Leicester.

 

First point who really haven't quite understood the creation of material benefits and it's relation to man if you are putting it down to free enterprise but I think we're at a dead end on that discussion - and as MattP explains enjoy your life of debt - it'll blow up in your face eventually.

 

It isn't inconsistent to want to live in a market economy while not wanting the government to run a permanent budget deficit. It's perfectly possible to hold both views.

[Bobby Hundreds]

It isn't inconsistent to want to live in a market economy while not wanting the government to run a permanent budget deficit. It's perfectly possible to hold both views.

 

Maybe a big cull would sort it out?