bovril

this is going to be an almighty cringefest isn't it

Any links to the full BBC programme anywhere? It was up on Iplayer for a while. Lots of stuff on youtube but I'd love to see all the build up again.

yeah you've got to love a lid-flying-off cup lift

Fulham are not a big club but they feel more 'proper' than most to me because of their stadium and because of the area of London. The Johnny Haynes stand with his statue outside is one of the properest stands in the Premier. Though they lose points for the new riverside stand and its rooftop pool

Mental image now of you as an 8 year old hooligan chucking pints of lager in the air

You're right but I think Nottinghamshire is associated more with industrial grittiness than Leicestershire amongst the wider British population. Maybe it's DH Lawrence...

I think most of us grew up with the stories of the 4 final defeats, especially the ones in the 1960s. I think for my Mum it probably meant a little more than when we won the league.

Great day. I got a ticket with a friend who worked for Brent Council. I was on a zoom call with her just after the semi final and mentioned that I'd heard about tickets to the cup final for Brent employees. She said she really fancied it, but didn't know anyone who wanted to go, unless I knew someone.....? Went down and met her and some other friends in central London for a few drinks. I think we still couldn't sit inside so we loitered outside the pub in quite unseasonably cold weather if I remember. We were wearing the rosettes my Mum made us. She'd been to the final in 61 and 63, and was at home with my niece, who was watching her very first FA Cup final and incredibly excited about it all. The game from 63 minutes onwards is a bit of a blur but I remember feeling physically quite sick towards the end and then just the wave of relief at the end. I was knackered. My girlfriend, who doesn't really like football that much, said she hadn't moved from her seat for the last 20 minutes, apart from to reach for another cigarette. I remember a report in the French press I think that said something like not the greatest game of all time, but there was an incredible frisson about final third. So much tension, atmosphere and drama. My friend still has the rosette on her mantelpiece back in Brazil.

France 98, what a tournament

Shaping up to be a good season for Scots in Italy

I've been thinking about this too much today and I've decided it's mostly down to which teams were top division when you started watching football

True, but 'big' is different to 'proper' I think. As you say properness is a lot to do with the perception of the area you come from. Trying to be objective as non-Midlander, Leicester feels less 'proper' than Derby and even Nottingham who are slightly further north and which I associate in my mind (perhaps unfairly) more with industry and mining than Leicester. As nice as Leicestershire is, and as economically important a city as Leicester was.

I think it's because as the game becomes ever more commercialized and detached from the clubs' communities, and as many of the the towns themselves become somewhat soulless and chain-filled, fans cling even harder to an idealized, nostalgia-tinged version of English football. So a club from a traditionally working class town in the West Midlands for example is a 'proper club' despite dwindling attendances in an out of town bowl sponsored by a betting company, and despite the town itself retaining a lot less original character than 'tinpot' places like Brighton and Fulham.

We need more explanation on what makes a 'proper club'. For sure we know that Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford are not 'proper clubs'. So I'm guessing they need to play in the Midlands or the North. Not had success in a while. Preferably in a town that makes 1980s Beirut look like an attractive holiday destination.

God yes. I remember his name very vaguely from studying mid 90s squad lists in my youth. Whatever happened to him...

Some of the clubs are very big historically, and very well supported. You'd think a lot of 'games gone' English fans would like that, but as usual it's just a big pose. That and the fact that you have a much better chance of getting to the final, which I'd still rather do in the UECL than get knocked out in the UCL first stage. As a couple of others have said, in a way I'd rather Forest get top 5 and then get dumped out of the UCL than progress further in a lesser competition.

Salernitana and Frosnione playoffing for the final relegation place after like Samp just coming down from Serie A. Serie B obviously a difficult league to get relegated to...

I spent a lot of time in Istanbul and I remember the first time I learned there's a district called Eyup Sultan. Struggled to keep a straight face any time someone mentioned it

It will be, but beyond that there is an attitude in England to the Conference league, and even the Europa league, which goes back years and comes across as at best arrogant and at worst xenophobic. I'm not saying that's why my fellow Foxestalkers are wallowing in Forest's poor form, but it definitely exists in this country in general.

Happy to laugh at Forest if they blow the top 5, but the denigration of the Conference League from English fans in general is very silly. They'll mostly be good away trips to well supported clubs who are unlucky to be playing in leagues that UEFA have locked out of elite football. Smacks of English arrogance and prejudice, especially when you look at the some of the soulless out of town bowls in post-industrial hell holes we have in this country.

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I think he's saying that'll be the Russian line

Danny Ward esque effort from the keeper

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Iconic names of the game. I can tell from how they roll off your tongue you're an expert.