Chrysalis

Results wise its polar opposite to last season, last season we lost all the tight games, so our points tally was poor compared to the goal difference. This season we have had a ton of one goal victories, so in effect maximising our points to goals ratio. The problem now is we are now dropping more points than the start of the season and as you said both Leeds and Southampton have really hit form, I dont think Ipswich are dropping off so we do need to stay ahead of both teams. Just have to hope Enzo cracks the problems.

Even though I have moaned a bit the last couple of days, I do agree its still better than the last two Rodgers seasons.

I accept that of course, and its why I say you can setup to play possession, but you can also play with pace mixed in with that when the chances arise, we didnt do it mid week, but thankfully we did it today to get this second goal.

I expect their players and manager like that, makes it easier when not in the limelight.

I think I see the issue now, you see things like that counter goal as "beneath" possession, because perhaps you feel possession is a higher level of football or something. But in my opinion those type of goals still need skill, you have to get your pass right with the pace of the player moving forward, stay onside, and also a test of fitness and endurance as well as composure. But anyway, the goal proved you can mix in counter's whilst also playing possession. We could have chosen not to snatch that chance and instead start passing it around, west brom go back into defensive shape, and then do you think we would have got the winner?

You are over complicating it. It can mean any of them. If a forward pass is on, its a low pass on the ground, Vesty has done it several times earlier in the season. It can mean dribbling forward with the ball, Both KDH and Ndidi have done it this season, Faes also. It can mean a counter attack, we have scored a fair few goals from counters this season. (thankfully we do this more often now than we did under rodgers). It can of course mean a hoof. At least you asked the question instead of saying "hoof brigade".

I find this point of view totally bizarre, its a very black and white point of view where people think you can only play one style for an entire game. Yes you can play possession whilst also mixing in some counter attacks when the opportunity is there. The top teams do it routinely. So trying to spell it out, we played possession for majority of game, but we did a counter attack for the goal, is that possible to understand?

Oh, I didnt say we were playing that for the game, and I never said we should be playing counter for the entire game as well.

All I can say is we not seeing the same patterns if you didnt notice the similarity in their off the ball play, I also didnt say there is only one way to mitigate our style either. I have the opinion anyone that says you can only play football one way every game for an entire season doesnt understand the modern game, the best teams change their style multiple times in a single match, its a game of chess between managers shuffling their tactics. Brighton, Man City do it routinely every game, they play hybrid, pass it out the back, they get it to the opponents third with pace, and then start pressuring them from outside their box. Not sure why people people try to say we playing Pep's system, we not. Man City only play keep ball when they leading comfortably.

Looked like a clear counter type move to me with KDH and Winks sprinting forward to score the winner. Hopefully they didnt get told off afterwards for getting forward and scoring too quickly.

Missed the game but I see from sky's lazy highlights we actually countered to get the winner, instead of the recent tip tap with few minutes left.

Over an entire competition? I have seen many finals and such won by counter's.

Sometimes you have to ignore whats going on in training, there is players who have game performances that dont tie in with training, adrenaline can do crazy things. Given how lacklustre we have been up front Cannon should have had some pitch time at this point. Some managers in past have even admitted they had great players who made no effort at all in training. Would be unfit etc.

The club could also avoid interest by our owners loaning interest free or just pushing in the cash as a gift, no FFP excuse on infrastructure.

Well according to a post in the other thread, apparently we didnt play slow enough from Enzo. So it looks like he might be going all in on this strategy and we have to hope he can pull through it. But of course he could be telling the press BS, and doing something else behind closed doors.

There is rotating and there is shuffling the pack, he shuffled the pack. Can rotate without switching out 6 players.

The biggest problem that might be had is if one thinks the solution is to improve the execution of the style. When I say lessons learned, I will be clear, the lesson is learning that the style will need to be changed up. For some reason there is people who think Brighton and Pep play this way, they dont. They play out the back, but once the ball is clear of danger, they then find a way to get it up the pitch and then carry on playing the ball in the opponents half, they dont do loads of backward passes in their own third. Both teams will also counter on transition. In modern football successful teams have to learn to play in different ways otherwise they get figured out, and without a gulf in quality of the players that cant be overcome. In modern football 7 games is a long enough time to form an opinion of a pattern, the years where we go oh just give the guy a couple of seasons to figure it out are gone. A club could be bankrupted by that. The pattern is we are being figured out, we either need to up the tempo consistently so we basically outplaying the other team, or if the players cant manage that be prepared to change up at points, move to a hybrid system or just change it when it isnt working in games, I dont think anyone is calling for radical wholesale changes, just pointing out we have been figured out and the chasing pack is closing. The blistering start has kind of worked against Enzo, if we were stuck mid table and it was a clear transition season he would have time to experiment, allow off form players to bed in to the style etc. but as it has turned out we in a promotion battle which is not as comfortable as we thought it was going to be. Results are now priority over the style. However I do agree the problem may be down to the personel, he has become a bit of a tinkerer, I think coady's inclusion has upset the balance, we are missing doyle, dropping both KDH and ndidi at same time was madness as we lost all attacking capability, Kasey's injury has upset his goalscoring form and both our main strikers are too cold. The play from the back has also changed, vesty barely went forward in the last game, and also did only safe passes, the players around him didnt get forward either, that seems a clear change of tact of heeding a caution first approach, I hope Enzo isnt falling into the same trap as rodgers did thinking about what the other team might do instead of setting his own up to be dangerous.

He is in no danger of being sacked, few months into first season and still top of the table, I think if we fail to finish top 6 there would be a possibility, its also possible of course he will improve and learn from whats happening, Rodgers issue lasted for multiple years, whilst for Enzo for me its a 7 game run of gradually dropping performances. I think with Top he wants a manager who plays a certain way, and he isnt going to keep finding these managers so will likely be cautious and give time.

Well you cant start using if's and then expect us to ignore the clear cut chances they had at the start of the game.

We should have lost 4-1 Luckily Wednesday have poor quality up front.

I would maybe have this line up. Hermansen Faes Vesty Hamza Justin KDH Winks Kasey Ndidi Fatawu Canon Or Hermansen Faes Vesty Justin Ricardo Winks Kasey Ndidi KDH Fatawu Canon Think I am guilty of trying to shoe horn players in now.

I didnt want to do it but I think the results with him playing and not playing are very lopsided. I notice he struggles to control the ball a little bit which is surprising as he was brought in as a possession player, but feel we are perhaps suffering with the position he is now playing as he isnt really getting forward just is like a 2nd vesty on the pitch, but we only need one CB doing that role.

They had the chances to win 4-1, 1-1 as it turns out was a good result given how the game went. Which says it all really.

I think we have owner influence on the game we play. Its a thing in the game, some owners come out and admit they want to play a certain way, ours hasnt but all the appointments we have made, and that when managers start off playing one way and then change to me indicates influence from above them. I do believe in playing out from the back as hoofed clearances usually come back at you, but there is no need to then play out from that point forward, once its under control and out of the danger area is when I think the game needs to be more direct, and that is indeed how teams like villa, Brighton and man city actually play. We are doing this under Enzo occasionally which is where most of our goals have come from, and sometimes the team ups their intensity when they realise they need to like 2nd half vs Watford, but what I dont like seeing is passes into the midfield being pinged back to the defender without the player even looking to see a pass is on or a space he can run into whilst the game is at 0-0 or 1-0. KDH and Ndidi seem our two most consistent players now trying to get it forward, especially KDH who I now think is our most key player. Both of those didnt start the last game.

Agree, we have seen him do it as well. I think its probably instructions that he maintains possession for us.