Tom12345

Our RB defensive position problematic again!

What’s happened to Vardy and Ricardo?

Give both Soumare and Cooper a chance. For those who know from my posts, I am not easy to please. But I have seen enough for us to give them chance, at least until Jan (or more depending on how it goes).

He is a bulldozer. He seems to be a confidence player. Unfortunately, as we all know, our fan base is very quick to criticise and boo our own players. That could not have been good for him. He is definitely good enough to be a squad player, which means that he can come on as a sub. So many here were booing even with him just coming on as a sub (not even as a starter). Give the guy confidence and some time.

Winks is living dangerously here. It is like talking about how your ex is better in front of your current partner and wishing to do it the old way. No wonder he was dropped earlier. But you have to give it to Cooper that he listened.

After watching Strider’s analysis, I can now consolidate my thoughts on Cooper bringing Soumare on. After we subbed Ricardo, we didn’t have an inverted full back anymore and we lost a midfield pivot. Forest was starting to game manage and we were also chasing the game. In particular, Forest really compressed the midfield. So shifting Ndidi there would put us in more trouble and we also don’t need him to crash through as an AM as much because Forest were sitting back more. Bringing on Skipp could be the other option, but Soumare has a greater ability to run and carry the ball. He did so a few times. He didn’t do too badly although in the circumstances he obviously didn’t shine either. In other words, you can see why Soumare was brought on.

Great analysis. Spot on with everything in my humble view.

What a weekend of football so far. Watched the Brighton vs Wolves game. Brighton blew it with a 2-0 lead until late in the game. But looking at them, I have to say we are not too far behind them and they were not that much better. They have a few more talented players for sure, but gives me hope we are not too far behind the pack outside of the top 6. Palace beating Spurs. Everton picking up a point as well. We will soon be in a relegation fight if we don’t lift our game soon.

I don’t really know what game some fans watched, but in the one I watched Ricardo was ok. We have to remember crucially that the team did not play like they did this season at all, and this was under a coach which did not teach the inverted full back system (that was Enzo), and they probably didn’t have much practice, and who knows if Cooper actually knew how to train the team in doing this (his instructions might have been: just do what Enzo told you to do last season, to the best of what you can recall). And Ricardo did ok. He started the move that led to our first goal. We were the better team in the first half. Then 3 silly mistakes (not by him) and he had to be sacrificed. We were ok on the right side defensively. It was JJ’s left side that Forest smoked us. Just because we lost we don’t need to go all negative on Ricardo. Many fans were saying he was our best player. Then the comments above and elsewhere in the Forest related threads - crazy and I really don’t understand.

I can’t believe I am saying this after a loss and after all the comments I made about Cooper’s selection and tactics. But Cooper actually listened to the fans and started Ricardo. He was willing to try something new. He played Ndidi further up instead of one of the pivot positions which goes a long way towards not repeating the mistakes Rodgers made for so long and against what many fans cannot see (I would not even start Ndidi and would start Bilal or McAteer instead but that is another point). He answered our calls. But the main point is that he is showing us that he understands and he is willing to experiment - something that Rodgers never showed. That is the sign of a potentially good manager - although he still needs to show us that he can do it (which he has not). As he is still experimenting, please give him more time. I think he is on to something if he is given the confidence and belief to try. It is a test of his character and mentality now over the next few games.

As for the third goal, you have a point. Perhaps we have an organisational issue. At the moment, there seems to be no clear leader. Faes shouts but as we know he is more about waving his hands and blaming others, so it is hard to see the other two respecting or listening to him. Therefore, perhaps there may also be a deeper leadership issue.

Just on the Winks pass, I agree it was the right pass. Fatawu was unfortunately blocked by the ref and he didn’t see what Winks was doing until the ball had gone past the ref. I actually thought the ref was partly to blame for that. However, the culprit for that was Okoli. As a CB, allowing someone that close to turn and shoot is really a mistake. Vesty would have blocked that.

Yeah, just watched a post match interview with the Forest captain Yates. He said Leicester surprised them first half, playing a box in midfield with Ricardo and Winks both being “comfortable on the ball” and there were just the two of them (on the Forest side) in midfield not knowing who of the deep lying midfielders to press, so both Ricardo and Winks got to be freer to run our midfield. So again, it reinforced the notion that having Ricardo inverting is good and not having Ndidi there is logical - it is something that opposition teams are very conscious of. Yates said they talked about it at halftime and made a few tweaks with their fullbacks coming in to help. I guess we didn’t really know whether that really was the reason why we failed the second half in fairness to Cooper - as Cooper and Nunos both said post match the early second half goal put us on the back foot straight away. What I want to really say is I think we were on to something first half. We just need to rid ourselves of our self inflicted implosions with our individual defensive lapses.

I think we should give Cooper some slack here. He tried Ricardo as the inverted FB, partnering Winks in possession and freeing Ndidi to be a destroyer at AM. Some of us criticised him for not trying that, but he did. Kudos for that. I thought if not for the series of brain farts (Justin’s non clearance especially) that led to the Forrest’s first goal, we were the better team with more control of the game in the first half. Winks and Ricardo had plenty of space to operate in midfield with our two wingers and Ndidi stretching the pitch. Forrest had no answers to that. Our first goal was a clear demonstration of this and it was a beauty. But then came half time and Forrest adjusted a bit to counter that. But I thought we could have carried on playing like we did in the first half if we didn’t concede so early. Again, it was a defensive mistake. Wood should not have been offered so much room to turn and shoot. Okoli at fault there. We tried to get back into it but then another defensive brain fart led to their third goal. By then, Forrest could just sit back and game manage. We could not break them down. Cooper may well think this is due to Ricardo and the inverted FB system. I hope he doesn’t and it is worth for him to develop this in his own way further. We just had too many defensive lapses this game and both Faes and Justin were constantly having them this game. Okoli had the one with Wood turning but he was otherwise fine. So I would put this lost more down to a new system that the players need time to adjust (back) to and there were far too many mistakes by our defenders. I wouldn’t mind dropping Justin and using Kristiansen in the same set up next game. I don’t know how to solve the Faes’ regular lapses, and perhaps we need to bring Vesty back with Okoli being the faster partner. In summary, good signs showed in the first half, but individual mistakes costed us and we were poor second half.

Noted. OK. (Though I still don’t think it is right to say that of Evans in his final year with us as to me the problem was the team set up. How can a team with the squad we had be relegated … still baffles me …).

Mate, again, it was the set up. Blaming one player for all those failures is unfair. Your argument could be used re say Maddison too? He was playing well for us as far as I can recall, but he was also around during all those years? Maddison is still doing well at Spurs?

Maybe you are just trying to downplay a player for the sake of making a point to support Faes. It is ok if you think more highly of Faes than me, but Evans was consistently good for a long time. I am sure he had bad games too, but certainly I don’t think he had been “very bad for a fairly large period of time”. His class was always there (he was a Fergie favourite). He was just part of a very poor set up by Rodgers who, as I said, focused on our defenders passing out from the back as you may recall, but they had no support from midfield especially with Ndidi as the midfield pivot and they were constantly under pressure from the opposition press (and Ndidi passing the ball back to them or putting them under pressure). The set up forced team mistakes after team mistakes, and we could hardly get out of our own half. Blame is wrongly placed on Evans if you analyse a few levels down.

The point is that Evans is a few levels above Faes in terms of class. Faes will never reach peak Evans. A 36 year old Evans is arguably still better than Faes. Certainly, getting a game at Leicester is not a good gauge whether he is good too … at least at the minute

Had a very poor game today. Got outpaced and out played.

Yet, he is still playing at Man Utd. He was “bad” because the whole team morale and tactic su*ked. It was on Rodgers. He is worldclass. Class is permanent. Work ethic, concentration level, vision, game reading, positioning (especially) - all worldclass. He was let down by his teammates and the way Rodgers set up the team. As I mentioned back then, we could not get out of our half and were making too many mistakes because in modern football, all teams press and unfortunately unlike Enzo Rodgers used Ndidi as the single pivot much of the time. We all know how that goes.

He is no Evans.

Indeed. Think of the caliber of players we had too. We lost Maddison and Barnes in the process. We lost Tielemans and Perez for free (problem with the contracting side). We also had Nacho. Signed Soumare, Daka, Praet, Fofana, etc. We genuinely had a top squad. We had a chance to be a regular top 6 playing in Europe. We were in CL spots for 2 seasons running and we choked. Rodgers blew it and it costed the club a lot of money.

He must be pissed all three goals came “through” our defenders.

Defensive lapses not Ricardo’s causing. But he is getting subbed.

Yeah and he has freed up Bounuette though by drawing defenders to him. Plus with Ricardo moving up, we have an extra men in midfield. We are having a lot of space and fun in the Forrest half. I really like this setup.