LCFCJohn

Nobody expects to finish top 4 every season. That’s completely false, hyperbolic, dramatic and unhelpful and comments like that prompt a reaction and contribute towards the divide in our fanbase. I expressed my thoughts in the post above your reply to this, replying to OnlyOneCity. I am against the owners and think the players by and large are not fit to wear the shirt. But people are entitled to make their own decision either way. We have achieved an enormous amount in the last 30 years. We are top 6 behind Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool in the Premier League era for trophies won. But many more people than Vichai and Aiyawatt were behind those achievements. I don’t recall Vichai keeping clean sheets and Aiyawatt winning the golden boot! Why can’t people that are intent on defending the owners and attacking fans who are expressing dissatisfaction accept/understand that it is not about continually winning trophies or finishing top 4, but that we just want the club back that we can relate to, with a squad of players we can like, not being subject of financial issues year in year out, not spending beyond our means and unable to shift deadwood. Poor communications, the club being used as Thai propaganda. Loads more and none of it about finishing top 4 and winning cups each year. Why does that continually get ignored? Is it so you can continue to get the digs in? Please just answer this as it gets ignored time and time again by other posters.

I do think it’s a minority who are saying that to be fair. Most probably respect others reasons for continuing to attend. But it’s a two way street and those who have stopped going shouldn’t be accused of not being proper supporters as has been happening in this thread. Everyone has their own view and way they think it should be dealt with. I tend to agree with your post otherwise. All I would add is the point about merchandise and food/drink from the stadium. If people say they are unhappy with the running of the club but want to continue to support the manager and players, that can stop at the turnstile so to speak (financially). If people continue to spend in the shop and buy the overpriced food and drink in the ground, I would respectfully suggest they aren’t unhappy with the running of the club. As for the players, the vast majority are not fit to wear the shirt but we are seeming to be at a worrying point with Faes’ actions after his goal last week, Winks mannerisms and now Fatawu’s post. It’s getting toxic and something needs to happen. At the very least, that is showing active support to the many of the players. If people have a few players they cannot actively support, at least indifference rather than boo. Take players like Thomas and Justin. They are not good enough but they are inoffensive otherwise. Or just call their bluff by supporting them. They are saying it’s the fans fault but personally, I don’t think these players have any drive and desire to put the effort in regardless so just be the bigger people and leave them nowhere to hide! Final thought is, anger against the board and owner can be separated from the players. Look at Wednesday. I think most of the frustration is at those who genuinely still love the owner and think he can do no wrong. Those who attend and make their voices heard against the running of the club are doing the right thing.

100%. I think in many ways, modern football is just sterile. The club as you have alluded to (although your example is pre-KP) actively try to discourage an atmosphere and prefer the day tripper, hobbiest types. I think there is a difference between fans who won’t be the up for 90 minutes, singing non-stop, because they are also watching the game, but will add to the atmosphere when the players need it, and many of what makes up our crowd now, KP disciples, coming in late, leaving earlier, moaning at fans trying to create an atmosphere, well moaning at anyone but the only time they show the slightest bit of passion is to attack fans who question the owner….. It’s why I am happy just to catch games on TV now. The purpose of going to the stadium is for the atmosphere. But given that is none existent, it adds nothing. It was fine up to 2016, then the fanbase just got divided, as above, KP sycophants and sterile style of football served up at the owners request.

Excellent reply to be fair as you could have risen to my tone Appreciate the context of when you started out. Sometimes it feels like some people chuck 50 years as an arbitrary number to justify being a better supporter than those younger but obviously not always and not the case with yourself. I often think, everything that could have happened to us has since 2000. So you can have supported this club 25 years and seen it all, and for 50 and not really seen anything different! I don’t believe the frustration is based on these last two results. It is as you allude to, the broader issues. I think it is frustrating for people who are venting anger to be accused of being entitled and results driven when it really isn’t the case (for most). I agree about their being more important things to get upset about or indeed spend time on. I have just spent most of the day with my wife and daughter at a local food festival, a great way to spend a Sunday I wouldn’t really agree with the paragraph you mention bravado and Wednesday in that I do think the situation at this club is getting serious and it is up to supporters to fight for that. We have fallen so far in the last 5 years, if the same happens again in the next 5, a Wednesday situation here is scarily likely. I do agree the forum can by hyperbolic and like you say, reactive to the last name although the frustration around the handling of the club is a constant now regardless of results. I also class myself as a mild mannered and balanced poster although certain topics or posts can get my goat and cause a reaction. I can’t say I have every seen anything from your handle that stands out as being really out their so I believe you are the same as you have said. I appreciate that despite my tone toward you, you have still classed me as sensible enough to have a pint with 🍻

Missing the point completely with that last jibe there. It’s not about being good. Do you think if that’s all people cared about they’d be watching non-league where the quality is lower? No, people would follow non-league because it is authentic, enjoyable and a throw back to how the game was before money infected it. People are fed up because of the culture around this club, not the fact we are in the second division FFS!

I would say he fits the 3rd one? Disillusioned and started following non-league to get that enjoyment back. It doesn’t mean you are suddenly not an LCFC supporter.

I started at 8 years old in 2001. Not my fault I am not older haha! But yeah, I guess was a different game back then. I must admit, I often find I get so absorbed in the game, I can be quiet but due to being engrossed. I don’t know if that makes me a problem or not. I suppose I would join in with the atmosphere but wouldn’t be an instigator.

I don’t mind him posting that as long as he has had something to say in the changing rooms to his team mates as well.

So the only fans are those that attend each week? What about those who live too far away? What about those who can’t afford what top level football has become to follow and go to non league because it’s cheaper? What about those who have attended for years/decades and found that football at this level has become all together too stale and find lower level football more authentic as well as affordable?

It’s a fair point and maybe it depends on circumstance. On a game by game basis, definitely yes. I think I was thinking more our case. I think we have a group of players that you could roar on for 90 minutes, and they have so little drive and desire to put the effort in, we would not see anything different. We are so many years into this apathy that is served up, it has drained even those who would usually be more positive and vocal. Obviously we have a high proportion of hanger on types anyway which doesn’t help. I also believe the stale type of football we have been served up for many years isn’t conducive to getting the crowd fired up. Give where we are now, if you ask what it takes to break the rot and staleness of it all, I would say it needs the players to show they are serious about the task in hand and put a shift in. The reaction of the crowd will quickly follow in my opinion of course.

One that is here for the enjoyment of playing the game? And this is likely a wider issue about the game as it is now and the money involved, but 30 years ago, a young kid says they want to be a footballer. Why? Because of the love of the game and emulating their own heroes. And now? I bet in too many cases, money and fame. This is evidenced by how many will sit around waiting for their contract to expire rather than moving, given they are so unhappy of course.

I would say the onus is mainly on the players for 2 reasons. Mainly, they are the ones with the influence to impact what is happening on the pitch. They can lift the fans. It doesn’t have to be a worldie of a goal, it could be a lung busting run to chase down a loose ball, a hard tackle followed by a roar to the crowd, pressing and harrying. All these things show effort and lift the fans but we are missing all this as the players just appear to be going through the motions. And secondly, it can’t be avoided, finances. Fans pay hard earned money to attend games. I know we hate the fact we can be treated as customers, but in this context, it applies. Fans pay for a service, which is a performance (I say performance not results), so it is up to the service provided to do so. The fact they are paid what they are is a side point.

I don’t agree with much of what you say based on your staunch defence of anything to do with the club and owner but I think this is spot on and something 99%+ of us should agree on (the -1% being those who are of this mentality). Most of the players are dislikable and I can’t wait for them to go. But to take satisfaction in them being poor is counter productive. Like those who say we would better staying down. No, we would be better going back up, being sensible and not chucking £30mill on Ayew and Skipp!

Honestly this just comes across as a very apathetic, I’ve been able to enjoy the club in my time so who cares about the future. Comes across a quite a selfish view. Many of us want a health club we can get behind supporting for years and decades into the future as well. I think people such as yourself who use the ‘supported for 50 years’ line, miss the point as to why people are pissed off. Myself, I have supported this club since 2001 when I was 8. I have seen all the ups and downs, from the low of administration, Championship wilderness, relegation to League 1 and to the highs of 2016 and 2021. I didn’t even think I was supporting a club who could have back to back seasons in the Premier League until it happened in 2014. So it’s nothing to do with being relegated, or not being a fixture in the Premier League. It’s the culture of the club and the way it is being run. But this has been covered so often on here. Those who don’t get it (or appear not to), either have their heads so far in the sand or are trolling. Where I do agree is backing Cifuentes and those calling for him already are a joke. As for the young players, yes exciting. But remember this crop of players has been in the making as a Premier League club. As our standing drops further, we are unlikely to produce these quality players in the same number again. Yes, there will be the odd one (there’s always been a Shilton or Linekar from time to time) but it will become infrequent and they will be taken for pennies in the current football world.

I don’t agree with picking on Faes for that individually but the fact Monga had scored his first senior goal and all apart from Fatawu just turned and walked away shows how rotten the culture is. From all the team not just Faes but including him. Monga showed ultimate professionalism running to get on with the game but they could still have come over and congratulated him and run back with him like Fatawu did.

Erm, there’s something a bit incorrect with this point….

Haha all good points. I get they have a limit on caller time so I think you got a lot of good content in. The other thing I noticed, and it’s something I have thought about when comparisons with Wednesday are made, when they said the stadium is good. The Walkers was a new stadium, 6/7 years old when KP arrived. You can already see lack of maintenance in the ground. If we still had Filbert Street (build 1891 compared to Hillsborough in 1899 but same era), the situation would be the same as lack of care and maintenance is just that, we are just fortunate that our ground is newer from before KP than Wednesday are. So that was another nonsense point from them as an attempt to defend Aiyawatt.

Agreed. I just worry that a portion of our fans base will now be on his back every week, waiting for a mistake due to the fact they have decided he isn’t good enough as they loved Hermansen. We need to support him.

Your were great The presenters were pathetic though. Completely side stepped your point about what would they have said if you’d said 5 years ago this is where we would be, refer to Aiyawatt as a little boy and then call you disingenuous at the end for the donut and beer comment. Not a criticism as you spoke fantastically well and made the points we all say on here, but I would have just had to pull them up on the little boy (he is 40) comment as that was laughable. The reason I am sure they sidestepped and didn’t answer the point about 5 years ago to now is because they know the answer to that….

100% in agreement with those who have made references to greed, playing for himself and thinking he is a cut above. I noticed this last week that he just wouldn’t bloody pass l! Always just wanting to get the shot off himself regardless. Greed. And as one of the most senior players on the pitch when Monga scored yesterday, where was he? Nowhere to be seen. These traits and observations show that he does not have the attitude we want to see at this club. He is not the only one but he epitomises it.

It was an awful mistake but it’s the first time he’s done anything like that. Let’s not pretend he’s like Ward doing that type of crap each week. Whilst he may have areas for improving such as kicking and distribution, as a keeper and shot stopper, he’s been extremely solid in what we have seen up to now so I hope people can avoid getting on his back and support him, rather than judge him off one event. Interestingly, everyone second coming, Mads Hermansen, conceded 3 to newly promoted Sunderland yesterday. The first a header from a long way out that he should have got to but his starting position looked poor and the third looked to go pretty much straight under him. Bad days at the office and they happen.

What do you think the answer is then? Seriously. It sounds like you think everyone should just clap the team, say nothing about the way the owner is running the club into the ground and go home and rinse and repeat the next week. I get people don’t want to just stop going and respect that. However, buying stuff at the stadium does not help the manager and players in any way so I do think every single fan should turn off that source of income. Take your own food, wear an older retro shirt. Save your money for better things. As for making voices heard against the owner, Rudkin etc, you really think that affects the players? Of course not, it’s just an excuse not to. Makes me smile when people say ‘I’m not happy with things but…’ and go on a ramble about not protesting or making feelings heard. Clearly you aren’t unhappy with the state of the club if that’s the case and why not just own that?

Jealously and insecurity…. They can’t stand that they are failing whilst a 16 year old comes in and puts them all to shame.

Really embarrassing for the rest of the team (Fatawu aside) that a 16 year old has scored his first senior goal, picked the ball up to go again, looking to win the game and they all just turn their backs and walk off looking completely unbothered about both the personal achievement of the kid and winning the game Can’t wait for them all to f*** off. This is why the KP clappers can f*** off as well. They think it’s all just about people not being happy when not winning every week. This is a prime example of why many of us have had it with this leadership of the club. The culture is absolutely rotten and those who can’t see it are clueless.

Shame his moment is in vain regarding the result. Kind of hard to get excited about his performances when you know he will be off before too long though.