ronnup Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 He was carrying weapons when he wasnt supposed to. He knew it too. He had a long criminal history and anyone who has been convicted in the past of any violent crimes isnt allowed to carry a weapon... In the U.S anyone who runs from the police gives them probable cause to detain them. And whilst i might be naive for trying to take race out of the equation, that doesnt mean that taking race out of the equation is an ideology thats wrong to aim for... and believe me, having lived in the states now for 5 years im very aware of the racial devide and racial inequalities. So you're very aware, but simply think they should be ignored?
ronnup Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 He was carrying weapons when he wasnt supposed to. He knew it too. He had a long criminal history and anyone who has been convicted in the past of any violent crimes isnt allowed to carry a weapon... In the U.S anyone who runs from the police gives them probable cause to detain them. And whilst i might be naive for trying to take race out of the equation, that doesnt mean that taking race out of the equation is an ideology thats wrong to aim for... and believe me, having lived in the states now for 5 years im very aware of the racial devide and racial inequalities. Detain / murder?
MPH Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 Detain / murder? he was detained, then arrested. you'll know all the details then to be accusing someone of murder?
MPH Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 So you're very aware, but simply think they should be ignored? clearly not been reading. Pay attention.
ronnup Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 clearly not been reading. Pay attention. I think that's slightly unfair. 'Why even mention the colour of his skin?' 'Playing the race card' Pretty strong stuff for someone who is very aware of the inequalities and systemic racist issues in the states. I always find it interesting when peoe say that race is no longer an issue in a country that had 'Jim Crow' laws in the last 60 years and slavery only 2/3 generations a go. It's a lovely ideal to say race isn't important, but I just disagree.
MPH Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 I think that's slightly unfair. 'Why even mention the colour of his skin?' 'Playing the race card' Pretty strong stuff for someone who is very aware of the inequalities and systemic racist issues in the states. I always find it interesting when peoe say that race is no longer an issue in a country that had 'Jim Crow' laws in the last 60 years and slavery only 2/3 generations a go. It's a lovely ideal to say race isn't important, but I just disagree. Not unfair at all. If you could point out to me anywhere i said that any racial divide should be ignored or an inequality ignored then i'd love to know. Whats slightly unfair is you accusing me of saying those things should be ignored when i hadnt said anything of the sort. talk about jumping to conclusions...
ronnup Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 image.jpg Provocative, I know... But let's remember what starts all this.... Aside from being flippant, don't you think this is slightly naive to racial inequalities and he mistreatment of black people by the American law enforcement organisation? An origination that has been found to have systemic racist issues over and over again. And that doesn't even start to contemplate the issue of black crime and destitution. What is your opinion on why black peoe are so over represented in prisons in the states? Genuinely?
MPH Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 What is your opinion on why black peoe are so over represented in prisons in the states? Genuinely? Covered in a similar thread recently.. My last few posts... Not trying to be short with you... Trying to work!
MPH Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 Without wishing to start a whole new debate extreme poverty is often the underlying issue there, not the colour of anyones skin... evemn if it does manifest itself in ugly ways... As mentioned above the issue can often be down to that person being from an area of extreme poverty, qhich often leads to a higher crime rate in that area, their skin colour is not the problem.I do know a cop who is a little bit racist. He works at the local jail. He said he processed 25 sex offenders into the jail one saturday and all 25 of them were either black or hispanic.... Now i feel thats linked the the point i just mentioned but that could in part explain the last half of your last sentance... Spot on... and what escalates the problem is that SOME white americans look at the class system see that it affects some black areas and realise there are not white ghettos in this area and , see the crime iisues in a black ghetto and jump to the onclusion that ' black people commit alot of crime sotherefor its because they are bacl and black people are criminals. Hate to say it but especially some of the older generation. I often feel very exasperated when trying to reason with them on this...
ronnup Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 Covered in a similar thread recently.. My last few posts... Not trying to be short with you... Trying to work! No problem mate, I appreciate an informed opinion from someone living in the states. I've spent some time in he states, and what I saw in places like Memphis, Birmingham, New Orleans, San Francisco, LA, Baltimore and DC made me shiver. And I also had loads of conversations with young black men who were just so ridiculously disaffected.
Merging Cultures Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 Surprised that no-one has mentioned these, horrible scenes and just an awful situation where if you are born one side of a line, your life is completely different to someone just 5 miles away. And, given everyone's interest in The Wire, its almost as if we know the place? I would be very interested to hear the opinions of our US foxes and of course Merging Cultures, given that used to be your home? Speaking of The Wire, interesting article from the writer... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/david-simon-capitalism-marx-two-americas-wire?CMP=soc_567 Just been too sad about it to comment really. I mentioned the arrest/death in the American Police thread. Some shops down the road from where I lived were looted, my mates have been cooped up at home, the city is hurting.
Merging Cultures Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 As I said on the American Police thread, this was an unfortunate accident, where the police followed most of the protocol for detaining the suspect, however they should have got him medical attention when requested. However, there are two issues 1. Police need to adjust their protocols and not rely on knees to the neck but work on their conflict resolution 2. It is a race issue for black people, why? Because they feel their lives are worth less than white lives. It is their perception, which we can't and shouldn't decrease in value. Sure, some people try to take advantage of it and in reality there is more of a class issue. But if you are living in a particular environment and situation, often what you perceive to be reality is your reality. I can understand why people hurt and want to protest. I can't understand why they would destroy their own City.
ADK Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 People do odd things. The London riots were similar. People get carried away, a lot of it is just taking the restraints away and people not even engaging their brains. It's like teenagers having a party and trashing their own home.
Merging Cultures Posted 29 April 2015 Posted 29 April 2015 Most of the rioters are high school teenagers apparently. So good analogy.
ozleicester Posted 30 April 2015 Author Posted 30 April 2015 As I said on the American Police thread, this was an unfortunate accident, where the police followed most of the protocol for detaining the suspect, however they should have got him medical attention when requested. However, there are two issues 1. Police need to adjust their protocols and not rely on knees to the neck but work on their conflict resolution 2. It is a race issue for black people, why? Because they feel their lives are worth less than white lives. It is their perception, which we can't and shouldn't decrease in value. Sure, some people try to take advantage of it and in reality there is more of a class issue. But if you are living in a particular environment and situation, often what you perceive to be reality is your reality. I can understand why people hurt and want to protest. I can't understand why they would destroy their own City. Its been doing the rounds on social media and attributed to MLK, im not sure if its his quote etc, but i think its very relevant... "Riot is the language of the unheard"
Merging Cultures Posted 30 April 2015 Posted 30 April 2015 FYI no previous back problems http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html
ozleicester Posted 1 May 2015 Author Posted 1 May 2015 FYI no previous back problems http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html Shameful situation where this has been doing the rounds on social media, people keeping the story alive and a part explanation as to why the riots happen in my opinion. People BLAMING the victim... is it racist?... quite probably is it about blaming the poor? .. almost definitely. If my brother..cousin, relative... had been tortured and murdered by the police and no-one was charged, and i see this happen day after day. Im pretty sure i would be angry, and looking for a way to let people know of my anger. Telling the police... clearly not going to work. Telling local representatives... hasnt worrked previously. Tell the media ... not interested. Burn down the city... people listen. I think id do it.
Guest MattP Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Yeah, burn down your own City and randomly attack everyone who isn't the same race as you. That's a great way to get people to listen, I mean, it worked after Rodney King didn't it? Some racist Americans believe black people are savages who turn to turn to crime and violence whenever they disagree with something, this will certainly prove them wrong. Still, I suppose it's easy to spout this total nonsense when you sat thousands of miles away in Australia, it's not your city, business or home being burned to the ground is it?
David Guiza Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Yeah, burn down your own City and randomly attack everyone who isn't the same race as you. That's a great way to get people to listen, I mean, it worked after Rodney King didn't it? Some racist Americans believe black people are savages who turn to turn to crime and violence whenever they disagree with something, this will certainly prove them wrong. Still, I suppose it's easy to spout this total nonsense when you sat thousands of miles away in Australia, it's not your city, business or home being burned to the ground is it? Whilst I agree somewhat with what you're saying, the same racist American's are perhaps the kind of people whom riot for the following reasons - http://www.alternet.org/11-stupid-reasons-white-people-have-rioted Of course trashing your own city and consequently endangering the lives and homes of so many people, in your own community, is wrong. But, what would be your answer if you were in their situation? I'm not claiming to have an answer myself, but at times like these morality and sense go out of the window. It's not just a black thing, or an American thing either.
Darkon84 Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Shameful situation where this has been doing the rounds on social media, people keeping the story alive and a part explanation as to why the riots happen in my opinion. People BLAMING the victim... is it racist?... quite probably is it about blaming the poor? .. almost definitely. If my brother..cousin, relative... had been tortured and murdered by the police and no-one was charged, and i see this happen day after day. Im pretty sure i would be angry, and looking for a way to let people know of my anger. Telling the police... clearly not going to work. Telling local representatives... hasnt worrked previously. Tell the media ... not interested. Burn down the city... people listen. I think id do it. When are we expecting to see you burning down race courses then? No wonder you sympathise with PETA. Completely sensationalist and irrational behaviour, highlighted by the way you composed the post above. Jesus!
Guest MattP Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Whilst I agree somewhat with what you're saying, the same racist American's are perhaps the kind of people whom riot for the following reasons - http://www.alternet.org/11-stupid-reasons-white-people-have-rioted Of course trashing your own city and consequently endangering the lives and homes of so many people, in your own community, is wrong. But, what would be your answer if you were in their situation? I'm not claiming to have an answer myself, but at times like these morality and sense go out of the window. It's not just a black thing, or an American thing either. Don't really understand the point that website is trying to make? All races in the US seem to get exceedingly drunk and then be involved in these sports team riots, although I don't think they should be compared to what's happening in Baltimore as that's being base on perceived social injustice. Are people that insular they don't know one is happening but the other is? What the solution is to the situation? I don't know either but it certainly isn't burning down your own City, robbing your own people's business and then attacking people based on skin colour, as has been stated as well, this person was arrested by officer of different races but the media have built all this up so much now every time a black person dies in custody it's assumed it's been done by an evil racist white copper and people like ozleicester are actually happy to encourage those sort of rumours as it suits his political position - the solution of course long term is in some way building better relationships between the police and the communities and restoring trust, doing that though is going to be hard and every time a riot like this occurs the chances of that happening diminish. OzLeicesters post is dangerous and divisive and any sort of tolerance of the sort of behaviour we are seeing can only make things worse and cause more division between people and that's why it has to be challenged.
Guest MattP Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 whats the alternative? Courses of action that were taken by people like Rosa Parks and Dr King.
Harry - LCFC Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Its been doing the rounds on social media and attributed to MLK, im not sure if its his quote etc, but i think its very relevant... "Riot is the language of the unheard" I don't think you can argue that's the case here. The voice against police behaviour has been loud in the last year - both in the media and amongst individual people.
David Guiza Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Don't really understand the point that website is trying to make? All races in the US seem to get exceedingly drunk and then be involved in these sports team riots, although I don't think they should be compared to what's happening in Baltimore as that's being base on perceived social injustice. Are people that insular they don't know one is happening but the other is? What the solution is to the situation? I don't know either but it certainly isn't burning down your own City, robbing your own people's business and then attacking people based on skin colour, as has been stated as well, this person was arrested by officer of different races but the media have built all this up so much now every time a black person dies in custody it's assumed it's been done by an evil racist white copper and people like ozleicester are actually happy to encourage those sort of rumours as it suits his political position - the solution of course long term is in some way building better relationships between the police and the communities and restoring trust, doing that though is going to be hard and every time a riot like this occurs the chances of that happening diminish. OzLeicesters post is dangerous and divisive and any sort of tolerance of the sort of behaviour we are seeing can only make things worse and cause more division between people and that's why it has to be challenged. Of course, there is absolutley no comparison between the motive behind the two. There does seem to be plenty out there who will justify the trashing of the city in the name of a 10 game win streak for the Yankees, but not as a protest against injustice. I personally agree with you, in that the riots are barbaric and do more harm than good in almost every sense. But, what the riots have done is brought light to the situation, given a name to those who have been dealt a rough hand by those who are supposed to be there to protect. Without meaning to sound like Maude Flanders, I can't help but think of the children in times like these, growing up and seeing their community and home vandalised by the locals, and being violenty withstrained by another race (I'm not suggesting that it's a racial attack, just stating the basic facts). These children will likely grow up being told by their elders that this is life for an African American in that environment, and then the problem just circulates, year after year, generation after generation. I wouldn't suggest for one second that nothing has changed in the 60 years since the Rosa Parks incident, but clearly not enough.
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