Guest Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Looks pretty horrific. Some horrid racial overtones to it as well, the scenes outside the baseball stadium of the Orioles were terrible, saw one video where anyone and anyone who was white was being punched, kicked and beaten by a mob, even one girl in a wheelchair in the middle of it ffs. Fair play for the community leaders last night trying to stop the people but it seems it fell on deaf ears. Shame on the BBC as well for describing these things as protests last night on the news, looting, arson and violence is not protest. Equal ops in action. Hope the disabled are not complaining.
Carl the Llama Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 I don't think you can argue that's the case here. The voice against police behaviour has been loud in the last year - both in the media and amongst individual people. And yet the frequency with which blacks are being killed by police hasn't seemed to slow down at all. In the face of such abject hopelessness where no amount of public attention seems to remedy the issue, what would you do?
Harry - LCFC Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 And yet the frequency with which blacks are being killed by police hasn't seemed to slow down at all. In the face of such abject hopelessness where no amount of public attention seems to remedy the issue, what would you do? The national outcry has been going for less than a year. It's been brought to the public eye and you'll now here people considering the need for change e.g. cameras for all officers. I know it's not a very satisfactory response but change will take time. Acts of violence do little to garner respect for one's message.
Guest MattP Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Of course, there is absolutley no comparison between the motive behind the two. There does seem to be plenty out there who will justify the trashing of the city in the name of a 10 game win streak for the Yankees, but not as a protest against injustice. I personally agree with you, in that the riots are barbaric and do more harm than good in almost every sense. But, what the riots have done is brought light to the situation, given a name to those who have been dealt a rough hand by those who are supposed to be there to protect. Without meaning to sound like Maude Flanders, I can't help but think of the children in times like these, growing up and seeing their community and home vandalised by the locals, and being violenty withstrained by another race (I'm not suggesting that it's a racial attack, just stating the basic facts). These children will likely grow up being told by their elders that this is life for an African American in that environment, and then the problem just circulates, year after year, generation after generation. I wouldn't suggest for one second that nothing has changed in the 60 years since the Rosa Parks incident, but clearly not enough. It reminds me of that scene in The Wire where Bunk looks at a young kid pretending to be Omar playing games, the dejection in his face when he realises that whatever he does the next generation and the next is just going to be the same. Conditions have no doubt improved for black people in the US, far more are going to college, most players in the NFL are black, the president of the country is mixed race, these things to me seem to revolve around poverty far more than race, it's just the race element that manages to be the spark that sends this off. While the division is still pushed by everyone from racists on the right to people who try to tolerate behaviour like this on the left I don't see anything changing, it's a nation obsessed with colour anyway, when you wath the news over there they can barely report a story without the colour of skin and social impact of 'communities' being debated, until they can get past that it won't move on. One thing that won't help is what's happening in Baltimore now, it reinforces stereotypes people are change. And yet the frequency with which blacks are being killed by police hasn't seemed to slow down at all. In the face of such abject hopelessness where no amount of public attention seems to remedy the issue, what would you do? Didn't someone post a link to the facts last month showing that proportionately to people arrested far more whites than blacks are dying in police custody? No one is going to bother rioting though for a white guy killed in police custody.
Carl the Llama Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Didn't someone post a link to the facts last month showing that proportionately to people arrested far more whites than blacks are dying in police custody? No one is going to bother rioting though for a white guy killed in police custody. Really, where? If true it confirms the need for reform in the USA's police forces - the amount of black people being killed by police reported in the news is alarmingly high, so if even more of them are happening unreported to white people then their death figures must be truly, truly shocking.
MPH Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Shameful situation where this has been doing the rounds on social media, people keeping the story alive and a part explanation as to why the riots happen in my opinion. People BLAMING the victim... is it racist?... quite probably is it about blaming the poor? .. almost definitely. If my brother..cousin, relative... had been tortured and murdered by the police and no-one was charged, and i see this happen day after day. Im pretty sure i would be angry, and looking for a way to let people know of my anger. Telling the police... clearly not going to work. Telling local representatives... hasnt worrked previously. Tell the media ... not interested. Burn down the city... people listen. I think id do it. Yeah.... Target and trash innocent people's businesses... That's totally fair and justified.... And as for the relative point... This poor guys family have repeatedly spoken out against violent protests and looting. They are clearly aware that it will provide no answers and will achieve nothing...
MPH Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 A police source is now claiming that he died from a bolt injury to the head and that an inprint of that bolt matches a bolt inside the police van. Not sure how that goes up with the earlier claims that he died from a spinal injury..... and i really dont get how you can die from hitting your head against a bolt but anyway... First GUESS would be that it was the spinal injury that killed him not a head injury...
Darkon84 Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 From the video of the arrest, there isn't any sign of brutality or knees in the head etc. 2 police officers (bicycle mounted) at the scene, one crouching next to him, the other on his legs, with the guys arms behind his back. They look pretty calm and certainly don't appear to be roughing him up in any way. There is talk that he was tazered in order to get to this point, but it's not shown on the video. A 3rd officer arrives with the van and he's moved in to the back of it. Now I'm not saying that there can't have been rougher tactics previously or inside the van, who knows? No one her knows, that's for sure, but from the video, it seems pretty routine.
Guest MattP Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 From the video of the arrest, there isn't any sign of brutality or knees in the head etc. 2 police officers (bicycle mounted) at the scene, one crouching next to him, the other on his legs, with the guys arms behind his back. They look pretty calm and certainly don't appear to be roughing him up in any way. There is talk that he was tazered in order to get to this point, but it's not shown on the video. A 3rd officer arrives with the van and he's moved in to the back of it. Now I'm not saying that there can't have been rougher tactics previously or inside the van, who knows? No one her knows, that's for sure, but from the video, it seems pretty routine. He was black and died at the hands of the PO-LICE. Therefore it's clearly racist and it's time to burn the town down to make sure we get the point across.
Darkon84 Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 He was black and died at the hands of the PO-LICE. Therefore it's clearly racist and it's time to burn the town down to make sure we get the point across. How logical.
David Guiza Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Ruled as homicide, criminal charges to be pressed. Those involved deserve everything they get, and not just because it's an extreme example regarding race, but because it's attrocious.
Buce Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Of course, there is absolutley no comparison between the motive behind the two. There does seem to be plenty out there who will justify the trashing of the city in the name of a 10 game win streak for the Yankees, but not as a protest against injustice. I personally agree with you, in that the riots are barbaric and do more harm than good in almost every sense. But, what the riots have done is brought light to the situation, given a name to those who have been dealt a rough hand by those who are supposed to be there to protect. Without meaning to sound like Maude Flanders,I can't help but think of the children in times like these, growing up and seeing their community and home vandalised by the locals, and being violenty withstrained by another race (I'm not suggesting that it's a racial attack, just stating the basic facts). These children will likely grow up being told by their elders that this is life for an African American in that environment, and then the problem just circulates, year after year, generation after generation. I wouldn't suggest for one second that nothing has changed in the 60 years since the Rosa Parks incident, but clearly not enough. Helen Lovejoy?
David Guiza Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Helen Lovejoy? I've let myself down on Simpsons knowledge there, it was repeated for the umpteenth time the other night as well. You're right!
ozleicester Posted 1 May 2015 Author Posted 1 May 2015 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0 She said that the knife the police say Mr. Gray was carrying was not a cause for arrest. “The knife was not a switch-bladed and it is lawful.
Guest MattP Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Great read in the Times if anyone has it from Justin Webb about how black America is basically in a cycle of tragedy that has no end and that if this can be at it's worst when a black president is in charge then there is little hope for the future. According to it Obama now has a lower approval rating amongst the black community than any president since Reagan, something astounding given he had the highest of all time on arrival to office, lot of blacks now see him as nothing more than an Uncle Tom. The biggest difference with this to anywhere else is it's Baltimore - there is no 'white oppressor' in Baltimore as there are in the vast majority of American cities, everything from the local senate, to the police force to the powerful business figures are overwhelmingly black yet the problem is still there and not going away.
Guest Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Great read in the Times if anyone has it from Justin Webb about how black America is basically in a cycle of tragedy that has no end and that if this can be at it's worst when a black president is in charge then there is little hope for the future. According to it Obama now has a lower approval rating amongst the black community than any president since Reagan, something astounding given he had the highest of all time on arrival to office, lot of blacks now see him as nothing more than an Uncle Tom. The biggest difference with this to anywhere else is it's Baltimore - there is no 'white oppressor' in Baltimore as there are in the vast majority of American cities, everything from the local senate, to the police force to the powerful business figures are overwhelmingly black yet the problem is still there and not going away. What are you trying to say?
Guest MattP Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 What are you trying to say? Nothing, just quoting some stuff from what I thought was a very interesting article from a writing based in Baltimore.
Guest Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Nothing, just quoting some stuff from what I thought was a very interesting article from a writing based in Baltimore. Okay. What did you take from it?
Guest MattP Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Okay. What did you take from it? See the first four words from my post - 'Great read in the Times'.
MPH Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 See the first four words from my post - 'Great read in the Times'. I don't mean to be a boblet but thats 5 words....
ADK Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Don't think anyone's suggested it's good what people are doing regards rioting, just that they can understand why people are doing it. Personally I think the authorities have reacted fairly proportionately to the various incidents in the USA over the past year. Considering there is racism on both sides and it's a culture overloaded with firearms, I'm pleased there hasn't been more of a bloodbath. I'm not sure how relevant the actual police case is to the situation. Sometimes the police get it wrong no matter how hard you might try to prevent it. If you look in London, nobody rioted after John Charles De Menezes was effectively executed without warning while trying to commute to work. Yet after a career criminal is shot while on the way to commit a crime and carrying a firearm, we get the London riots.
Buce Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 I've let myself down on Simpsons knowledge there, it was repeated for the umpteenth time the other night as well. You're right! What can I say - I'm a Simpsons nerd. The embarrassment is all mine.
MPH Posted 1 May 2015 Posted 1 May 2015 Teenage boy got caught rioting by his mum . She gave him a bit og a whoopin for it too. Warning. colourful language. https://youtu.be/VRlmCf1Kj2o
Merging Cultures Posted 2 May 2015 Posted 2 May 2015 Great read in the Times if anyone has it from Justin Webb about how black America is basically in a cycle of tragedy that has no end and that if this can be at it's worst when a black president is in charge then there is little hope for the future. According to it Obama now has a lower approval rating amongst the black community than any president since Reagan, something astounding given he had the highest of all time on arrival to office, lot of blacks now see him as nothing more than an Uncle Tom. The biggest difference with this to anywhere else is it's Baltimore - there is no 'white oppressor' in Baltimore as there are in the vast majority of American cities, everything from the local senate, to the police force to the powerful business figures are overwhelmingly black yet the problem is still there and not going away. Baltimore is highly segregated, between Baltimore City (low income Blacks) and Baltimore County (higher income Whites). The City used to have a million people and has declined to about 600,000. The tax base is limited to a relatively few higher earners still in the City. The huge need for social services, the high taxes on the earners creates tension between the haves and have-nots. Which is also delineated on racial lines. The City workers and service providers might be predominantly Black, but they also stereotype. As was the case with Freddy Grey, running away from the police in a high crime, largely poor and therefore more likely to be a Black neighbourhood means you are instantly a suspect. Having been stereotyped and vilified for generations, it is easy to see why tensions spill over in to inappropriate actions. The oppressor is poverty, which disproportionately affects Blacks, often due to historical socioeconomic reasons. In Baltimore, this is interpreted into institutional racism from organisations like the police.
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