The Politics Thread

[Guest MattP]

Where is the Labour party protest this weekend? Can't find it.

[Rincewind]

We all will Matt, for various reasons that we've discussed on here before.

 

But the idea of the "real world" is entirely subjective.

Very true. For instance I do not think that somebody living in a 5 million mansion with a dozen bedrooms can know what it is like to live in a pokey one room flat in a high rise block of flats in Manchester unless they have experienced it. Their real world is different because of their life style and the unlikelihood of their world merging with those living in a  flat. The same can  be said at the other end. Plebs do not know how difficult it is to organise dinner parties and choose between the £500 white or £600 red wine to go with the 5 course dinner.

[sphericalfox]

To accuse Claridge if trolling is stupid, he's made coherent arguments on this board.

[MooseBreath]

Really?

He is typical of the masses who have bought into the crude, Goebells-style propaganda employed by this government. Just look at the rhetoric: 'hard-working people'; 'benefit scroungers'; 'scumbags'..

I'll be slated (again) for saying so, but, yes - he really is that stupid. Unfortunately, he is one of many.

Describing the notion of hard working people as "Goebells-style propaganda"

Alien as the concept may seem to you, a lot of us do actually work quite hard and although we are supportive of disadvantaged people being assisted through our taxes we do resent the fact that a lot of people live on hand outs when they're perfectly capable and I would say morally obliged to work for their own living. We also resent tax evaders. It's not an either or scenario.

Call Claridge all the names under the sun (and that does seem to be your mission lately) but this government with its nazi propaganda was democratically elected. People don't agree with you, they agree with the Conservatives. Get used to it.

[Rincewind]

Are the  remaining doctors and nurses supposed to cover for a seven day week opening?

 

More NHS job losses to come this winter. Not a good time as they will be at their busiest.

[Carl the Llama]

 

 

Oh hey, there have been a few posts made since my last brilliant witticism, let's see what they say...

 

Hmm that one directly responds to my post with valid points... better ignore that.

 

No, that post's got too much reasoning and demonstration of a clear thought process in coming to conclusions that contradict my own... better ignore that too.

 

Here we are!  A post with a throwaway insult in it!  Perfect!  I can focus on that one word and use the faux indignation to divert from the conversation!

 

You've done it again MattP, pat yourself on the back.  Thanks MattP I just did. 

[The Doctor]

Describing the notion of hard working people as "Goebells-style propaganda"

Alien as the concept may seem to you, a lot of us do actually work quite hard and although we are supportive of disadvantaged people being assisted through our taxes we do resent the fact that a lot of people live on hand outs when they're perfectly capable and I would say morally obliged to work for their own living. We also resent tax evaders. It's not an either or scenario.

Call Claridge all the names under the sun (and that does seem to be your mission lately) but this government with its nazi propaganda was democratically elected. People don't agree with you, they agree with the Conservatives. Get used to it.

 

Given most benefit recipients are low paid working people, that complaint is entirely nonsensical.

[Rincewind]

I usually get pulled up on one typo. I normally concede and admit it was stupid of me to type 100 words and not check every one for an error.

[MooseBreath]

Given most benefit recipients are low paid working people, that complaint is entirely nonsensical.

Those people should work more hours and work towards higher paid employment like the rest of us. If you're claiming benefits then you're not earning your own living so the statement you've highlighted still applies. The only exception would be child related benefits which are paid regardless of income. They should be stopped entirely, of course.

[Guest MattP]

Wtf has happened here?

[Guest MattP]

Tory scum

[Buce]

this government with its nazi propaganda was democratically elected. People don't agree with you, they agree with the Conservatives. Get used to it.

36% of 61% of the electorate agree with the Tories. My maths is crap, but what's that - 1 in 5? Not my idea of democracy.

Neither do they all agree - the Tories are just better at telling the dumb fvcks what to think.

[Rincewind]

Given most benefit recipients are low paid working people, that complaint is entirely nonsensical.

I think he means people  like this bloke.

 

OP TORY DONOR ACCUSED OF MONEY LAUNDERING IN THE UK!⭕

⭕ Subaskaran Allirajah founder of Lycamobile, has been one of the Conservatives biggest donors, his company has donated more than £1.3 million to the Conservative party since David Cameron came to power, including over £500,000 in this year alone, despite avoiding paying any corporation tax for years by moving revenue out of the UK through a complex offshore corporate network.

⭕ A five-month investigation by BuzzFeed News has revealed that the Lyca telecoms group deploys three men to drive around in an unmarked people carrier depositing bags of money, which have totalled up to £1 million each week. Legal and financial experts said the “deeply suspicious” cash deposits should be urgently investigated

⭕ The evidence of Lyca’s unorthodox Post Office deposits comes in the wake of criticism from its new auditor, KPMG, which unearthed almost £46 million of previously undeclared revenue earlier this year and said the company had failed to properly explain the gap in its finances so it had been impossible to tell whether“adequate accounting records” had been kept.

⭕ Internal Tory emails show that the party accepted a large donation from the telecoms giant just days after the party’s compliance department raised concerns about its chaotic accounting in 2012. The gift bought the company’s Sri Lankan-born owner, Subaskaran Allirajah, a place in David Cameron’s private dining club for top donors, and the emails show he promised to advise the party on business and help deliver British Asian votes.

⭕ Authorities in Sri Lanka are launching an investigation into a key offshore company in the Lyca empire as part of an international probe into allegations of corruption by the country’s despotic former president Mahinda Rajapaksa.

Read more @

http://www.buzzfeed.com/…/this-tory-donor-was-secretly-film…

[Guest MattP]

Labour down to 33% in Wales.

Galloway in, Tory Corbyn out.

[The Doctor]

Those people should work more hours and work towards higher paid employment like the rest of us. If you're claiming benefits then you're not earning your own living so the statement you've highlighted still applies. The only exception would be child related benefits which are paid regardless of income. They should be stopped entirely, of course.

 

Except their low paid labour is necessary to society - roads don't build themselves, public services like libraries don't run themselves, public toilets... don't get cleaned at all actually, forget that one, and they're not all part-timers, there's a lot out there on 40 hours a week stuck in low paid blue collar jobs and relying on income support to make ends meet; the problem is not that they're not working hard enough, the problem is that wages are shockingly poor and haven't kept up with the rise in the cost of living. 

[MooseBreath]

36% of 61% of the electorate agree with the Tories. My maths is crap, but what's that - 1 in 5? Not my idea of democracy.

Neither do they all agree - the Tories are just better at telling the dumb fvcks what to think.

You're right, your maths is crap. As is your idea of democracy. The Conservatives were democratically elected. My advice: face up to the fact that yours is a minority opinion in England in 2015.

[MooseBreath]

Except their low paid labour is necessary to society - roads don't build themselves, public services like libraries don't run themselves, public toilets... don't get cleaned at all actually, forget that one, and they're not all part-timers, there's a lot out there on 40 hours a week stuck in low paid blue collar jobs and relying on income support to make ends meet; the problem is not that they're not working hard enough, the problem is that wages are shockingly poor and haven't kept up with the rise in the cost of living.

I was discussing this with Alf a few pages back, where I was using an online government benefits calculator to find out how much someone who was on minimum wage could claim. The answer was nothing. So these people working 40hrs on minimum wage that you say receive more in hand outs don't exist. They just don't exist. The only exception is child related benefits. If you can't afford kids, don't have kids until you can.

Decent road building labourers can get paid by the bucket and that requires no brains at all. Off point, but it was an interesting choice of example.

[Buce]

You're right, your maths is crap. As is your idea of democracy. The Conservatives were democratically elected. My advice: face up to the fact that yours is a minority opinion in England in 2015.

You do the maths for us, then: what percentage of the electorate voted for a Tory government?

[Guest MattP]

Far more than anyone else Buce.

[Claridge]

Really?

He is typical of the masses who have bought into the crude, Goebells-style propaganda employed by this government. Just look at the rhetoric: 'hard-working people'; 'benefit scroungers'; 'scumbags'..

I'll be slated (again) for saying so, but, yes - he really is that stupid. Unfortunately, he is one of many.

Sorry Bucie forgot no one can disagree with you.

[Buce]

Far more than anyone else Buce.

I thought you were an accountant?

[The Doctor]

36% of 61% of the electorate agree with the Tories. My maths is crap, but what's that - 1 in 5? Not my idea of democracy.

Neither do they all agree - the Tories are just better at telling the dumb fvcks what to think.

 

21.96% of the total eligible voting population, so just over 1 in 5.

 

 

I was discussing this with Alf a few pages back, where I was using an online government benefits calculator to find out how much someone who was on minimum wage could claim. The answer was nothing. So these people working 40hrs on minimum wage that you say receive more in hand outs don't exist. They just don't exist. The only exception is child related benefits. If you can't afford kids, don't have kids until you can.

Decent road building labourers can get paid by the bucket and that requires no brains at all. Off point, but it was an interesting choice of example.

 

You realise of course that tax credits come under benefits and those on minimum wage working 40 hours a week qualify for those?

[Claridge]

 

 

Let me get this straight.  Benefits claimants who have had their benefits refused, often unfairly, would be more dangerous to the poor of this country were they to keep receiving the help for their disability or difficulty in finding work which makes up a small percentage of welfare spending (let's go after the real drain on public finances and start attacking pensions!) than a bunch of bankers playing fast and loose with billions in mislabelled bundles of debt, leading to a crash in the economy and a massive drop in jobs which can only be addressed by rejigging the labour market entirely to create new types of contract which help employment figures but not so much family incomes.  

 

Just making sure I've understood your point.

 

No problem with claimants that are entitled to their benefits, but burying your head in the sand about the large amount of people who don't desrve them, helps no one.

[The Doctor]

No problem with claimants that are entitled to their benefits, but burying your head in the sand about the large amount of people who don't desrve them, helps no one.

 

0.7% of claimants are fraudulent, out of a population of 1.85m unemployed I make that 129,500 people (0.002% of the UK population). It's hardly a large amount, enough to fill Old Trafford and Ashburton Grove with seats to spare.

[Buce]

Sorry Bucie forgot no one can disagree with you.

You're more than welcome to, Claridge.

I don't actually bear you any ill will. There are two types of Tories: those that vote because they are too dumb to see through the lies and propaganda, and those who vote through sociopathic self-interest. You are just one of the former, a turkey voting for Xmas, and I sincerely hope you never find yourself too unwell to support yourself.