The Politics Thread

[MooseBreath]

But David Cameron and George Osborne aren't?

It's their job to know what is really going on. They have a lot of dedicated resources helping them. Cameron isn't making decisions on his own, a lot of the time he is merely a front for other people's decisions.

[MooseBreath]

Yep.

That's the difference between you and the likes of Claridge; he is just misguided, whereas you are a sociopath.

But I'm not a sociopath, at all. I'm not sure you know what a sociopath is because it seems to me independent from political leanings. For sure you can have sociopathic socialists.

[Strokes]

Like paying bills and that?

Sky bills, internet bills and mobile phone bills. Yeah.

[Guest MattP]

Just seen that deleted tweet from a Labour MP regarding Jeremy Hunts wife, really is quite disturbing how much casual racism the party seems to feel fine to spout at the minute.

[Guest MattP]

Regarding Ken's latest out of date link, does anyone else have a good chuckle when reading the Mirror?

I know it's the most biased paper of the lot but they can't get through a political story without mentioning something like Tory Toffs, Posh Boys, Bullingdon Boris etc numerous times I'm it.

It really is pathetic.

[Voll Blau]

Sky bills, internet bills and mobile phone bills. Yeah.

 

Cool. Guess that's info you get from speaking to folks at your local food bank yeah?

 

I'm not saying there aren't people that abuse food banks, I'm sure there probably are, but it's a bit crass to call out everyone who uses them like that.

[Strokes]

Cool. Guess that's info you get from speaking to folks at your local food bank yeah?

I'm not saying there aren't people that abuse food banks, I'm sure there probably are, but it's a bit crass to call out everyone who uses them like that.

Not really, I live on a council estate, I have welfare dependants all around. I use my eyes and ears. I'm adamant, if they didn't exist, nobody would starve. Just a few of lifes luxuries would have to go.

[Carl the Llama]

Even if the fraud methodology is sound and we assume that the fraud assessors are considerably more competent at detecting things like lack of effort in job applications than the job centre staff, then it still doesn't justify the wider problem that benefits are excessive in this country, and serve only as a disincentive to professional growth, holding people down, and trapping them in low incomes.

So a guy having difficulty finding work is more likely to have a job offered to him if he's not receiving the benefits money he receives while he's looking for work?

 

Better trapped on no income than low income am I right?  (See bottom of page for answers.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

No.  Of course it isn't.  That's really fvcking stupid.

 

I SAID I'D STAY AWAY FROM THIS PIT OF INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY.  CURSES ON YOU MOOSE.

[Voll Blau]

Not really, I live on a council estate, I have welfare dependants all around. I use my eyes and ears. I'm adamant, if they didn't exist, nobody would starve. Just a few of lifes luxuries would have to go.

 

And I'm pretty sure that the majority of the million plus who made use of them in the last financial year aren't going through the indignity of taking food from them just so they can keep Sky Movies. If you're so sure people are playing the system, why don't you grass them up to the people providing the service?

[MooseBreath]

So a guy having difficulty finding work is more likely to have a job offered to him if he's not receiving the benefits money he receives while he's looking for work?

Better trapped on no income than low income am I right? (See bottom of page for answers.)

No. Of course it isn't. That's really fvcking stupid.

I SAID I'D STAY AWAY FROM THIS PIT OF INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY. CURSES ON YOU MOOSE.

An unskilled guy having difficulty finding a low paid job is going to struggle to find the motivation to work harder at finding a job while he is given enough money to comfortably live on. Why would he want to find a job when he can spend all day in the pub and be just as well off?

You can't complain about intellectual dishonestly and then imply into your comments that every single person receiving benefits really can't stand it and would much rather work a lot harder for the same money. Well you can, but that would be hypocritical.

[MooseBreath]

And I'm pretty sure that the majority of the million plus who made use of them in the last financial year aren't going through the indignity of taking food from them just so they can keep Sky Movies. If you're so sure people are playing the system, why don't you grass them up to the people providing the service?

Blank post, see two posts down

[Rincewind]

As anyone that  has  used or works at foodbanks know, there is a limit to how many times a person can use one. They also  have to be referred and have it authorized by the jobcentre a social worker or a doctor.This information is available on the internet to all  regardless of political standing.

 

In other recent news verified by FOI requests 

 

http://streetskitchen.co.uk/?p=3375

[MooseBreath]

And I'm pretty sure that the majority of the million plus who made use of them in the last financial year aren't going through the indignity of taking food from them just so they can keep Sky Movies. If you're so sure people are playing the system, why don't you grass them up to the people providing the service?

I just bought lunch from the discount section in asda. Is that all I can afford? No. So why did I do it? Because I like cheap shit. And you know what's better than cheap shit? Free shit. Ain't nobody cares about indignity when shit is cheap or free. Have you not seen black Friday fights on YouTube? People use foodbanks because they exist. They exist because the trussel Trust was set up by a pair of tories who are making sick money out of it. Real world.

[Rincewind]

And I'm pretty sure that the majority of the million plus who made use of them in the last financial year aren't going through the indignity of taking food from them just so they can keep Sky Movies. If you're so sure people are playing the system, why don't you grass them up to the people providing the service?

I used to work with people that said things like 'There are thousands of immigrants  working illegally. We all know x factory employs them. I replied if they are legal report them. They are liable to a few thousand quid fine and could force them to go bankrupt but I expect they'll consider it worth it to save a few quid on paying legal workers.

[Strokes]

And I'm pretty sure that the majority of the million plus who made use of them in the last financial year aren't going through the indignity of taking food from them just so they can keep Sky Movies. If you're so sure people are playing the system, why don't you grass them up to the people providing the service?

I have better things to do with my time than needlessly upsetting good people, I don't blame them for it, I'd do the same in a similar scenario.

[Carl the Llama]

An unskilled guy having difficulty finding a low paid job is going to struggle to find the motivation to work harder at finding a job while he is given enough money to comfortably live on. Why would he want to find a job when he can spend all day in the pub and be just as well off?

You can't complain about intellectual dishonestly and then imply into your comments that every single person receiving benefits really can't stand it and would much rather work a lot harder for the same money. Well you can, but that would be hypocritical.

Go find me proof of your theoretical assertions and I'll give it the time of day.

 

Fact of the matter is, lots of people applying for one low-skilled job often leaves the unskilled searching for months at a time to find a new position.

 

But just because you saw a few baseball-cap wearing yobbos stone-islanded to the 9's drinking in the middle of the day, it does not mean that people on job-seekers aren't seeking jobs.

[MooseBreath]

Go find me proof of your theoretical assertions and I'll give it the time of day.

Fact of the matter is, lots of people applying for one low-skilled job often leaves the unskilled searching for months at a time to find a new position.

But just because you saw a few baseball-cap wearing yobbos stone-islanded to the 9's drinking in the middle of the day, it does not mean that people on job-seekers aren't seeking jobs.

Go find me proof of your theoretical assertions and I'll give it the time of day.

To be honest it speaks volumes when the likes of Strokes who has said he lives on a council estate condemn the hand out takers, he is a lot closer to the action than any champagne socialist has ever been and it definitely matches with my experience of being around chavs. For some champagne socialists it's as if simply being poor guarantees that you're a perfectly moral person (that's a guilt complex at work by the way) but in reality a lot of the poor are poor because they've never been arsed to do anything about it.

[Voll Blau]

I have better things to do with my time than needlessly upsetting good people, I don't blame them for it, I'd do the same in a similar scenario.

 

How are they good people if they're defrauding charities?

[Carl the Llama]

Go find me proof of your theoretical assertions and I'll give it the time of day.

To be honest it speaks volumes when the likes of Strokes who has said he lives on a council estate condemn the hand out takers, he is a lot closer to the action than any champagne socialist has ever been.

You want proof that low-skilled roles get lots of applications and therfore many of those applicants don't get the job?  If that's not a fait accompli I don't know what is.  It's surprisingly hard to find any official figures on this, the govt reports I've found all focus on employment levels but I can't find any which scrutinise the rather important stat of labour offered per job offered in low-skilled roles.  I have found this report which puts the number at 60 applicants on average.

[Rincewind]

There was   one where  there were  8 vacancies at a coffee shop nearly 1000 applied. That may not be as recent as yesterday so sorry for that.

 

Just a couple of examples by googling  1000 aqpply for 8 jobs

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2962396/1-000-apply-Antarctic-job-running-southerly-post-office.html

 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/1000-people-apply-100-jobs-9661675

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/more-than-1700-people-apply-for-just-eight-jobs-at-costa-coffee-shop-8501329.html

 

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/1-000-people-apply-25-jobs-new-Plymouth/story-26532370-detail/story.html

 

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/1-000-people-apply-just-30-jobs-Grimsby-Holiday/story-26229243-detail/story.html

 

 

 

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/1-000-people-apply-just-14-jobs-Siemens-8217-new/story-25827476-detail/story.html

[MooseBreath]

You want proof that low-skilled roles get lots of applications and therfore many of those applicants don't get the job? If that's not a fait accompli I don't know what is. It's surprisingly hard to find any official figures on this, the govt reports I've found all focus on employment levels but I can't find any which scrutinise the rather important stat of labour offered per job offered in low-skilled roles. I have found this report which puts the number at 60 applicants on average.

60 applicants for a job is fine as long as there are 60 jobs. But I wasn't really asking about that, I was more interested in your statements concerning the attitudes of benefit dwellers. Given you've asked me to provide evidence of something so intangible it's only fair that I pose the same challenge back to you in return. Eventually we might just have to agree that neither of us know much about the attitudes of benefit dwellers and that the only safe conclusion to come to is that where a perfectly capable person is not earning their own living, they're not trying.

[leicsmac]

60 applicants for a job is fine as long as there are 60 jobs. But I wasn't really asking about that, I was more interested in your statements concerning the attitudes of benefit dwellers. Given you've asked me to provide evidence of something so intangible it's only fair that I pose the same challenge back to you in return. Eventually we might just have to agree that neither of us know much about the attitudes of benefit dwellers and that the only safe conclusion to come to is that where a perfectly capable person is not earning their own living, they're not trying.

 

Driven of course by the unshakeable faith that personal responsibility is an absolute and there is no exertion of circumstances that another person or people (or indeed the vagaries of fate) might place upon them that results in events being beyond their control.

[Carl the Llama]

60 applicants for a job is fine as long as there are 60 jobs. But I wasn't really asking about that, I was more interested in your statements concerning the attitudes of benefit dwellers. Given you've asked me to provide evidence of something so intangible it's only fair that I pose the same challenge back to you in return. Eventually we might just have to agree that neither of us know much about the attitudes of benefit dwellers and that the only safe conclusion to come to is that where a perfectly capable person is not earning their own living, they're not trying.

I'm done with this conversation, you really are unbelievably indifferent to human struggle as well as worryingly unversed in statistical interpretation.  You're alright Jack.

[MooseBreath]

I'm done with this conversation, you really are unbelievably indifferent to human struggle as well as worryingly unversed in statistical interpretation. You're alright Jack.

Well you're looking at one job advert and its number of responses in isolation. It's the total number of jobs available against the total number of applicants that you need to look at. Basic stuff. There are good stats on it, they've been posted before and the ratio is nowhere near 1:60.

[Rincewind]

Just a simple question. Not getting at anyone. Would  you if a boss employ someone that had any of these conditions. A  tendency to have mood swings some violent, incontinent,  unable to sit or stand for long periods, needing access alterations for a wheelchair, needing time off for frequent hospital appointments and  no qualifications. Bearing in mind there are 50 other applicants.