The Politics Thread

[bovril]

The Labour party are in the place the Tories were before Cameron.

Hague, IDS, Howard all made a complete balls up of leading the party handing general election victories to Blair (especially the 3rd term).

They'll probably go through another leader or two before someone decent turns up.

Politics is always the same at the end of the day. The tories will eventually start screwing everything up, pissing people off and turning them back to Labour. It always happens and will happen again. It'll probably start when Cameron steps down. Not Osbourne, May or Johnson are anywhere near PM material.

 

Or something more right wing.

[Guest]

We had a conversation in the pub today, does anyone still take the current Labour party seriously?

One guy was adamant he still did but the general consensus was they are now a joke.

I can't take them seriously now. It's an embarrassment of a political party, , I feel sorry fo tthe long term member.

 

Surely the majority of Brits don't take politicians of whatever colour seriously.

[Guest]

See this is what I don't get.  Apart from the entitlement brigade, who are these people that are suddenly going to wake up and realise the current system 'isn't working for them'?  Believe it or not we currently have one of the best standards of living in the world with economic growth accelerating, wages growing and inflation flatlining.  Why would any sane working man or woman vote for Comrade Corbyn exactly?

 

In terms of my own experiences, 'Labour' and 'Corbyn' have now become punchlines quite frankly.

But is your wife happy? 

[Carl the Llama]

The Labour party are in the place the Tories were before Cameron.

Hague, IDS, Howard all made a complete balls up of leading the party handing general election victories to Blair (especially the 3rd term).

They'll probably go through another leader or two before someone decent turns up.

Politics is always the same at the end of the day. The tories will eventually start screwing everything up, pissing people off and turning them back to Labour. It always happens and will happen again. It'll probably start when Cameron steps down. Not Osbourne, May or Johnson are anywhere near PM material.

I can't get my head around the idea that the tories will be even less likeable without Cameron.  If I had any faith at all in the British public to make well-informed decisions for the best of the country instead of being an idiotic nation hypnotised by press-instigated fears then I'd be adamant the last election was a fix.

 

Love you England.

[Guest MattP]

Imagine blaming the intellect of the nation for NOT wanting a Labour-SNP coalition, you can't make this shit up.

[Guest MattP]

Looks like the nonce finder general witch hunt Watson is going to make a public apology tomorrow.

A major political party led by this bloke and Jeremy Corbyn, what on earth is going on?

[Thracian]

So much for democracy. The people vote Conservative by a distance yet all i've heard since is windbagging about Labour and Corbyn.

That Sturgeon woman is no better.

The Scottish people vote for continuing in the Union but she shows no respect for that at all and simply presses on with her own "I know better" routine.

And all promoted by a BBC awash with Lefties who conveniently ignore the fact that Labour have recently had a longer shot at Government than they ever deserved and did their level best to "feck" this country as surely as the rape/abuse gangs they seemingly turned a blind eye to in so many of our towns and cities.

The country needs better than Labour. It may need better than the Conservatives but they've got the mandate and I'd rather focus on what they're doing than here the continual bleating of Lefties determined to continue trying to force their flawed philsophies on those who've so clearly rejected them at the ballot box.     

[Thracian]

Imagine blaming the intellect of the nation for NOT wanting a Labour-SNP coalition, you can't make this shit up.

 

 

But they do! 

[leicsmac]

So much for democracy. The people vote Conservative by a distance yet all i've heard since is windbagging about Labour and Corbyn.

That Sturgeon woman is no better.

The Scottish people vote for continuing in the Union but she shows no respect for that at all and simply presses on with her own "I know better" routine.

And all promoted by a BBC awash with Lefties who conveniently ignore the fact that Labour have recently had a longer shot at Government than they ever deserved and did their level best to "feck" this country as surely as the rape/abuse gangs they seemingly turned a blind eye to in so many of our towns and cities.

The country needs better than Labour. It may need better than the Conservatives but they've got the mandate and I'd rather focus on what they're doing than here the continual bleating of Lefties determined to continue trying to force their flawed philsophies on those who've so clearly rejected them at the ballot box.     

 

Speaking personally, I'd rather hear both sides of the debate. I'm pretty sure the Tories are getting a good lot of their policies publicised, just as Labour are getting their challenges to them also publicised. A mandate to govern doesn't mean that the said Government shouldn't be challenged, as often as is possible. And I'd say exactly the same thing if the positions were reversed. Power corrupts, no matter your ideology.

[Thracian]

Speaking personally, I'd rather hear both sides of the debate. I'm pretty sure the Tories are getting a good lot of their policies publicised, just as Labour are getting their challenges to them also publicised. A mandate to govern doesn't mean that the said Government shouldn't be challenged, as often as is possible. And I'd say exactly the same thing if the positions were reversed. Power corrupts, no matter your ideology.

 

 

Listening to Corbyn policies about what he would or might do in the unlikely lunacy of his ever being elected isn't "challenging" government policy.

Of course policy needs debate and of course that debate should be listened too. Indeed I'd far rather listen to informed debate about our continued membership of the EU than anything Corbyn may or may not do in years to come.

Sadly though, the best start to such a debate would be to shut down the BBC completely and have a genuinely independent and enquiring national broadcaster.

Or any organisation which served to present the facts and arguments rationallly surrounding those facts rather than another largely unveiled Party political diatribe on behalf of the Marxist/Communists of the Labour left.    

[bovril]

Christ did I just read a post claiming that the BBC has a Marxist agenda?

[Guest]

Christ did I just read a post claiming that the BBC has a Marxist agenda?

I believe you did

[leicsmac]

Listening to Corbyn policies about what he would or might do in the unlikely lunacy of his ever being elected isn't "challenging" government policy.

Of course policy needs debate and of course that debate should be listened too. Indeed I'd far rather listen to informed debate about our continued membership of the EU than anything Corbyn may or may not do in years to come.

Sadly though, the best start to such a debate would be to shut down the BBC completely and have a genuinely independent and enquiring national broadcaster.

Or any organisation which served to present the facts and arguments rationallly surrounding those facts rather than another largely unveiled Party political diatribe on behalf of the Marxist/Communists of the Labour left.    

 

In the same way that the Conservatives were elected to govern, Corbyn was elected leader of the opposition, therefore he has as much right as any Labour opposition leader in the past to espouse policy in challenge to the Tories, regardless of how harebrained you think it may be. And while you personally want a debate regarding the EU (and I'm pretty sure you're not alone in that regard), evidently both leading parties don't consider it to be a priority at this point in time (but I expect that to change).

 

As for the BBC, I've heard left-wingers claim its right-wing and right-wingers claim it's left-wing. As always, the truth is somewhere between the two. IMO I think it espouses more left-wing than right wing views, but in doing so it also acts as a bulwark against a large portion of the press media who have a distinctly right-wing slant. All things considered, I think the choice of media sources in the UK is actually pretty balanced. In any case, I'm all for a media outlet not having to be subject to commercial pressure, as such outlets do invariably end up (at least some of the time) pushing a particular slant just to make money (whether through telling their readers/viewers what they want to hear or being involved in political circles themselves) rather than being subjective in their reporting.

[Carl the Llama]

Imagine blaming the intellect of the nation for NOT wanting a Labour-SNP coalition, you can't make this shit up.

Nooo... I'm blaming the intellect of the nation FOR apparently wanting a Tory government that seeks to marginalise and victimise some of the least advantaged members of society, all the while doing nothing to disincentive people from the corporate greed that nearly destroyed the economy, but rather boosting it under the guise of promoting jobs and competition with corporate tax cuts.

[The Doctor]

Christ did I just read a post claiming that the BBC has a Marxist agenda?

 

just be glad he didn't call it the British Bolshevik Co-operative.

[Claridge]

Nooo... I'm blaming the intellect of the nation FOR apparently wanting a Tory government that seeks to marginalise and victimise some of the least advantaged members of society, all the while doing nothing to disincentive people from the corporate greed that nearly destroyed the economy, but rather boosting it under the guise of promoting jobs and competition with corporate tax cuts.

Blimey, didn't realise that was the tory agenda.

Thought they wanted hard working people(the majority) to do well.

I'm sure they spend hundreds of Billions on the less fortunate in society and its the workshy, benefit scroungers who steal off the genuine poor through dodgy claims.

Labour and the left are loath to condemn these masses of scumbags, but go hysterical over a few equally horrible bankers.

[The Doctor]

Blimey, didn't realise that was the tory agenda.

Thought they wanted hard working people(the majority) to do well.

I'm sure they spend hundreds of Billions on the less fortunate in society and its the workshy, benefit scroungers who steal off the genuine poor through dodgy claims.

Labour and the left are loath to condemn these masses of scumbags, but go hysterical over a few equally horrible bankers.

 

Masses? Not a chance kid, less than 1% of welfare is claimed fraudulently. Also, just to establish, anyone under the age of 25 or on minimum wage isn't hard-working then given the changes to tax credits are going to leave hundreds of families a lot worse off?

[Carl the Llama]

 

Blimey, didn't realise that was the tory agenda.

Thought they wanted hard working people(the majority) to do well.

I'm sure they spend hundreds of Billions on the less fortunate in society and its the workshy, benefit scroungers who steal off the genuine poor through dodgy claims.

Labour and the left are loath to condemn these masses of scumbags, but go hysterical over a few equally horrible bankers.

Let me get this straight.  Benefits claimants who have had their benefits refused, often unfairly, would be more dangerous to the poor of this country were they to keep receiving the help for their disability or difficulty in finding work which makes up a small percentage of welfare spending (let's go after the real drain on public finances and start attacking pensions!) than a bunch of bankers playing fast and loose with billions in mislabelled bundles of debt, leading to a crash in the economy and a massive drop in jobs which can only be addressed by rejigging the labour market entirely to create new types of contract which help employment figures but not so much family incomes.  

 

Just making sure I've understood your point.

[purpleronnie]

Pretty sure claridge is trolling, no-one can be that stupid.

[Rincewind]

As others have said benefit fraud is only a small percentage. Also quite a few of those on benefits are WORKING. Benefits are there to prevent people falling through the net. Many have paid into the system. Anyone can have a serious illness, become disabled or have to stay at home as a carer to look after a loved one. What we have now is ILA being taken away which often means has to give up work to look after their partner. People are having mobility cars refused which can be their only means of  getting about.

In our society there will always be those that are unable to work through  illness or disability so is it not right that as a caring nation that we all give a little to help. People do not become disabled or ill by choice.

Cameron said only those in  need should claim. Have a look at what he has claimed in the past and now which comes from the taxpayer. He claimed for a disabled son, child allowance rent on a house he leases out and other stuff. Is he in dire need of help?

Can no-one on here see why people are getting upset? It is not envy but just seeing unfairness and double standards. IDS has a breakfast costing £39 and claims for it. Some people have to live on that for a week.  Then he says Ha ha ha anyone can live on £50 a week.

Have a look at who the donors to the Tory party are I believe one comes from a company that has paid no corporation tax for the past three years or so. The Mail is registered in a Caribbean island so is not liable to our tax laws and does the owner not live  in  France?

Re the BBC. I think they would like to keep the license fee so need to not upset whichever government is in power. They have to seem to be impartial and bias does swing both ways. Channel Four and Five could be more bias with their benefit scroungers programmes.

If the words scroungers and hard working people are used often enough they will be embedded into the public's mind. It is not just a Tory thing Blair used the words too.

Now I may delete this post as it is all bollax in some peoples eyes and they will never give an inch.

 

Is this person one of the loony Corbyn supporting Marxist  lefties for speaking out for her brother after he died shortly after his benefits were stopped? He died in debt. He was passed fit despite his doctor saying he was mentally unable to work. Before his benefits were removed  he was active and occupied himself with painting and helping an elderly relative. After he was withdrawn.

 

As she said the support was  not there and if nothing else the government should review the system used as recommended. They have refused to do this..

 

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/fitness-for-work-test-and-sanctions-helped-kill-my-brother/

[Buce]

Pretty sure claridge is trolling, no-one can be that stupid.

Really?

He is typical of the masses who have bought into the crude, Goebells-style propaganda employed by this government. Just look at the rhetoric: 'hard-working people'; 'benefit scroungers'; 'scumbags'..

I'll be slated (again) for saying so, but, yes - he really is that stupid. Unfortunately, he is one of many.

[Guest MattP]

Brilliant..anyone who is a Tory is trolling again. Back to the Daggers and Nick years.

You lot are a million miles from the real World, good luck; you'll need it.

[leicsmac]

Brilliant..anyone who is a Tory is trolling again. Back to the Daggers and Nick years.

You lot are a million miles from the real World, good luck; you'll need it.

 

We all will Matt, for various reasons that we've discussed on here before.

 

But the idea of the "real world" is entirely subjective.

[The Doctor]

Brilliant..anyone who is a Tory is trolling again. Back to the Daggers and Nick years.

You lot are a million miles from the real World, good luck; you'll need it.

 

Not anyone who's a tory, obviously the likes of webbo and jon the hat are serious and their points well made (even if I disagree with practically all of it), but claridge is either trolling or monumentally stupid.

[Guest MattP]

To accuse Claridge if trolling is stupid, he's made coherent arguments on this board.