Merging Cultures Posted 17 November 2015 Posted 17 November 2015 I thought the right wing admired "black and white", objective figures? They certainly adore Thatcher, for whom the "middle ground" was a sign of the most insipid weakness. I am not "right wing" but I do like black and white objective figures. It is good to hear what politicians really believe. Especially when it is as wrong as not wanting to shoot-to-kill a terrorist who is likely to be putting others at direct risk.
leicsmac Posted 17 November 2015 Posted 17 November 2015 I am not "right wing" but I do like black and white objective figures. It is good to hear what politicians really believe. Especially when it is as wrong as not wanting to shoot-to-kill a terrorist who is likely to be putting others at direct risk. No disagreement there. Having a politician speak their mind rather than use weasel words is a welcome change. It's when that develops into a blatant refusal to compromise that the problems begin.
Guest Posted 17 November 2015 Posted 17 November 2015 No disagreement there. Having a politician speak their mind rather than use weasel words is a welcome change. It's when that develops into a blatant refusal to compromise that the problems begin. Agreed. Sadly our mps are mostly "yes" men who'll change their mind at any opportunity of a popularity swing or answer evasively enough that no-one knows what their beliefs are.
Guest MattP Posted 17 November 2015 Posted 17 November 2015 I was hoping Corbyn could hold it together until the next election, allowing Osborne to easily destroy him on his way to number 10. But it's starting to look like he won't last that long. He might not even last til Christmas. What's the record for the shortest time someone has been leader of a major political party? He's got absolutely no chance of seeing the next election has he? Best we can hope for is Khan somehow wins the London mayoral election and he stays around around 2017. I certainly want to keep him there until the European referendum where we'll have a win-win situation of either coming out the EU or Corbyn driving Labour voters in there droves to UKIP. Labour have no one else of any substance to replace him anyway. They still have a handful that could go close to winning, Hunt, Umanna and Jarvis all spring to mind, you can bet they'll be beaten though by someone like Diane Abbott in 2017 The real long term damage is being done now though, they've already lost the public trust on immigration and the economy for any sort of forseeable future, Corbyn should be able to nail national security as well. Not to mention we now know most normal Labour party members along with the £3rs actually put this guy forward as a potential Prime Minister, the Tories and UKIP will dine out on that for years, it could be critical with a different opposition in the North as well, UKIP aren't as toxic to Northern voters as the Tories are. I thought the right wing admired "black and white", objective figures? They certainly adore Thatcher, for whom the "middle ground" was a sign of the most insipid weakness. I did admire Corbyn for his principled stance on certain things, despite how ridiculous they are. (although according to Cooper he has now changed his mind on this as well on the Daily Politics, we'll just have to hope if a terrorist does attack under him leadership it's on a Tuesday)
Guest MattP Posted 17 November 2015 Posted 17 November 2015 WTF. Ukip are as short as 10/3 to win the Oldham West and Royton by-election. As amusing as I would find it it's as safe a Labour sat as you can get, if you have a spare 5k knocking around that's the easiest grand you'll make.
Guest MattP Posted 17 November 2015 Posted 17 November 2015 About Jeremy Corbyn A good or evil man? A neutral viewpoint if ever I saw one. I don't think anyone would seriously claim Corbyn is evil, although I think he has certainly alligned himself with some evil groups. I think his worse trait is his naviety, some of the things that come out his mouth are astounding for a man of his age in his position.
Alf Bentley Posted 17 November 2015 Posted 17 November 2015 WTF. Ukip are as short as 10/3 to win the Oldham West and Royton by-election. As amusing as I would find it it's as safe a Labour sat as you can get, if you have a spare 5k knocking around that's the easiest grand you'll make. UKIP must stand a chance: - Labour only got about 50% of the vote last time and are shaky on a national level, with a leader who probably won't go down well in a trad Northern heartland seat; - Meacher is bound to have had a personal vote, as a longstanding and likeable MP with a medium-high profile; - There's been a big BNP vote here before (I know that UKIP and BNP are different but there's a big cross-section among potential voters); - Tories finished 3rd behind UKIP last time, but have 10,000 voters, many of whom could vote tactically for UKIP in a byelection Mind you, it sounds like Labour have picked a strong candidate, provided the local council isn't desperately unpopular: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/11/why-labours-oldham-election-candidate-jim-mcmahon-one-watch From truck-driver's son who left school at 16 to council leader, head of Labour's national local govt association and a pending OBE by 35 is an interesting and impressive trajectory. Think I'll predict a narrow Labour hold in a 2-horse race with UKIP after a brutal campaign, with the Tory vote collapsing tactically.....Lab hold by 2000 on a low turnout. Repeat of the Heywood & Middleton byelection, basically.
Guest MattP Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 UKIP must stand a chance: - Labour only got about 50% of the vote last time and are shaky on a national level, with a leader who probably won't go down well in a trad Northern heartland seat; - Meacher is bound to have had a personal vote, as a longstanding and likeable MP with a medium-high profile; - There's been a big BNP vote here before (I know that UKIP and BNP are different but there's a big cross-section among potential voters); - Tories finished 3rd behind UKIP last time, but have 10,000 voters, many of whom could vote tactically for UKIP in a byelection Mind you, it sounds like Labour have picked a strong candidate, provided the local council isn't desperately unpopular: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/11/why-labours-oldham-election-candidate-jim-mcmahon-one-watch From truck-driver's son who left school at 16 to council leader, head of Labour's national local govt association and a pending OBE by 35 is an interesting and impressive trajectory. Think I'll predict a narrow Labour hold in a 2-horse race with UKIP after a brutal campaign, with the Tory vote collapsing tactically.....Lab hold by 2000 on a low turnout. Repeat of the Heywood & Middleton byelection, basically. I'd be absolutely astonished if UKIP got within that amount. About 30% of the seat is Muslim and that will be a block Labour vote, UKIP will take a lot of the "anti Corbyn" vote from Labour but nowhere enough to challenge for the actual seat, I still think we will be talking a Labour victory of 7,000-8,000 even on a lower turnout. If it is down to the figure you suggest I can see Christmas being very awkward for Corbyn.
Guest Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 WTF. Ukip are as short as 10/3 to win the Oldham West and Royton by-election. As amusing as I would find it it's as safe a Labour sat as you can get, if you have a spare 5k knocking around that's the easiest grand you'll make. isn't 100/30 rather long odds? Doesn't it infer that they won't win? (honest questions)
Guest MattP Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 isn't 100/30 rather long odds? Doesn't it infer that they won't win? (honest questions) It infers they won't win but it's a seat where they would have been 200/1 a year ago. The bookies have gone from giving them a 0.5% chance of winning the seat to a 24% chance.
Guest Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 It infers they won't win but it's a seat where they would have been 200/1 a year ago. The bookies have gone from giving them a 0.5% chance of winning the seat to a 24% chance. k. Thanks;
Bettsj2 Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 Cameron must love PMQ's. Absolutely wiping the floor with Corbyn today.
Guest MattP Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 What's Ken Livingstone gone and said? Loads of Labour MP'S calling for him to be sacked.
Bettsj2 Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 What's Ken Livingstone gone and said? Loads of Labour MP'S calling for him to be sacked. Said someone needs mental help without realising they're a clinical depressive.
Guest MattP Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 Said someone needs mental help without realising they're a clinical depressive. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34853430 They are just doing a segment on the Daily Politics on it now, said that and has refused to apologise now unless he apologies to him first, now he's told him to "get over it" - these are grown men as well As an aside what credentials does Ken Livingstone have to head up the parties review on defence? Anyone know? Seamus Milne, Andrew Fisher, Ken Livingstone - If I didn't know better I'd swear Corbyn is almost trying to incite a leadership contest to get it over with.
Bettsj2 Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34853430 They are just doing a segment on the Daily Politics on it now, said that and has refused to apologise now unless he apologies to him first, now he's told him to "get over it" - these are grown men as well As an aside what credentials does Ken Livingstone have to head up the parties review on defence? Anyone know? Seamus Milne, Andrew Fisher, Ken Livingstone - If I didn't know better I'd swear Corbyn is almost trying to incite a leadership contest to get it over with. I think it's probably been decided that he cant lead long term and all of this is like you say, to spark a leadership contest. Corbyn was like a defeated man at PMQ's.
Darkon84 Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 Good ole' Red Ken How childish can you be? Admit it Ken, you made a mistake, the comments were deeply insensitive considering what Jones is going through currently.
Guest MattP Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 Anyone watching the Daily Politics now? Two Labour MP's just coming out and openly refusing to back Corbyn without a care in the World on TV. Get some shares in Hillary Benn right now, he could be the leader in 18 months.
Darkon84 Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 Anyone watching the Daily Politics now? Two Labour MP's just coming out and openly refusing to back Corbyn without a care in the World on TV. Get some shares in Hillary Benn right now, he could be the leader in 18 months. Just saw that and was thinking the exact same thing, I know where my money would be going! As they said earlier, these kind of things aren't happening in quiet phone calls or dark corners now, it's becoming obvious in public that virtually no-one within the party is supporting him now.
Guest MattP Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 Just saw that and was thinking the exact same thing, I know where my money would be going! As they said earlier, these kind of things aren't happening in quiet phone calls or dark corners now, it's becoming obvious in public that virtually no-one within the party is supporting him now. I think we'll start to see some moves very shortly judging by those interviews, they have always been a bit coy but that was just blatent disrespect and there doesn't seem to be anything taboo about doing it in public now, John Mann had me in stiches when he said he had every confidence in Hillary Benn to completely lead the way for Labour with regards to Syria, National Security and Shoot to Kill He is 16/1 for next leader at Skybet, that's well worth a tenner of anyone's money. He could win a leadership election as well given the warmth the old left and new members would still have for Tony Benn.
Darkon84 Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 I think we'll start to see some moves very shortly judging by those interviews, they have always been a bit coy but that was just blatent disrespect and there doesn't seem to be anything taboo about doing it in public now, John Mann had me in stiches when he said he had every confidence in Hillary Benn to completely lead the way for Labour with regards to Syria, National Security and Shoot to Kill He is 16/1 for next leader at Skybet, that's well worth a tenner of anyone's money. He could win a leadership election as well given the warmth the old left and new members would still have for Tony Benn. That interview just really hammered the point home. I think that was the most open I've seen anyone regarding leadership and confidence etc. The way he kept re-iterating it was fantastic, he just couldn't bring himself to say those little words 'I have faith in Jeremy' I'm getting straight on that, those are some fantastic odds!!
Bettsj2 Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 Never seen anything like it. They really want him gone.
Guest MattP Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 That interview just really hammered the point home. I think that was the most open I've seen anyone regarding leadership and confidence etc. The way he kept re-iterating it was fantastic, he just couldn't bring himself to say those little words 'I have faith in Jeremy' I'm getting straight on that, those are some fantastic odds!! It's a huge price, all the front runners I don't think would want to touch the job yet.The Nonce Finder General might want it but he's surely as toxic and as hopeless as Corbyn is. Corbyn has now demanded Livingstone apologies, this could be interesting. When he spoke about "A new kinder politics" I presume he meant one of the words in German.
Guest Posted 18 November 2015 Posted 18 November 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34853430 They are just doing a segment on the Daily Politics on it now, said that and has refused to apologise now unless he apologies to him first, now he's told him to "get over it" - these are grown men as well As an aside what credentials does Ken Livingstone have to head up the parties review on defence? Anyone know? Seamus Milne, Andrew Fisher, Ken Livingstone - If I didn't know better I'd swear Corbyn is almost trying to incite a leadership contest to get it over with. He's been attacked a lot.
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