Webbo Posted 20 November 2015 Posted 20 November 2015 oh. Thanks for replying to us then. You're not loony, just misguided
Dr The Singh Posted 20 November 2015 Posted 20 November 2015 You're not loony, just misguided That's just great, now FIF is going to leave due to your abuse!!!!
Guest Posted 20 November 2015 Posted 20 November 2015 That's just great, now FIF is going to leave due to your abuse!!!! Do you think you're the only one to like abuse? nah! Webbo is a good guy (for a con).
Dr The Singh Posted 20 November 2015 Posted 20 November 2015 Do you think you're the only one to like abuse? nah! Webbo is a good gay (for a con). So am I
The Horse's Mouth Posted 20 November 2015 Posted 20 November 2015 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mps-block-bill-to-give-first-aid-training-to-children-by-talking-until-time-runs-out-a6742251.html great bunch of lads
Thracian Posted 20 November 2015 Posted 20 November 2015 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mps-block-bill-to-give-first-aid-training-to-children-by-talking-until-time-runs-out-a6742251.html great bunch of lads Nothing new under any administration but the kind of action that brings Parliament into disrepute and makes a mockery of constructive debate. I'd have far rather read proper arguments on the subject. .
Alf Bentley Posted 20 November 2015 Posted 20 November 2015 As if Labour wouldn't be crowing about any kind of new jobs for all that they'd doubtless be in the largely non-productive public sector and being even more enthusiastically filled by imports from abroad. Not that I don't sympathise with your comment because the levels of immigration would drop dramatically if I had my way and every effort would be made to see established British nationals put to work before any prospective new incomers, if at all possible. I'm not sure about the construction industry. It's winter. Building always slows up in winter but there seems to be lots going on evenn now and family members I have in the construction industry's allied trades say business is booming and has rarely been so good with tilers and other housing jobbers actually having to turn down work - and sometimes a lot of it. Again, over-immigration is affecting the housing market, as so many other things because it's creating a false scenario, with unnatural demand and inevitably insufficient supply. Consequently the housing which is available is ridiculously overpriced with my youngest son's only chance of getting a house near London being what amounted to a £250,000 demolition job. It's system overload in every direction but no-one seems willing to close the doors. Even Labour bigwigs said they'd gone too far yet they opened the floodgates with no mandate and in complete defiance of what they knew public opinion would be. As for the nuts and bolts of economic trade, a greater emphasis on service industries as opposed to manufacturing industries was inevitable when so many companies shifted whole industries abroad. And shamelessly, many of those companies were based in Labour heartlands like Stoke-on-Trent with Labour councillors and Labour administrations. Happily some manufacturing is now returning with Portmeirion in particular having reversed the trend in Stoke and the pottery industry. So actuallly, those service and development industries have been a lifeline while others decided the grass was greener elsewhere, and far more valuable than many of the largely unproductive public sector jobs created by Labour. I'll keep the NHS for another day! Suffice to say that bad practice equals ridiculously bad value in any industry. As for equality people aren't equal and never will be. It's that simple. Some people are winners and some aren't. Wherever and whatever you put them into. Vardy's a terrific example. From Stocksbridge Steels to England centre forward in five years or so. No silver spoon, no special leg up. Just hard work, talent, determination to keep improving and self-belief. A lot of arguments based on anecdotes there. All too easy to retort in kind Portmeirion have been creating manufacturing jobs in the Potteries? Well, the steel industry has been losing them in the NE. Vardy didn't need a silver spoon or leg-up to succeed? Well, the Duke of Westminster did. Your construction industry contacts are doing fine? Well, we're still building fewer houses than we were decades ago so that purchase prices and rents are extortionate. Here's a good discussion about the reasons why the demand for housing might not be matched by an increase in supply: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30776306 Here's a graph showing how the supply of new homes has been falling for decades (so it ain't all down to immigration): You mix your anecdotal arguments with statements no reasonable person could disagree with....but that prove nothing. Of course, as a developed capitalist economy, we are bound to shed low-skilled manufacturing jobs and gain service jobs. But there are risks in needing to import most of your goods. It might be inevitable in some sectors, but not others. Germany has retained more manufacturing industry than we have, maybe partly because their authorities and companies think and invest longer-term, have longer-term relationships with their bankers and a harmonious, long-term relationship with unions? Of course, people are more likely to succeed if they have the right attitude. But an awful lot of people also succeed because their parents are able to buy access to the best schools or gain access to the best social contacts. An awful lot of people who might have been "winners" are not winners because they don't have such back-up or, worse still, come from dysfunctional backgrounds. Some people also have no "talent" and are not capable of anything other than unskilled work, however determined they may be, but a developed economy/society can afford to allow them a decent standard of living, too - unless it chooses not to. Social studies suggest that there is now LESS social mobility than there was a few decades ago. Of course, there will never be complete equality, but there can be greater equality than there is - indeed, there is greater equality in most other developed countries. This country makes the active choice to have less equality, which in turn creates costly and/or disfiguring social problems. Maybe that is why the country seemed so much better to you in the 50s and 60s? So, a public sector teacher is less productive than a private sector burger flipper? A public sector clerk is less productive than a public sector clerk? Meh.... I've worked in both public and private sectors and - anecdotally, of course - my experience is that there are impressive, efficient people and systems in both, and useless, lazy gits and inefficient, bureaucratic systems in both. Shame you didn't get on to the NHS (another time!) as I've had a lot of experience dealing with it recently and might agree with your opinions more than you suspect (a crushing and inefficient obsession with systems, procedures and budgets, in my experience.....though the lack of resources doesn't help, I'm sure). Must go and do something productive now - go and collect my daughter's pizza from the efficient private-sector kebab shop!
MooseBreath Posted 20 November 2015 Posted 20 November 2015 It's not just housebuilding but also transport infrastructure has failed to keep up with population growth and increased demand. I was having a conversation at work last week, after another commute that took over an hour for a mere 20 miles, about the last time any of us drove on a new road. None of us could readily remember a new road or even a particularly useful road improvement, but we could all cite examples of where road capacity had actually been decreased to accommodate cyclists and buses and numerous examples of where speed limits have been reduced for some spurious reason like noise reduction. It's staggering to think how much economic development and social gain is just waiting to be unlocked by improving various aspects of infrastructure. Cameron and Osborne have talked good games in that respect but have done practically nothing in reality, carrying on from Labour's record of chronic underinvestment.
Thracian Posted 20 November 2015 Posted 20 November 2015 A lot of arguments based on anecdotes there. All too easy to retort in kind Portmeirion have been creating manufacturing jobs in the Potteries? Well, the steel industry has been losing them in the NE. Vardy didn't need a silver spoon or leg-up to succeed? Well, the Duke of Westminster did. Your construction industry contacts are doing fine? Well, we're still building fewer houses than we were decades ago so that purchase prices and rents are extortionate. Here's a good discussion about the reasons why the demand for housing might not be matched by an increase in supply: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30776306 Here's a graph showing how the supply of new homes has been falling for decades (so it ain't all down to immigration): You mix your anecdotal arguments with statements no reasonable person could disagree with....but that prove nothing. Of course, as a developed capitalist economy, we are bound to shed low-skilled manufacturing jobs and gain service jobs. But there are risks in needing to import most of your goods. It might be inevitable in some sectors, but not others. Germany has retained more manufacturing industry than we have, maybe partly because their authorities and companies think and invest longer-term, have longer-term relationships with their bankers and a harmonious, long-term relationship with unions? Of course, people are more likely to succeed if they have the right attitude. But an awful lot of people also succeed because their parents are able to buy access to the best schools or gain access to the best social contacts. An awful lot of people who might have been "winners" are not winners because they don't have such back-up or, worse still, come from dysfunctional backgrounds. Some people also have no "talent" and are not capable of anything other than unskilled work, however determined they may be, but a developed economy/society can afford to allow them a decent standard of living, too - unless it chooses not to. Social studies suggest that there is now LESS social mobility than there was a few decades ago. Of course, there will never be complete equality, but there can be greater equality than there is - indeed, there is greater equality in most other developed countries. This country makes the active choice to have less equality, which in turn creates costly and/or disfiguring social problems. Maybe that is why the country seemed so much better to you in the 50s and 60s? So, a public sector teacher is less productive than a private sector burger flipper? A public sector clerk is less productive than a public sector clerk? Meh.... I've worked in both public and private sectors and - anecdotally, of course - my experience is that there are impressive, efficient people and systems in both, and useless, lazy gits and inefficient, bureaucratic systems in both. Shame you didn't get on to the NHS (another time!) as I've had a lot of experience dealing with it recently and might agree with your opinions more than you suspect (a crushing and inefficient obsession with systems, procedures and budgets, in my experience.....though the lack of resources doesn't help, I'm sure). Must go and do something productive now - go and collect my daughter's pizza from the efficient private-sector kebab shop! I've not set out to prove anything just to counter-balance an argument. Indeed I accept the points you make as readily as you have mine. We could clearly toss the caber between us all day but, like you, I have other things to do. I hope the pizza goes down well.
Dr The Singh Posted 20 November 2015 Posted 20 November 2015 Was on the lunchtime news: poor monthly figures, deficit up slightly, due to poor tax revenues and slower than expected net spending cuts (partly due to rising pensions costs). You can't read much into any monthly figures, as there are always upward and downward blips. Apparently the tax revenues aren't so bad over 6 months, though they're behind their deficit reduction target as they've not cut as much as expected yet. Personally, I'd be happier for them to miss their deficit target and cause less social damage. Don't worry. Only thing I take personally is failing to get other things done because I've spent too much time on here - entirely my choice and my fault! Previous forum polls have suggested an even left-right divide, maybe a little more left before, a little more right now, but not much in it. I actually enjoy proper arguments with right-wing opponents more than exercises in back-slapping with left-wing fellow travellers. Only problem is a recent imbalance - lots of slating of Labour, who have zero power, for trivialities like personal disputes, and not much argument over policy, be that Labour policy or the policies of the Tories, who actually have the power to implement their policies. Anyway, if I don't like it, I should contribute other stuff myself - or I should fvck off and stop whining, frankly! Fear not, good Doctor, I'm not going, just maybe appearing a bit less frequently in politics threads. No drugs, alcohol or sexy ladies, just work, family issues and intensive training in the Webbo Succinct Posting technique. No booze for nearly 6 months now...am missing it! I miss you already!! When we going for the booze and women??
Rincewind Posted 20 November 2015 Posted 20 November 2015 What is this bloke on? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-says-more-women-should-be-sent-to-prison-to-achieve-equality-with-men-a6741556.html
MooseBreath Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 He made a very reasonable and useful point in the context of increasing feminist extremism. If he's on anything then it's perhaps an unusually high dosage of common sense.
Webbo Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 Are you a female? Aren't men allowed an opinion?
Dr The Singh Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 Aren't men allowed an opinion?That's his chat up line, stupid
davieG Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 There's nothing much new in the world of politics and finance. Jim Slater and the warning from the 1970s that we ignored By Jonty BloomBusiness correspondent, BBC News 20 November 2015 From the sectionBusiness Image copyrightGetty ImagesImage captionJim Slater, left, playing Monopoly in his early 1970s heydayJim Slater has died aged 86. The name probably means nothing to anyone under the age of 50, but in the 1970s Jim Slater was a truly famous businessman. A chartered accountant and stock market investor, he built up an empire by buying small companies and selling off parts of their business for more than he paid for the whole company. His business Slater Walker was a stock market darling, but it - and he - came a cropper in spectacular style. His asset-stripping empire expanded at a furious rate and then moved into banking and financial services, specialising in funding takeovers, mergers and property deals, but just like the rapid growth of the financial sector in the early years of this century, it was too good to last As the stock market and property values faltered in the early 70s, Slater Walker's business model began to fall apart. It had lent huge amounts of money to companies that were now struggling and Slater Walker turned from a model of the new bright business future to a failed bank with remarkable speed. The Bank of England had to step in and bail it out with £110m, a huge sum at the time, causing many to complain that while British manufacturing companies were allowed to go bust with hardly a murmur there was endless tax payer money available to save a very badly run and obviously under-regulated bank. It was a lesson that it took far less than 40 years to forget and, by 2008, badly run and regulated banks were once again lending far too much to businesses they didn't really understand. The bailout this time has cost many, many billions and caused the toughest economic downturn in living memory - and probably far longer. Jim Slater never returned to the forefront of British business but he became a wealthy man once again through property deals and stock market investments.
MooseBreath Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 Pretty poor from the BBC to say "the bailout has cost many, many billions" with no recognition of the fact that most if not all of that money is being and will continue to be returned. There's still a reasonable chance that the government will make a profit from the bail outs.
Thracian Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 Pretty poor from the BBC to say "the bailout has cost many, many billions" with no recognition of the fact that most if not all of that money is being and will continue to be returned. There's still a reasonable chance that the government will make a profit from the bail outs. Pretty poor from the BBC to say "the bailout has cost many, many billions" with no recognition of the fact that most if not all of that money is being and will continue to be returned. There's still a reasonable chance that the government will make a profit from the bail outs. Pretty poor from the BBC to say "the bailout has cost many, many billions" with no recognition of the fact that most if not all of that money is being and will continue to be returned. There's still a reasonable chance that the government will make a profit from the bail outs. I don't think the BBC is a reliable source for any political opinion.
davieG Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 I don't think the BBC is a reliable source for any political opinion. Show me a media outlet that is? Irrespective of whether we can or will pay the money back it seemingly costing us a lot in the quality of life and it's still shows that there's not much new as i said.
Rincewind Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 I'm beginning to think Alf was right about the politics thread.
Webbo Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 I'm beginning to think Alf was right about the politics thread. In what way?
Rincewind Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 Why block this bill? Children need first aid training in schools. I suppose will think it a great idea not to have it as it was a Tory MP spoke so long so as to give no time to debate. It is the same MP who has done it on other bills. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mps-block-bill-to-give-first-aid-training-to-children-by-talking-until-time-runs-out-a6742251.html
Thracian Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 Show me a media outlet that is? Irrespective of whether we can or will pay the money back it seemingly costing us a lot in the quality of life and it's still shows that there's not much new as i said. Show me a media outlet that is? Irrespective of whether we can or will pay the money back it seemingly costing us a lot in the quality of life and it's still shows that there's not much new as i said. I couldn't. It seems you have to trawl in 20 directions to get the true facts and implications on any subject. And, even then, every potential solution has a downside. I notice it among my own friends and family as well as Corbyn (concerning terrorism) only today. There's opinion/nebulous advice aplenty but very few specific and potentially workable solutions/proposals.
Thracian Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 Why block this bill? Children need first aid training in schools. I suppose will think it a great idea not to have it as it was a Tory MP spoke so long so as to give no time to debate. It is the same MP who has done it on other bills. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mps-block-bill-to-give-first-aid-training-to-children-by-talking-until-time-runs-out-a6742251.html I don't know why the bill was blocked or whether children should be taught to administer first aid in schools? I've not had chance to read the arguments one way or another. Have you?
Webbo Posted 21 November 2015 Posted 21 November 2015 Why block this bill? Children need first aid training in schools. I suppose will think it a great idea not to have it as it was a Tory MP spoke so long so as to give no time to debate. It is the same MP who has done it on other bills. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mps-block-bill-to-give-first-aid-training-to-children-by-talking-until-time-runs-out-a6742251.html I don't know why he did it, it doesn't seem a bad idea but I'm sure he had his reasons. This filibustering does seem a cheap trick and doesn't show the bloke in a good light.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.