The Politics Thread

[Guest MattP]

Delighted to see Ken finally rrecognising what a serious problem benefit fraud is, there is hope yet!

[leicsmac]

Fair enough, in an ideal world we wouldn't need these powers but lets not pretend that there are no terrorists who want to cause harm to this country and it's citizens.If we can do anything to stop/disrupt them we should. I guarantee that people who are most against this will be the first to blame the govt if an atrocity occurs.

 

Can't really disagree there. The world is what it is - and some people just like to be cvnts to each other for utterly stupid reasons. Maybe one day we'll get past that...or we'll make each other extinct. 

 

I guess it's the seeming lack of accountability that is the reason a lot of people are suspicious. Obviously there is such a thing as sensitive data and they can't reveal too much of themselves, but then the other side of the sword is that then you have to take a lot on faith and trust, which given the natural cynicism of the average human can be tricky. As I said earlier on, with what they do they can't really expect to be thanked and indeed they may well be expected to be hated by many, but that's the job they chose.

[Frank to be]

Why would they want to spy on you? Don't you think they've got better things to do?

They should have better things to do than be spying on me that's for sure. But why do they need the power to spy on me if it's so pointless?

Without wishing to get to deep into conspiracy territory, there are very clear and cynical ways in which a government could seek to moderate and manipulate public opinion through the Internet and having the power to know who is saying and looking at what will assist them greatly in achieving that kind of mind control.

But this is more about principle at this stage, I've seen no evidence that these powers will improve my security, so why are they needed.

Additionally, there are security issues with the storage of the browsing history data. That data would be quite a coup for hackers, who could use it in all sorts of ways, from blackmail to working out people's routines, stealing their identities to achieving a business advantage.

[Frank to be]

The secret services tend to keep things secret. The clue is in the name.

The government aren't a secret service though and it is they who are proposing these powers. If they are necessary they should easily be able to provide specific examples of where the powers would have saved lives.

[Webbo]

Can't really disagree there. The world is what it is - and some people just like to be cvnts to each other for utterly stupid reasons. Maybe one day we'll get past that...or we'll make each other extinct. 

 

I guess it's the seeming lack of accountability that is the reason a lot of people are suspicious. Obviously there is such a thing as sensitive data and they can't reveal too much of themselves, but then the other side of the sword is that then you have to take a lot on faith and trust, which given the natural cynicism of the average human can be tricky.

Scepticism is healthy, cynicism is poison. I didn't like the last labour govt , I disagreed with most of what they did but I don't doubt they they thought they were doing what they thought was best.

I don't want to think to think the worst of everyone, every time. I wouldn't want to live like that.

[Webbo]

The government aren't a secret service though and it is they who are proposing these powers. If they are necessary they should easily be able to provide specific examples of where the powers would have saved lives.

You're being pedantic, the govt aren't spying on you, certain govt agencies are spying, for want of a better word, on people they suspect have  ill intentions towards the rest of us.

[leicsmac]

Scepticism is healthy, cynicism is poison. I didn't like the last labour govt , I disagreed with most of what they did but I don't doubt they they thought they were doing what they thought was best.

 

Again, I agree. But again, you could say that the very reason they're doing what they do is so people have the freedom to be cynical. It may be in many peoples opinion to be ungrateful, but if the UK is truly free it's something they must accept.

 

In any case, I know that power corrupts, and so I will always be skeptical of those who seek to gather information about how masses of other people act, because that knowledge on a large scale gives you power. And we humans are, to a man, an easily corruptible breed. Doesn't matter who you are.

[Frank to be]

You're being pedantic, the govt aren't spying on you, certain govt agencies are spying, for want of a better word, on people they suspect have to have ill intentions on the rest of us.

Actually gchq were spying more or less indiscriminately. Millions of people had their webcams hacked and images stolen, a lot of them show people who were actually masturbating. What possible vital security information was gained by collecting images of people performing sex acts for one another over a webcam?

[Webbo]

Actually gchq were spying more or less indiscriminately. Millions of people had their webcams hacked and images stolen, a lot of them were actually masturbating in the stolen images. What possible vital security information was gained by collecting images of people performing sex acts for one another over a webcam?

I'll take your word for it.

[Frank to be]

I'll take your word for it.

You don't need to. The link I posted earlier explains all of that, and there are many more articles besides that which are based on genuine leaked documents. It happened. It's probably still happening.

Don't do anything in front of a webcam you wouldn't want your mother to see, kids. Even if you don't think it's recording, it may well be. This is the world we now live in.

[Thracian]

The government aren't a secret service though and it is they who are proposing these powers. If they are necessary they should easily be able to provide specific examples of where the powers would have saved lives.

 

 

There's already too much said about covert operations. The government will receive representations and consider them on their merits.

Given the cost of the monitoring/surveillance we're talking about you can be sure there's good reason to act and it might well be considered irresponsible in retrospect if action is not taken.  

[BlueSi13]

So am I talking the truth?

Can some fooker on here answer my question 1?

 

It's a tricky one for the BBC/British government I think Singh.  I'm sure there are countless issues our administration would like to discuss regarding India, however due to the Empire whenever we are critical we are accused of 'meddling' and being 'imperialist' and 'colonialist' etc etc etc.  The Indians have also become quite deft at deflecting criticism from abroad by laying the blame squarely on Britain's doorstep.

 

Since independence, relations with India have always been rather fraught so it might just be a case of silence to preserve the fragile calm between governments as it takes very little for things to sour quite dramatically between the two. 

 

The guilt regarding our colonial past prevents restricts us in many aspects of foreign policy and this might be an example of that.

[Thracian]

They should have better things to do than be spying on me that's for sure. But why do they need the power to spy on me if it's so pointless?

Without wishing to get to deep into conspiracy territory, there are very clear and cynical ways in which a government could seek to moderate and manipulate public opinion through the Internet and having the power to know who is saying and looking at what will assist them greatly in achieving that kind of mind control.

But this is more about principle at this stage, I've seen no evidence that these powers will improve my security, so why are they needed.

Additionally, there are security issues with the storage of the browsing history data. That data would be quite a coup for hackers, who could use it in all sorts of ways, from blackmail to working out people's routines, stealing their identities to achieving a business advantage.

 

 

 

You're saying its pointless - other people think it's vital. I happen to agree with them and for good reason. As for the hackers if they really want to get at you they will and in many cases do.

There's nothing "safe" about the internet or online anything either from the government or all sorts of other predatory opportunists representing an unending list of interests, legal or otherwise.

If you want to be off the radar best destroy the computer and find some really clever friends. 

[Thracian]

They should have better things to do than be spying on me that's for sure. But why do they need the power to spy on me if it's so pointless?

Without wishing to get to deep into conspiracy territory, there are very clear and cynical ways in which a government could seek to moderate and manipulate public opinion through the Internet and having the power to know who is saying and looking at what will assist them greatly in achieving that kind of mind control.

But this is more about principle at this stage, I've seen no evidence that these powers will improve my security, so why are they needed.

Additionally, there are security issues with the storage of the browsing history data. That data would be quite a coup for hackers, who could use it in all sorts of ways, from blackmail to working out people's routines, stealing their identities to achieving a business advantage.

 

 

 

What do you think the British Brainwashing Corporation does on behalf of the Labour Party and its socialist ideology almost without rest?  Neutral? They're about as neutral as reverse gear. 

[leicsmac]

There's already too much said about covert operations. The government will receive representations and consider them on their merits.

Given the cost of the monitoring/surveillance we're talking about you can be sure there's good reason to act and it might well be considered irresponsible in retrospect if action is not taken.  

 

Can you?

 

Sounds a lot like blind faith to me, and blind faith in any person or group of people with power tends to end badly.

 

 

What do you think the British Brainwashing Corporation does on behalf of the Labour Party and its socialist ideology almost without rest?  Neutral? They're about as neutral as reverse gear. 

 

Even if that were true, your answer to manipulation of people through media is...manipulation in a different direction through different media? The cure sounds to be as bad as the disease.

[Guest]

How would you tackle the high level security threat to the UK? Especially given that we seem to be inviting further threat day in and day out with a naivity it's hard to comprehend. 

 

What about welly wanging?

 

It'd be as successful.

[Guest]

Fair enough, in an ideal world we wouldn't need these powers but lets not pretend that there are no terrorists who want to cause harm to this country and it's citizens.If we can do anything to stop/disrupt them we should. I guarantee that people who are most against this will be the first to blame the govt if an atrocity occurs.

 

We could put all foreigners in prison and all natives could be made to wear a chip and recording devices.

[Strokes]

I have to agree with frank and Leicsmac here, the charter intrudes on our civil liberties and solves sod all. I'd be delighted if the House of Lords bombed this out.

[Webbo]

We could put all foreigners in prison and all natives could be made to wear a chip and recording devices.

What on earth are you talking about?

[Webbo]

As I understand it the new rules mean ISPs are required to keep a record of what sites we've been on and who we've emailed for a year. The security services are allowed to access this information if they can show good cause to a judge.

 

To hear some on here you'd think the govt had fitted a camera in everybody's houses.

[Dr The Singh]

As I understand it the new rules mean ISPs are required to keep a record of what sites we've been on and who we've emailed for a year. The security services are allowed to access this information if they can show good cause to a judge.

To hear some on here you'd think the govt had fitted a camera in everybody's houses.

I'm currently checking everyroom to make sure. However the only cameras I have found are the ones installed by you Webbo

[Webbo]

I'm currently checking everyroom to make sure. However the only cameras I have found are the ones installed by you Webbo

I shall be passing on the tape to the police as well.

[Rincewind]

If a Labour government was in power some would say that the spying was similar to living in a communist state. Oh the irony.

But as they are not in power the spying is done for national security and our safety. Hurrah hurrah. We cannot have these nasty foreigners running about causing mayhem everyday can we. Not to mention the lefties that speak of equality and fairness. How dare they?

I find it strange agreeing with some of you. The quicker they install cameras on every street corner and in everyone's home the better it will be for the good old hard working man.

 

Much needed edit.

I neglected to add the          It does not take much to get the general pubic into a panic and take in all the hysterical hype over security and I find that amusing.

[Webbo]

If a Labour government was in power some would say that the spying was similar to living in a communist state. Oh the irony.

But as they are not in power the spying is done for national security and our safety. Hurrah hurrah. We cannot have these nasty foreigners running about causing mayhem everyday can we. Not to mention the lefties that speak of equality and fairness. How dare they?

I find it strange agreeing with some of you. The quicker they install cameras on every street corner and in everyones home the better it will be for the goozTryd old hard working man.

Ken, this is just putting a legal framework on what's been going on for the last 10 years, when we had a Labour govt.

 

Why are people going on about foreigners as well?

[Frank to be]

As I understand it the new rules mean ISPs are required to keep a record of what sites we've been on and who we've emailed for a year. The security services are allowed to access this information if they can show good cause to a judge.

To hear some on here you'd think the govt had fitted a camera in everybody's houses.

GCHQ effectively already have done that by stealth. You might not be concerned by this specific move, but what about what comes next, would you be happy to have a tracking device injected into you and the data stored? If you've not been anywhere you're not supposed to you've got nothing to worry about, right?