The Politics Thread

[Guest MattP]

You seem pretty leery of their attitude in Westminster if some of your posts are anything to go by. Is it that you're unhappy with their image, rather than their message and policy?

 

In Westminster Hall they should be commended, good attendance records and seem to spend a lot of time there.

 

The problem I have with them is they manage to get a free pass on everything by blaming it on "the Tories in Westminster" - although I can't knock the strategy as it's a huge vote winner these days North of the border.

[cityfanlee23]

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/00f1d9c4-9392-4045-bb98-1aaf04cf041f

 

Starts at 5.56, watching it now! 

[cityfanlee23]

Just watched Alberto costa, he rips into them 

 

watch Ian Austin afterwards, he absolutely destroys them 

[Darkon84]

The hilarious thing is that they managed to convince nearly half of scotland they would be better off under these idiots 

 

Scotland took a 16bn subsidy last year, since then oil prices have dropped, and they have been given full devolution over taxes, They don't want to pay their own subsidy by taxing the scottish people heavier, yet they still take their subsidy   

 

They are absolutely spineless, I remember in PMQ's about 5 weeks ago or something, The SNP stood up, and said that the PM had lied and not given the powers in the "vow" to the scottish parliament, They based this claim on the fact that "Only 9% of scots believe it's been fulfilled" I nearly spat my drink out laughing, 

PM stood up and said along the lines of "Which vows have not been fulfilled" and they could not answer! they just regurgitated 3x that the scottish people "THINK" the vow has now been met!

 

The fact of the matter is, Scotland was never going to run a surplus as it was, and the fact they now have had a huge hit on oil prices means they will more than likely need that subsidy again this year, Yet they refuse to put taxes up to pay for it! They want it both ways, As a nation I hope Scotland do get their independence, If they feel we hold them back then so be it, they can have their bloody independence and deal with the consequences should they arise.

 

The only thing I don't want, is for the Scottish people to then get worse off because of the SNP. 

They come across as "Anti Austerity" to get votes from the scottish people, yet they vote for austerity measures, and vote against proposed bills that do not require austerity, they are a spineless party and just regurgitate what that fool Alex salmond feeds them.

 

Can't argue with any of that to be fair. The SNP MP's barely have a clue on any matter. They're like a rabble of schoolkids in the corner who just boo anything they don't like or understand, which tends to be a fair amount! Your point regarding their questioning on the 'vows' was something which Costa was getting at last night too, they kept chirping on about his and that, but with no actual figures or evidence, just claims that they had spoken to some constituents who basically just didn't like the English and had swallowed the SNP's horsesh1t and believed everything they said.

[Darkon84]

Costa is great isn't he? I don't know how he kept his cool throughout the bill with the amount of giving way . It hasn't had much coverage down here but Labour not voting with the SNP last night is another nail in the coffin, they really don't seem to realise the damage that this causes.

 

Labour now just 1% ahead of the Tories in Scotland in the latest polls. Next spring will be very interesting.

 

He's absolutely fantastic! A genuinely nice bloke the couple of times I've met him too and seriously intelligent. I think he must have just been chuckling to himself inside, giving way to them time and again, knowing they would simply trip themselves up. He's a first class orator and was very quick last night, it's just a shame that more MPs weren't there to see how it should be done.

 

I'd imagine, as he alluded to last night, that there may well be a considerable amount of blue showing up in Scotland next year.

[cityfanlee23]

Do you believe we can ever rebuild a relationship between us and scotland? 

@@Darkon84

@@MattP

 

Or is the false hope built by the SNP brought too many scottish patriots out to ever try to build something great? 

Seems to me that we are just stalling the inevitable that they will leave, It seems we could give them a £100bn christmas present and the SNP would say it's not enough and they are still better alone... 

[Darkon84]

I like to think we can, and I've still some faith in the Scottish people to wake up and begin to see the SNP for what they really are. I'm not too sure what the reporting is like up there regarding things like PMQs etc, but, unfortunately, it's probably very nationalist and not showing the SNP in the true like which we can see. Some of these truths need to be highlighted to the Scottish people and if that can be done effectively, it could sway enough people with common sense back in this direction.

 

After their Yes/No vote, I couldn't have cared and wanted them gone to be honest, but time has passed, and I think it could be a loss if they left, especially for them, and even though it would be nice to say 'I told you so', I wouldn't want to see our neighbours fall. I like to think that there are/will be a lot of people up there who, similar to myself, have cooled off after that campaign and can reflect on it in a clearer light now and realise the SNP are not necessarily the way forward.

[MooseBreath]

It was such a missed opportunity them not voting for independence. The oil slump would have left them destitute within months of independence. They would have been queuing up at the borders by now. Such a shame we didn't get the opportunity to replace our current underclass with a Legion of brave Scots. I could have had two of them sweeping up the leaves this autumn and another chopping wood ready for winter and still have had enough change out of a quid for a Mars bar.

[Guest MattP]

Do you believe we can ever rebuild a relationship between us and scotland? 

@@Darkon84

@@MattP

 

Or is the false hope built by the SNP brought too many scottish patriots out to ever try to build something great? 

Seems to me that we are just stalling the inevitable that they will leave, It seems we could give them a £100bn christmas present and the SNP would say it's not enough and they are still better alone... 

 

I think it's almost impossible with the current generation now, they genuinely don't like us and think Westminster is out to bugger Scotland at every corner, the younger they are the more left wing and pro independence they seem to be as well, I think taking full foscal autonomy could kill them off but obviously they have no intention of taking that without full independence.

 

As others have said now, I just think it's time for them to go, they want different things than the rest of the UK do, it's time for them to chase them and then to learn the harsh truths of the sort of politics they pursue in a high welfare and high taxtation society, sure we would do well out of it given the amount of wealthy Scots who would cross the border.

 

What always gets me when I read the Tweets of the SNP politicians is how obsessed with welfare they are, it's almost as if it's a badge of honour to be on the dole in Scotland.

[Darkon84]

I think it's almost impossible with the current generation now, they genuinely don't like us and think Westminster is out to bugger Scotland at every corner, the younger they are the more left wing and pro independence they seem to be as well, I think taking full foscal autonomy could kill them off but obviously they have no intention of taking that without full independence.

 

As others have said now, I just think it's time for them to go, they want different things than the rest of the UK do, it's time for them to chase them and then to learn the harsh truths of the sort of politics they pursue in a high welfare and high taxtation society, sure we would do well out of it given the amount of wealthy Scots who would cross the border.

 

What always gets me when I read the Tweets of the SNP politicians is how obsessed with welfare they are, it's almost as if it's a badge of honour to be on the dole in Scotland.

 

 

Despite my idealistic hopes of the Scottish collectively seeing through the SNP, you're more than likely right, particularly on how we would benefit with the wealthy and businesses jumping ship to head South.

[RedSoxUK]

If a Labour government was in power some would say that the spying was similar to living in a communist state. Oh the irony.

But as they are not in power the spying is done for national security and our safety. Hurrah hurrah. We cannot have these nasty foreigners running about causing mayhem everyday can we. Not to mention the lefties that speak of equality and fairness. How dare they?

I find it strange agreeing with some of you. The quicker they install cameras on every street corner and in everyone's home the better it will be for the good old hard working man.

 

Much needed edit.

I neglected to add the          It does not take much to get the general pubic into a panic and take in all the hysterical hype over security and I find that amusing.

 

I understand the sarcasm and satire, but this really isn't a left / right topic  - it's a libertarian vs authoritartian topic, and it attacks our civil liberties.

[Rincewind]

I understand the sarcasm and satire, but this really isn't a left / right topic  - it's a libertarian vs authoritarian topic, and it attacks our civil liberties.

Exactly and I agree. There just seems to be some OTT defending of it from certain quarters.

Someone once said (the quote may not be exact)  the way to take control of the general public is a little at a time so as they do not notice.

[cityfanlee23]

Exactly and I agree. There just seems to be some OTT defending of it from certain quarters.

Someone once said (the quote may not be exact)  the way to take control of the general public is a little at a time so as they do not notice.

 

Think "Money" has been doing that for years 

[Webbo]

Exactly and I agree. There just seems to be some OTT defending of it from certain quarters.

Someone once said (the quote may not be exact)  the way to take control of the general public is a little at a time so as they do not notice.

Could you explain how this particular measure is controlling you in anyway?

[Dr The Singh]

Good to see a paper call a spade a spade, calling Modi and his party Hindu fundamentalist and a party that have a Hindu nationalist agenda is very unique

http://metro.co.uk/2015/11/10/a-swastika-was-projected-onto-the-houses-of-parliament-ahead-of-indian-pm-modis-visit-5491922/

[Guest]

John Major attacks shocking poverty levels and hits out at Osborne's plans.

 

Always felt he was more left than Blair.

[cityfanlee23]

John Major attacks shocking poverty levels and hits out at Osborne's plans.

 

Always felt he was more left than Blair.

 

Osbourne/Cameron are not true Conservatives IMO, they pledged both of their campaigns on conservative policy, and broke conservative morals in the first occasion, which was broadly accepted as being a result of the desperate financial situation we found ourselves in, However right now they are starting to take the piss out of the tax payer and the people that voted for them, I voted conservative, and even I'm sitting back during their conferences/PMQ and thinking "shut up, what a load of crap that answer was"

Unfortunately politics is more point scoring than real debate and solution, Major was much more left than the current government/more left than blair.

[Rincewind]

Osbourne/Cameron are not true Conservatives IMO, they pledged both of their campaigns on conservative policy, and broke conservative morals in the first occasion, which was broadly accepted as being a result of the desperate financial situation we found ourselves in, However right now they are starting to take the piss out of the tax payer and the people that voted for them, I voted conservative, and even I'm sitting back during their conferences/PMQ and thinking "shut up, what a load of crap that answer was"

Unfortunately politics is more point scoring than real debate and solution, Major was much more left than the current government/more left than blair.

Nice to see someone take a broader view. Unfortunately there are many that will back and defend them regardless of what they do.

There is not a lot of choice for the middle ground for people. It is good that some Tories are now speaking out.

[cityfanlee23]

Nice to see someone take a broader view. Unfortunately there are many that will back and defend them regardless of what they do.

There is not a lot of choice for the middle ground for people. It is good that some Tories are now speaking out.

 

 

It's so frustrating to see, Using the austerity line as a matter of economic/national security, If we are that desperate financially, How can you justify cutting tax credits from the people at the bottom working, yet give a £154m tax break to hedge funds (Which funded £55m to the tories) 

 

The tax credit system needed reform, we inherited a system that made people on £60,000 a year eligible for Tax Credits which is ridiculous, But you can't play the deficit line then give tax breaks to hedge funds... 

I really believed that there would be a positive term from Cameron ahead (although I knew they wanted to cut more) I was hopeful that they would stick to what they had said (as hard as it can be at times) 

Yet they are already only a few months into their term going against their campaign and manifesto, and it's damaging. 

They really are trying to push a top down society to the extreme, You don't cut a hedge from the bottom up.

 

That said, What was the alternative in may? Ed Miliband/Ed Balls?! I'd rather scoop my eyeballs out with a spoon. 

 

I'm typically not a socialist, I don't think socialism as a full platform of politics can work (Although I agree with some policies) but I have to admit, Jeremy corbyn is pushing me further away from david cameron by the day, That said, I dont think Corbyn is pulling me toward him, just away from the current government, I'd go as far to say, the damage done to the Liberals, Ukip and Labour, has left the tories in an almost dictatorship position. 

 

Thank god Corbyn is so Left wing, I'd hate to see the mess Cameron/Osbourne would get us into if Blair and brown were in opposition agreeing with almost everything they say! 

[ousefox]

I think you'd have to be incredibly naïve not to have expected the sort of things Cameron/Osborne are doing now.

[Rincewind]

Yes I think my previous post where I said Corbyn was pulling me towards him could have been put bette  like you have done saying being driven away from Cameron although I was never a Tory. Despite what others say I was not on the far left either. I always thought myself as more of a liberal. Not LibDem. Corbyn is at least raising issues that a more moderate Labour opposition would not. It is early days. Corbyn may step down before the next GE and in some way I hope he does then recommends people vote for the new leader. This will win back voters that were put off both by the Blairites andthose worried about the effect Corbyn policies could have. Personally I like his principles if  not all his policies. I like how he speaks and does not let personal attacks affect him. It is a refreshing change for a MP. That said it may not be enough to win enough over or right for a PM.  I do not know.

[Rincewind]

I think you'd have to be incredibly naïve not to have expected the sort of things Cameron/Osbourne are doing now.

I said before the election that cutbacks would get worse and I was called all sorts of names.

[cityfanlee23]

I think you'd have to be incredibly naïve not to have expected the sort of things Cameron/Osborne are doing now.

 

Oh I know that, Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of austerity, I knew it would be hard, and in some areas of our politics austerity was almost a necessity because we were throwing money away on some policies, I don't agree with the extent of the austerity, but I know it would be coming should I vote Tory in may,

However, There was absolutely no way I was going to vote Labour, Miliband and Balls were more dangerous in my opinion, those fools couldn't get anywhere near number 10, they managed to alienate everyone.

 

At the time I knew austerity was on the cards, but as a voter that is quite central, I was inbetween a rock and a hard place, Vote for austerity or vote for an even bigger circus under miliband, 

What I do not condone is the Lies cameron has been telling to get votes, it's a disgrace, He's lied before, and all politicians will lie again (Unfortunately that's how votes are won these days, its a game of who can promise the public the most, unrealistic or not) but it does not excuse lies as big as the tax credit lie etc.

 

Yes I think my previous post where I said Corbyn was pulling me towards him could have been put bette  like you have done saying being driven away from Cameron although I was never a Tory. Despite what others say I was not on the far left either. I always thought myself as more of a liberal. Not LibDem. Corbyn is at least raising issues that a more moderate Labour opposition would not. It is early days. Corbyn may step down before the next GE and in some way I hope he does then recommends people vote for the new leader. This will win back voters that were put off both by the Blairites andthose worried about the effect Corbyn policies could have. Personally I like his principles if  not all his policies. I like how he speaks and does not let personal attacks affect him. It is a refreshing change for a MP. That said it may not be enough to win enough over or right for a PM.  I do not know.

 

Agree with this completely. I'm in the same boat as you, If Corbyn/McDonnell can come up with sound policies that shift them toward the center for those that want to get on in life, rather than put them on a leash, I could see myself voting Labour over a potential Osbourne tory party come the next election, The Lib Dems don't look like they will be in any shape to compete by the next election but we will have to wait and see, all I know is that if these contradictions and lies keep happening from the tories, my vote will not be going their way.

[Guest MattP]

Do people still think we are genuinely going through austerity? We simply aren't, the country is still borrowing 80 billion a year to get by, families earning 40k a year are still being given tax credits, people on the dole are still being given cash rather than vouchers for things that are absolute necccessary, we're still talking about an extra 8 billion (where he is getting this from I have no idea) for the NHS.

 

The only nation in Europe that has a genuine anti-austerity claim is Greece.

 

If people think this is austerity just wait until we actually have to start cutting services because we have ran out of money.

[Rincewind]

This is what John Major said on a Sky News page. Credit to him. I bet you never thought I would praise a Tory.

 

He said: "Many are vulnerable, unequipped with skills, trapped by circumstance, often old, perhaps sick or disabled. For them, a comfortable life seems a fantasy. Often the week lasts longer than the money.

"I have never forgotten living in such circumstances. There is no security. No peace of mind. The pain of every day is the fear of what might happen tomorrow. It is terrifying - and it never leaves you."

"Poverty isn't only about empty pockets. The poorest among us not only live meaner lives but shorter lives. In some of our great cities - Glasgow and Westminster among them - the lifespan of the poorest is 20 years shorter than that of the most wealthy.

"This is a shocking situation in 2015. As the world becomes richer, inequality becomes less tolerable, and the case for reducing it more urgent."