Vardy breaks a new record

[Donut]

On 13/02/2018 at 13:18, Gerbold said:

The thread's about Vardy - so, yes, Vardy's a better player than Kane. I'll qualify that for you by stating that I consider his passing better than Kane's. Both are phenomenal goalscorers but Vardys passing makes him the more effective player..

And considering that striking is predominently about putting the ball in the net and that Kane has a strike rate pushing close to messi/ronaldo levels then its absolutely obvious kane is better than vardy.

[the fox]

On 13/02/2018 at 15:05, Gerbold said:

mmm - 13 hours ago - past my bedtime and I was tired last night.

 

So Mr. 'the fox', let me try to make amends for my loose use of words.

 

1. It's true what you state. For example, I could have scored against the AC Milan defence (c.1990s) - if they'd all stood stock still and I was wearing my specs. and had my zimmer frame......or would the ref. penalise me under the FIFA 'Other Equipment' rule? Perhaps, perhaps not.

 

2. Can't argue against your statistical evidence and your excellent understanding of football. In this case, no means no.

3. Sorry, that's just so far out of context for me to be able to respond.

 

I make that 2 from 3 correct, Mr. 'the fox' - you are this week's Mastermind. There's no trophy though.

I bow to your superior wisdom. Vardy is not a better player than, or even as equal a player to Kane.

 

 

You want to go there, "Mr Gerbold"? cool!
Let's see: Kane has 2 world class seasons, 21 goals breakout season and a pending world class season ATM with 23 goals in 27 games.

Vardy has 1 world class season!

Their last 4 seasons(including this season): 

Vardy:  5-24-13-13 (Vardy has 55 PL goals in 131 games)
Kane : 21-25-29-23 (Kane has 101 PL goals in 142 games)

Vardy had never, and i say NEVER outscored Kane in the PL! Vardy only managed 1 20+ goals a season in the league, Kane did it 4 times in the last 4 seasons.

Kane has 7 goals in the CL in 6 games, Vardy has 2 in 8 games.

Kane was the 2017 top goals scorer, had more goals than Ronaldo and Messi!

Kane has a PL golden boot and is now leading the league.

Kane has a far better movement inside the box, a better finisher with the stronger and weaker foot, outside the area and with his head. he's also a better dribbler and is better at aerial duels.

 

                                

 

Kane is considered world class, vardy isn't! not because he's playing for a "bigger club". it's because he dropped 4 world class/borderline world class season in a row!

 

You picked an argument with the wrong guy, mate. Step-down your high horse and next time, don't use a bumptious tone with me.

Edited 14 February 2018 by the fox

[HighPeakFox]

Given that @Gerbold recently spoke of trying to get himself banned, I can only think he's doing his damndest to achieve that aim. It's rare I disagree with him, but on this matter I do. 

[the fox]

On 13/02/2018 at 19:17, The Doctor said:

Better goalscorer =/= better player is I suspect his position (and even then you could argue Kane's better goals per game is purely because he takes more shots, Vardys goals per shot ratio is superior to Kane, hell its superior to most strikers in the world). Vardys all round game is better than Kane's, no question

let's see:
pace: vardy
work rate: vardy
movement outside the box: vardy
now:
finishing: kane
weaker foot: kane
movement inside the box: kane
passing: a slight edge to kane
aerial duels: kane
dribbling: kane
consistency: kane
heading: kane

 

i can't see how vardy is a better footballer than kane, plus, a "better footballer" argument is only used when you're comparing players that don't play the same position.

Edited 14 February 2018 by the fox

[the fox]

and the "he takes more shots" is just a lazy argument. vardy cherrypicks his shots while kane shots from everywhere when he gets the chance. how many times do you see vardy attempting an outside shot or when there are 2+ players around him? (yeah, i know, the pool goals). most of vardy's shots are 1v1's, a set-piece header or when he sees an opening.

[Charl91]

9 minutes ago, the fox said:

and the "he takes more shots" is just a lazy argument. vardy cherrypicks his shots while kane shots from everywhere when he gets the chance. how many times do you see vardy attempting an outside shot or when there are 2+ players around him? (yeah, i know, the pool goals). most of vardy's shots are 1v1's, a set-piece header or when he sees an opening.

but...but... better conversion rate!!

 

(And that is why David Nugent is often hailed as the greatest striker to ever play for England)

[Donut]

If you were scoring at the rate Kane does youd be mad NOT to keep shooting

[fuchsntf]

This Kane-Vardy debate....

 

Both players,could lead the English Line.

Both players,are Well respect by high % of the terraces Fans,the Cheers when names

are announced.

Kane has drifted Out of International.games when England on top.

Vardy loses Out when England,are not on the Front foot,but can Push and create,

from little Support.

 

We can use both in this World Cup,both have Goals in them,this Summer they should

be tried together.The Space and concern they would create,

would be Worth taking a Look at.

Agood no10 could well also Profit.

 

They are both 2 damn good goal-getters.They are English,they are in Form.

Sturridge,Welbeck are gonners,but there are thankfully a Couple of good Young

Strikers who could also be on the plane.Then a Sterling looking good....

I believe we have strong English forwards .Its the midfield that worries me.

 

Lets not cross-swords,lets appreciate both of them,and what they Bring.

This is what following this sport means..enjoy the Talent dont spite it..!!

Kane could well be the difference, between quarters and Further  dreams,

Plus performances,that could well win over the doubters..

 

That said,Kane is my 1st choice Striker and must Play,Vardy partnership would

be great,but Not a must.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 14 February 2018 by fuchsntf

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, the fox said:

and the "he takes more shots" is just a lazy argument. vardy cherrypicks his shots while kane shots from everywhere when he gets the chance. how many times do you see vardy attempting an outside shot or when there are 2+ players around him? (yeah, i know, the pool goals). most of vardy's shots are 1v1's, a set-piece header or when he sees an opening.

Its legit criticism actually, a player who takes shots where there's only half an opening is far more wasteful than one who moves it around and waits for a good chance to open up. The team that takes 30 shots a game might not actually have been better than the team that had 10, if 25 of those 30 shots were because the ball got past the halfway line.

[the fox]

10 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Its legit criticism actually, a player who takes shots where there's only half an opening is far more wasteful than one who moves it around and waits for a good chance to open up. The team that takes 30 shots a game might not actually have been better than the team that had 10, if 25 of those 30 shots were because the ball got past the halfway line.

see it as a player who passes more in order for him to have a better chance at dribbling. it makes it unpredictable. he shoots at the level of messi and ronaldo and he scorer almost the same amount. can't see a problem there.

[The Doctor]

9 minutes ago, the fox said:

see it as a player who passes more in order for him to have a better chance at dribbling. it makes it unpredictable. he shoots at the level of messi and ronaldo and he scorer almost the same amount. can't see a problem there.

Maybe, but to me football is a team game, makes no sense to take the harder option for personal glory rather than the easier option and sacrifice personal glory for team success. One weekend I always look back to in this argument is when we properly started to pull away in the title race - away at crystal palace, Vardy gets the ball in the box, half chance on offer. Head up, pulls it back across and Mahrez taps in for another well earned 1-0. Following day, Kane finds himself in a similar position vs Liverpool and tries the shot, keeper makes a good save - they draw 1-1. That willingness to sacrifice personal glory for the team is why Vardy has a winners medal and Kane doesn't. 

 

Still, presumably we can at least agree England are stupid not to actually play them as a partnership?

Edited 14 February 2018 by The Doctor

[danfox76]

18 hours ago, the fox said:

You want to go there, "Mr Gerbold"? cool!
Let's see: Kane has 2 world class seasons, 21 goals breakout season and a pending world class season ATM with 23 goals in 27 games.

Vardy has 1 world class season!

Their last 4 seasons(including this season): 

Vardy:  5-24-13-13 (Vardy has 55 PL goals in 131 games)
Kane : 21-25-29-23 (Kane has 101 PL goals in 142 games)

Vardy had never, and i say NEVER outscored Kane in the PL! Vardy only managed 1 20+ goals a season in the league, Kane did it 4 times in the last 4 seasons.

Kane has 7 goals in the CL in 6 games, Vardy has 2 in 8 games.

Kane was the 2017 top goals scorer, had more goals than Ronaldo and Messi!

Kane has a PL golden boot and is now leading the league.

Kane has a far better movement inside the box, a better finisher with the stronger and weaker foot, outside the area and with his head. he's also a better dribbler and is better at aerial duels.

 

                                

 

Kane is considered world class, vardy isn't! not because he's playing for a "bigger club". it's because he dropped 4 world class/borderline world class season in a row!

 

You picked an argument with the wrong guy, mate. Step-down your high horse and next time, don't use a bumptious tone with me.

 

 

could still be a second "world class season" for vards.. so not really a fair stat as this season is still ongoing

plus you put vards in that TOT team i wager he would score way more.. or to put it another way when kane played for us he was shit, and in no way could do what vardy did in the same team

Edited 15 February 2018 by danfox76

[danfox76]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOVCMLa00iI

 

a world class strike if ever i saw one

Edited 15 February 2018 by danfox76

[danfox76]

vards and kane both played for us in the same team vards was good considering the players he had around him... kane had the same players around him.. in the same team and was shit

 

for me kane is only as good as the players around him. but vards will raise his game to compensate.

[Charl91]

37 minutes ago, Gerbold said:

Sorry - I didn't realise you're a Spurs fan. That puts the issue in a different light. Don't expect thanks or popularity for barging your way on to a highly partisan site and picking a fight. You know what's going to happen.

 

I am a big fan of Kane (and of the Spurs team) and I've made that unpopular point on here before - to some ironic disapproval. I don't think he's a tosser - for a start he's honest and comes over as sensible and modest. But I won't be persuaded there's the exaggerated gulf in ability between the two. It may be that you're being elitist - because Kane went through the 'thoroughbred' channels whilst Vardy didn't. I made the point elsewhere, in response to a City fan (?), that Spurs are creating far more opportunities for the kind of goals our Gary used to score - opportunist - from rebounds and deflections. Vardy isn't getting that 'supply' - he's relying overly on Mardy for passes and they're like waiting for buses to arrive.

 

So we can agree to disagree, if you so wish. Or you can put the stats down on this Forum - but at the moment you're relying on me believing a secondary source - your claims. I'm not going to look up stats - you want to prove your point then you can do the work.

 

And please not let's get personal. I've not got my "knickers in a twist"! You wished to respond to my post - I didn't initiate this discussion except by posting the initial comment. So come off it - this is about you winning the argument, without appearing to want to win - it's called a passive-aggressive stance. Make the other bloke appear as if he's dim-witted or argumentative without definitively proving your point. You make a fair argument in the middle two paras but you can cut out the "blue-tinted specs", "delusional" and "biased" crap. I tend to try to be objective but being a football fan tends to make that difficult - especially about Jamie Vardy.

 

Of course I'm not a Spurs fan  In the same way that I can say quite confidently that Messi is better than Vardy, without needing to be a Barcelona fan. Quite frankly, I don't care enough to go to the effort to post all the stats; whether you choose to believe them or just cry "fake news" is up to you. But even the goal scoring statistics posted above speak volumes, without going to need to go into the other statistics as well. Look, I get that as Leicester fans we all want our players to be the best. But imagine the shoe was on the other foot for a second; imagine that Vardy had that goal scoring record, and someone tried to argue that a player with almost half the amount of goals was a better player. You'd laugh them out of a town.

 

(Also, your attempt trying to come across as all holier-than-though is rather spoilt by trying to imply that I'm either a Spurs fan, or elitist - which is a bizzare in itself).

[Charl91]

2 minutes ago, danfox76 said:

vards and kane both played for us in the same team vards was good considering the players he had around him... kane had the same players around him.. in the same team and was shit

 

for me kane is only as good as the players around him. but vards will raise his game to compensate.

 

Kane had 13 apps for us, at the age of 19. And most of them were either subs, or played in strange positions (eg. as a wide player in a 4-3-3, thanks Pearson). Lets remember that Vardy didn't have a great first season with us either. Most people wanted him sold, if I remember correctly.

[danfox76]

3 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

 

Kane had 13 apps for us, at the age of 19. And most of them were either subs, or played in strange positions (eg. as a wide player in a 4-3-3, thanks Pearson). Lets remember that Vardy didn't have a great first season with us either. Most people wanted him sold, if I remember correctly.

my point still stands... put vardy in spurs team with them players around him he'd score way more

Edited 15 February 2018 by danfox76

[Charl91]

7 minutes ago, danfox76 said:

my point still stands... put vardy in spurs team with them players around him he'd score way more

 

Maybe a few more, but not necessarily. Firstly they wouldn't play to Vardy's strengths, so he'd have less chance to hit teams on the counter, which is how he scores many of his goals. Plus surrounding a player with better ones doesn't always increase the amount of goals scored - look at Lukaku this season, for instance.

 

It's not a great argument, because you can make that same argument for any player. Put Troy Deeney in the Man City team and he'd score more goals, but that doesn't make him as good as Harry Kane either.

 

 

[danfox76]

52 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

 

Maybe a few more, but not necessarily. Firstly they wouldn't play to Vardy's strengths, so he'd have less chance to hit teams on the counter, which is how he scores many of his goals. Plus surrounding a player with better ones doesn't always increase the amount of goals scored - look at Lukaku this season, for instance.

 

It's not a great argument, because you can make that same argument for any player. Put Troy Deeney in the Man City team and he'd score more goals, but that doesn't make him as good as Harry Kane either.

 

 

if you put Harry in a lesser team he'd be average at best.. 

[fuchsntf]

On 14.2.2018 at 22:00, The Doctor said:

Maybe, but to me football is a team game, makes no sense to take the harder option for personal glory rather than the easier option and sacrifice personal glory for team success. One weekend I always look back to in this argument is when we properly started to pull away in the title race - away at crystal palace, Vardy gets the ball in the box, half chance on offer. Head up, pulls it back across and Mahrez taps in for another well earned 1-0. Following day, Kane finds himself in a similar position vs Liverpool and tries the shot, keeper makes a good save - they draw 1-1. That willingness to sacrifice personal glory for the team is why Vardy has a winners medal and Kane doesn't. 

 

Still, presumably we can at least agree England are stupid not to actually play them as a partnership?

We are taking about goal scoring.So surely a 25+ PL Goals per season,that aint Kane failing,

but Others around him...Kane has done his bit,to try and Claim a medal.

Trying to criticise,or compare in this sense ist quite pointless.

 

[danfox76]

vardy wants to win the FA cup