Independent Regulator for Football Needed

[foxinsocks]

I am not sure we need a regulator at all. 

 

I do believe football leagues and clubs need to stop prioritizing football creditors - as this is unfair on others  ( clubs should not extend too much credit to other clubs as they may not see it)
I think clubs with big debts should be dealt with by an administrator and that prepacks should not be allowed.  A clubs entering or leaving administration should be able to do so without their league status being threatened by  the league (this just makes administration harder).
Clubs being wound up by creditors (eg HMRC) deserve to be wound up - they should have entered administration.  Therefore it would help if court winding up orders could push clubs in to administration rather than being wound up.

Edited 25 April 2022 by foxinsocks

[davieG]

7 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

I am not sure we need a regulator at all. 

 

I do believe football leagues and clubs need to stop prioritizing football creditors - as this is unfair on others  ( clubs should not extend too much credit to other clubs as they may not see it)
I think clubs with big debts should be dealt with by an administrator and that prepacks should not be allowed.  A clubs entering or leaving administration should be able to do so without their league status being threatened by  the league (this just makes administration harder).
Clubs being wound up by creditors (eg HMRC) deserve to be wound up - they should have entered administration.  Therefore it would help if court winding up orders could push clubs in to administration rather than being wound up.

Depending on their power base isn't that what a regulator could implement? However the PL is so financially strong it would resist all attempts to interfere with their control so I suspect as @Daggersposted it'll be just moving the decks.
 

[foxinsocks]

4 minutes ago, davieG said:

Depending on their power base isn't that what a regulator could implement? However the PL is so financially strong it would resist all attempts to interfere with their control so I suspect as @Daggersposted it'll be just moving the decks.
 

The fan lead review went way beyond that (golden share etc).  I have set out simple ideas that could easily be implemented - requiring changes to the league rules (re the priority of footballing debts and sanction clubs in admin) and a change to the insolvency procedures for football clubs. Simple - this would have saved bury etc.

Edited 25 April 2022 by foxinsocks

[Corky]

5 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

The biggest problem in my view is oligarchs and oil states creating inflation in players wages across the board and parasitic agents feasting on the unsustainable wage spiral as a result, taking them out of control even further. The solution is a player wage cap. If players want wage rises they need the clubs and the leagues to grow sustainably and not as a result of rich scumbags pumping their blood money into football.

 

Yep. Until wages are brought under control nothing will really change.

[Chrysalis]

On 25/04/2022 at 11:09, Sharpe's Fox said:

The biggest problem in my view is oligarchs and oil states creating inflation in players wages across the board and parasitic agents feasting on the unsustainable wage spiral as a result, taking them out of control even further. The solution is a player wage cap. If players want wage rises they need the clubs and the leagues to grow sustainably and not as a result of rich scumbags pumping their blood money into football.

 

Agree on the solution but is fair to note most inflation comes from Liverpool and Manchester United.  The super rich owners have actually increased the amount of teams winning the top division, Would us, Manchester City, Chelsea and Blackburn have won it without the owners?  More likely the title been shared between the trio of Arsenal, Manchester United and Liverpool.

 

If we think the problem is limited to the oligarchs and oil states then we wont fix much.

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

15 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Agree on the solution but is fair to note most inflation comes from Liverpool and Manchester United.  The super rich owners have actually increased the amount of teams winning the top division, Would us, Manchester City, Chelsea and Blackburn have won it without the owners?  More likely the title been shared between the trio of Arsenal, Manchester United and Liverpool.

 

If we think the problem is limited to the oligarchs and oil states then we wont fix much.

No, but the oligarchs and oil states present new problems -- ethical ones, and also non-financial motives without financial constraints. Despite the hubris, there were limits to what the "old" owners could spend. The oil states (and I include Chelsea's current/former owner as a de facto oil state), not so much...

[LaCiudad]

3 hours ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

No, but the oligarchs and oil states present new problems -- ethical ones, and also non-financial motives without financial constraints. Despite the hubris, there were limits to what the "old" owners could spend. The oil states (and I include Chelsea's current/former owner as a de facto oil state), not so much...

Also, when people so using oil ... what then?

[davieG]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63707933

 

Bury: The town where football fans are shaping politics

 

Extract

 

A year on from a landmark review of English football governance, the future of the game is becoming political. In a Greater Manchester town divided by its football club's demise, fans and politicians tell the BBC where the battle lines are being drawn.

 

An independent regulator for English football is precisely what many fans have long been clamouring for.

It was the main recommendation of a fan-led review of football governance, led by Conservative MP and former sport minister, Tracey Crouch. The collapse of Bury FC was named as one of three catalysts for the review, alongside the Covid-19 pandemic and the ill-fated European Super League.

Released a year ago this week, the review and its 10 strategic recommendations were widely touted as solutions to the beautiful game's ugly problems.

Boris Johnson's government then endorsed all of the proposals and promised legislation to give them legal effect.

Two prime minsters later, the policy document - a white paper - that lays the ground for legislation is yet to materialise. There were fears that former Prime Minister Liz Truss would ditch plans for an independent regulator and go for a more free-market approach.

Then came Rishi Sunak, a Southampton fan who, while campaigning for the Tory leadership in the summer, said he would implement the review in full.

[Fox in the North]

Independent regulator is coming and dragging the premier league with it. Good news.

[foxinsocks]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:04, Fox in the North said:

Independent regulator is coming and dragging the premier league with it. Good news.

I'm not in favour -  football is no different form other companies and the laws should apply.  The role of the EFL in controlling the golden share unless football creditors are prioritised should be scrapped - this would make clubs think twice about giving each other credit whcihc pushed up prices.  AS we have seen in Rugby the lower leagues need financial fiar play.

What would help would be a scheme to buy clubs out of administration and gift them to fan consortiums.  Allowing clubs or any other company to shake debts through prepack administration si just wrong.  The admin points deductions are counter productive 

[KingsX]

22 hours ago, foxinsocks said:

I'm not in favour -  football is no different form other companies and the laws should apply.  The role of the EFL in controlling the golden share unless football creditors are prioritised should be scrapped - this would make clubs think twice about giving each other credit whcihc pushed up prices.  AS we have seen in Rugby the lower leagues need financial fiar play.

What would help would be a scheme to buy clubs out of administration and gift them to fan consortiums.  Allowing clubs or any other company to shake debts through prepack administration si just wrong.  The admin points deductions are counter productive 

 

You want clubs to have complete freedom to sell to whomever they want, and PL clubs to spend whatever they want, regardless of competitive balance, or underlying finances …

but also have the Government step in with public funds to cover the debts of those that spend unwisely or lose interest? 

 

And “gift” such clubs to fans?  Are those fans then going to cover the costs (and usually losses) of running an EFL club?  Or will the Government end up buying the same club over and over to “re-gift” like a Christmas fruitcake? 

 

This has promise.  Think I’ll join a few supporters groups for the likes of Charlton Athletic, wait for our gift(s) of the club(s), then look for middle eastern buyers to cash out.  If I can’t find any, the Treasury has me covered.  I think.

[foxinsocks]

9 minutes ago, KingsX said:

 

You want clubs to have complete freedom to sell to whomever they want, and PL clubs to spend whatever they want, regardless of competitive balance, or underlying finances …

but also have the Government step in with public funds to cover the debts of those that spend unwisely or lose interest? 

 

And “gift” such clubs to fans?  Are those fans then going to cover the costs (and usually losses) of running an EFL club?  Or will the Government end up buying the same club over and over to “re-gift” like a Christmas fruitcake? 

 

This has promise.  Think I’ll join a few supporters groups for the likes of Charlton Athletic, wait for our gift(s) of the club(s), then look for middle eastern buyers to cash out.  If I can’t find any, the Treasury has me covered.  I think.

MY intention is the avoid clubs living beyond their means FFP.

 

Second to ensure that owners cannot asset strip clubs and tip them into and out of administration (like wasps) to shake the debts.  It has to be clear that owners of clubs entering admin will get nothing the golden share.

 

If say charlon went in to administration then it would be free of its debts -  but I would not want the clubs to be given back to the previous owners - and a fund could allow supports to bid - but running charlon would be not picknick and the shares could be held to prevent supporters groups form profiteering ...  such clubs coming out of admin may well have to rim playing staff and this may or may not lead to relegation... the clubs have to find a level that is financially viable for them.

 

These are complex situations - but that my starter for ten.   Right now owners can gamble the furure of their cub and try and shake it thru administration if the gamble doesn't come off.  Yet if we allow clubs to fold it is it he fans who suffer.  This way I am trying to shake the poor owners and keep the clubs alive.

[KingsX]

4 hours ago, foxinsocks said:

MY intention is the avoid clubs living beyond their means FFP.

 

Second to ensure that owners cannot asset strip clubs and tip them into and out of administration (like wasps) to shake the debts.  It has to be clear that owners of clubs entering admin will get nothing the golden share.

 

If say charlon went in to administration then it would be free of its debts -  but I would not want the clubs to be given back to the previous owners - and a fund could allow supports to bid - but running charlon would be not picknick and the shares could be held to prevent supporters groups form profiteering ...  such clubs coming out of admin may well have to rim playing staff and this may or may not lead to relegation... the clubs have to find a level that is financially viable for them.

 

These are complex situations - but that my starter for ten.   Right now owners can gamble the furure of their cub and try and shake it thru administration if the gamble doesn't come off.  Yet if we allow clubs to fold it is it he fans who suffer.  This way I am trying to shake the poor owners and keep the clubs alive.

 

It is difficult.  How do you square the circle and apply "some" socialism to one sector of a free-market economy?  By socialism I mean control of capital -- restricting who may buy clubs, and/or their spending when they do -- and creating a safety net so they cannot go bust.

 

The market, by design, punishes businesses that lose money.  It will continue to prove fatal to some poorly run football clubs.  Clubs are seen as irreplaceable community assets, and self-government under FFP has failed to protect them as such.  So there is political will to come up with a “regulator” to govern these particular private enterprises.  How do you build this chimera?  It's a headache to even think about.

[foxinsocks]

On 15/12/2022 at 19:50, KingsX said:

 

It is difficult.  How do you square the circle and apply "some" socialism to one sector of a free-market economy?  By socialism I mean control of capital -- restricting who may buy clubs, and/or their spending when they do -- and creating a safety net so they cannot go bust.

 

The market, by design, punishes businesses that lose money.  It will continue to prove fatal to some poorly run football clubs.  Clubs are seen as irreplaceable community assets, and self-government under FFP has failed to protect them as such.  So there is political will to come up with a “regulator” to govern these particular private enterprises.  How do you build this chimera?  It's a headache to even think about.

Sorry to be so slow to come back. 

Agree.  Yet at the moment,  some can buy a lower league club to gamble on promotion... and let it go pop if necessary.  Then they buy it back.

The problem is thst fans can lose a club like bury.

So we need some fit a propper trest... but its pretty useless.  So, a bettee mechanidm isvto havr a fund ( from tv mobey) to buy ckubs out of admin and refinance them.  That way the ckub is saved abd the previous owner punished.   

Further the administrator shoukd unwind transactions to strip assets kike groubd sales .

It a complex thing but if we spent a few days on ot we could figure it out 

Edited 20 December 2022 by foxinsocks