Are we missing a playmaker?

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Scotch said:

He WOULD have smashed it in Enzo's system, playing as an 8, not as a 10 which perfectly proves the point that playing without a 10 isn't the the issue. The issue is that our 8's aren't creative enough. 

 

That's why, I've been saying that we should put one of Marcal and Mcateer there alongside Casadei. You're undoubtedly going to get more creativity, it's just yet to be seen what we'll be trading off for it. 

.. funny enough I believe that Fatawu would be a more natural change as a high #8!!!

  He looks as if he has the vision and awareness and touch to link our play and makes instant decisions. This is not from this game, just from YouTube reels.

  It appears we now may have a proper RW so hard to look to switching him.

  

[ClaphamFox]

19 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I think not selling Ndidi and signing somebody like Chair is going to age really badly, particularly when Ndidi goes for nothing.

Agreed. Chair for Ndidi would have made it an almost-perfect window rather than a merely very good one. I suppose we may go back in for him in January depending on how the season is panning out.

 

Maresca doesn't seem averse to changing things that aren't working, so I can't see him persisting with KDH and Ndidi as the starting number 8s. Casadei will surely begin starting games after the break, and we may even see some other players (McAteer, Mavidid) given a chance there. Then if it's clear we're still weak in that position in January, we'll dip into the transfer market again.

[pmcla26]

4 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Agreed. Chair for Ndidi would have made it an almost-perfect window rather than a merely very good one. I suppose we may go back in for him in January depending on how the season is panning out.

 

Maresca doesn't seem averse to changing things that aren't working, so I can't see him persisting with KDH and Ndidi as the starting number 8s. Casadei will surely begin starting games after the break, and we may even see some other players (McAteer, Mavidid) given a chance there. Then if it's clear we're still weak in that position in January, we'll dip into the transfer market again.

Mavididi shouldn't ever be played as a centre-midfielder. 

[Taffy (Glynn)]

On 03/09/2023 at 18:50, sbfox said:

This system doesn't need a 'playmaker', so no, we're not. 

Why do people keep peddling this cr*p.

 

This system is a carbon copy of Pep's Man City system ; over recent years KDB, D. Silva and B. Silva have all been significant and influential players in their "8 role"; these are all players who were naturally 10s or played in attacking midfield/winger roles prior to Pep and are pretty much the dictionary definition of a playmaker.

 

What this system very much does need (based on the historical evidence we have) is players with a "10" skillset, but with the workrate/tenacity to play a bit deeper and not compromise the defensive side of the system. The system expects a lot of possession, which we all know can make defences fairly hard to break down. Three simple things you note watching Man City over the last couple of years :

 

Rodri - equivalent to our Winks role, helps break down defenses with quick switches of play, particulary diagonal balls to wide players making out-to-in runs. I don't think we've seen enough of Winks quickly pivoting the point of attack to unsettle defences.

 

Gundogan - tidy on the ball, but not necessarily spectacular. Creates danger with purposeful, vertical runs off the ball, often getting beyond the striker / arriving into the box. Casadei seems perfect to bring this to our side and has already shown it in patches.

 

KDB/B.Silva etc - the most natural creator in the side - particularly good at creating chances in congested areas with intricate touches/passes/one-twos. Notable that both players have that desire/skillset to drift out wide and create overloads with a winger. KDH is pretty good at doing this also, he has the mobility to get into those wider inside channels and act like an underlapping fullback. Clearly, what is lacking for him is the technical ability to unlock those deeper defences or the quality to finish consistently from range if they allow him to turn in the pockets on the edge of the area. Obviously we have to accept that we can't expect a player with everything that KDB has, but I think it's fair for people to ask whether someone like Chair would've been ideal for Enzo in this sort of role.

 

Certainly it's fair to say that we don't really have any 'central' midfielders at the club currently who thrive at unlocking defences ;

Casadei, maybe we will see more of that over time. 

Praet, he is tidy but not spectacular and lacks a little physicality/mobility

 

As others have stated, Yunus maybe looked like someone who could be coached into that role over-time... but how long will that take, for a player we only currently have on loan anyway.

Edited 5 September 2023 by Taffy (Glynn)

[sbfox]

36 minutes ago, Taffy (Glynn) said:

Why do people keep peddling this cr*p.

 

This system is a carbon copy of Pep's Man City system ; over recent years KDB, D. Silva and B. Silva have all been significant and influential players in their "8 role"; these are all players who were naturally 10s or played in attacking midfield/winger roles prior to Pep and are pretty much the dictionary definition of a playmaker.

 

What this system very much does need (based on the historical evidence we have) is players with a "10" skillset, but with the workrate/tenacity to play a bit deeper and not compromise the defensive side of the system. The system expects a lot of possession, which we all know can make defences fairly hard to break down. Three simple things you note watching Man City over the last couple of years :

 

Rodri - equivalent to our Winks role, helps break down defenses with quick switches of play, particulary diagonal balls to wide players making out-to-in runs. I don't think we've seen enough of Winks quickly pivoting the point of attack to unsettle defences.

 

Gundogan - tidy on the ball, but not necessarily spectacular. Creates danger with purposeful, vertical runs off the ball, often getting beyond the striker / arriving into the box. Casadei seems perfect to bring this to our side and has already shown it in patches.

 

KDB/B.Silva etc - the most natural creator in the side - particularly good at creating chances in congested areas with intricate touches/passes/one-twos. Notable that both players have that desire/skillset to drift out wide and create overloads with a winger. KDH is pretty good at doing this also, he has the mobility to get into those wider inside channels and act like an underlapping fullback. Clearly, what is lacking for him is the technical ability to unlock those deeper defences or the quality to finish consistently from range if they allow him to turn in the pockets on the edge of the area. Obviously we have to accept that we can't expect a player with everything that KDB has, but I think it's fair for people to ask whether someone like Chair would've been ideal for Enzo in this sort of role.

 

Certainly it's fair to say that we don't really have any 'central' midfielders at the club currently who thrive at unlocking defences ;

Casadei, maybe we will see more of that over time. 

Praet, he is tidy but not spectacular and lacks a little physicality/mobility

 

As others have stated, Yunus maybe looked like someone who could be coached into that role over-time... but how long will that take, for a player we only currently have on loan anyway.

Right, so you're basically agreeing with me. We don't need one single playmaker, we need several players who can comfortably interchange out of positions in order to unlock defence. 

[sacreblueits442]

10 minutes ago, sbfox said:

Right, so you're basically agreeing with me. We don't need one single playmaker, we need several players who can comfortably interchange out of positions in order to unlock defence. 

...have we enough intelligent players to pick up that mantle!!!

It seems as soon as we get into the last third common sense goes out the window and appalling decisions are constantly being made.

[LCFCCKEANO]

Think we have missed Praet whilst he’s been gone, hopefully he’ll come back into the fold soon

[Richmondfox]

Yes, KDH is too slow or greedy on the ball and can’t pass the ball into space for the LW.  Ndidi is Ndidi so I can’t hold that against him.  A few times on Saturday he killed the attack by passing behind the RW instead of a ball to run onto. 
 

Nacho seems to be back in pinball bumper mode and can’t control anything. 

[Bluearmyfox28]

48 minutes ago, LCFCCKEANO said:

Think we have missed Praet whilst he’s been gone, hopefully he’ll come back into the fold soon

2/3 months out no?

[danny2997]

There's always the January window if Casadei doesn't work out as the playmaker we need. Think we'd be able to get through until then even if some games are more difficult than they should be.

[LCFCCKEANO]

3 hours ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

2/3 months out no?

Shame, his movement in the final third caused issues while he was playing, hadn’t seen this

[Bluearmyfox28]

2 hours ago, LCFCCKEANO said:

Shame, his movement in the final third caused issues while he was playing, hadn’t seen this

Back injury as far as I’m aware mate.

[lcfc sheff]

think we've got enough to get promoted with this squad but would like a player of the Pascal Gross kind of mould come January.