US Presidential Election 2024

[MPH]

 it seems like, for some of the swing states the Harris honeymoon period is over. In Michigan where she took a slight lead for a while, Trump is now 3 points ahead according to one poll.

 

 

If Trump gets re-elected I personally can only draw one conclusion- it’s not at all about Harris-Trump  ( because people would then at least vote for the lesser of two evils surely?) and more about socialism-Capitalism. And conservatism/ liberalism

 

 

And although I could never vote for Trump personally, I can see that is being a fairer way to cast your vote

Edited 16 October 2024 by MPH

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, MPH said:

 it seems like, for some of the swing states the Harris honeymoon period is over. In Michigan where she took a slight lead for a while, Trump is now 3 points ahead according to one poll.

 

 

If Trump gets re-elected I personally can only draw one conclusion- it’s not at all about Harris-Trump  ( because people would then at least vote for the lesser of two evils surely?) and more about socialism-Capitalism. And conservatism/ liberalism

Americans are terrified of socialism or even the hint of it.

[jgtuk]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Americans are terrified of socialism or even the hint of it.

And there’s certainly no hint of it in either of these two parties 😂 

 

 

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, MPH said:

 it seems like, for some of the swing states the Harris honeymoon period is over. In Michigan where she took a slight lead for a while, Trump is now 3 points ahead according to one poll.

 

 

If Trump gets re-elected I personally can only draw one conclusion- it’s not at all about Harris-Trump  ( because people would then at least vote for the lesser of two evils surely?) and more about socialism-Capitalism. And conservatism/ liberalism

 

 

And although I could never vote for Trump personally, I can see that is being a fairer way to cast your vote

 

4 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Americans are terrified of socialism or even the hint of it.

And that at least some Americans would consider Harris and her party in much way Liberal or socialist shows you just how messed up the Overton Window is there.

 

There may also be a certain amount of misogyny in play, too.

[MPH]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

And that at least some Americans would consider Harris and her party in much way Liberal or socialist shows you just how messed up the Overton Window is there.

 

There may also be a certain amount of misogyny in play, too.

 

im not convinced that the misogyny is such a major part.. and if the Democrats are complaining about that, then they only have themselves to ‘blame’ and frankly, they  need to stop coming up with excuses… first is was Biden.. but he was too old ( but they VOTED for him to be their candidate) then it’s Harris but it’s Misogyny ( yet they CHOSE her as their candidate) maybe the reality is that the democrats just don’t have as much of the vote as they thought they did..

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

im not convinced that the misogyny is such a major part.. and if the Democrats are complaining about that, then they only have themselves to ‘blame’ and frankly, they  need to stop coming up with excuses… first is was Biden.. but he was too old ( but they VOTED for him to be their candidate) then it’s Harris but it’s Misogyny ( yet they CHOSE her as their candidate) maybe the reality is that the democrats just don’t have as much of the vote as they thought they did..

I don't disagree that the Dems have been lacking in their choice of candidates... but at the same time if the dreadful consequences of a second Trump term do manifest themselves (and they most likely will), I reckon most of the accountability should be put at the feet of those of those who voted for them, in their own short term self interest.

 

Hopefully, history will record the same. If there's enough people actually interested in such history and capable of interpreting it in the future, that is.

[Torquay Gunner]

30 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

im not convinced that the misogyny is such a major part.. and if the Democrats are complaining about that, then they only have themselves to ‘blame’ and frankly, they  need to stop coming up with excuses… first is was Biden.. but he was too old ( but they VOTED for him to be their candidate) then it’s Harris but it’s Misogyny ( yet they CHOSE her as their candidate) maybe the reality is that the democrats just don’t have as much of the vote as they thought they did..

I do read a fair amount of comment (probably too much) on youtube, particularly on Fox News items. Misogyny imo is very much a significant factor in this election. Harris gets frequently called ‘Heels up Harris’ as a slur on her relationship with Willie Brown and ‘cackling Kamala’ as a criticism of her laughter.  If that was a male candidate, do you think he would attract those same sort of comments?  I doubt it somehow.  

Edited 16 October 2024 by Torquay Gunner

[MPH]

30 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I don't disagree that the Dems have been lacking in their choice of candidates... but at the same time if the dreadful consequences of a second Trump term do manifest themselves (and they most likely will), I reckon most of the accountability should be put at the feet of those of those who voted for them, in their own short term self interest.

 

Hopefully, history will record the same. If there's enough people actually interested in such history and capable of interpreting it in the future, that is.

 

I 100%  agree. You vote for trump, you only have yourself to blame. No more complaining.

[WigstonWanderer]

I’m still sure this chart of Trump’s media company value is the best guide to who is likely to win the election (in a relative sense) and horrifyingly it shows momentum swinging to Trump.

 

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/?symbol=NASDAQ%3ADJT

 

Edited 16 October 2024 by WigstonWanderer

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Torquay Gunner said:

I do read a fair amount of comment (probably too much) on youtube, particularly on Fox News items. Misogyny imo is very much a significant factor in this election. Harris gets frequently called ‘Heels up Harris’ as a slur on her relationship with Willie Brown and ‘cackling Kamala’ as a criticism of her laughter.  If that was a male candidate, do you think he would attract those same sort of comments?  I doubt it somehow.  

 From what I understand, any slurs on Harris are comping from the MAGA  brigade who are indeed misogynistic to the very core..

 

I think. What is a bigger factor is that, and I don’t know why, Trumps vote within the African American population is growing and has been for a while now.. whether it was Biden or Harris. So one must ask the question, why are black people, a traditional monopoly of the Democrats, growing in support for someone who is known by many as being racist? It’s not the Trump fan club the dens are trying to win over it’s the swing voters and their own support.. and it’s not those being misogynistic so I still think it’s inaccurate to blame misogyny for her waning support. She was  never going to get any MAGA votes anyway.

 

 

To me that’s a far bigger concern for the democrats and I can't  help but think that they are absolutely missing some huge concerns by blaming misogyny and Bidens age. Are Democrats becoming out of touch with their voting block? Are they ignoring the concerns of the people? Are they relying too heavily on the ‘anyone but Trump’ ticket?

 

If Trump gets elected then the Dems will have only themselves to blame and have some huge questions to ask themselves. How can it possibly happen, for him to get elected?

 

 

it’s a little bit similar, to me, of when the Labour Party appeared to be dead and buried a few years ago. It appeared very self inflicted.

Edited 16 October 2024 by MPH

[Sir Steve Howard]

14 minutes ago, MPH said:

 From what I understand, any slurs on Harris are comping from the MAGA  brigade who are indeed misogynistic to the very core..

 

I think. What is a bigger factor is that, and I don’t know why, Trumps vote within the African American population is growing and has been for a while now.. whether it was Biden or Harris. So one must ask the question, why are black people, a traditional monopoly of the Democrats, growing in support for someone who is known by many as being racist? It’s not the Trump fan club the dens are trying to win over it’s the swing voters and their own support.. and it’s not those being misogynistic so I still think it’s inaccurate to blame misogyny for her waning support. She was  never going to get any MAGA votes anyway.

 

 

To me that’s a far bigger concern for the democrats and I can't  help but think that they are absolutely missing some huge concerns by blaming misogyny and Bidens age. Are Democrats becoming out of touch with their voting block? Are they ignoring the concerns of the people? Are they relying too heavily on the ‘anyone but Trump’ ticket?

 

If Trump gets elected then the Dems will have only themselves to blame and have some huge questions to ask themselves. How can it possibly happen, for him to get elected?

 

 

it’s a little bit similar, to me, of when the Labour Party appeared to be dead and buried a few years ago. It appeared very self inflicted.

Absolutely this.

This whole thread is anti-Trump rather than pro-Harris. Harris is not a good option at all from what I've seen. The 60 Minutes interview had sections that were a car crash - these were then edited by the broadcaster after the fact to make her look less bad?!?

Choice of Walz as running mate seems wild as well, the bloke comes across as a complete berk and his lie about Tiananmen isn't a good look at all. Tried to brush it off as "sometimes I'm a knucklehead". Why are you running for office then?

[leicsmac]

23 minutes ago, Sir Steve Howard said:

Absolutely this.

This whole thread is anti-Trump rather than pro-Harris. Harris is not a good option at all from what I've seen. The 60 Minutes interview had sections that were a car crash - these were then edited by the broadcaster after the fact to make her look less bad?!?

Choice of Walz as running mate seems wild as well, the bloke comes across as a complete berk and his lie about Tiananmen isn't a good look at all. Tried to brush it off as "sometimes I'm a knucklehead". Why are you running for office then?

This is undoubtedly true, given the evidence.

 

However, I'm not sure why, given what Trump did last time round, what his policy platform is now, and what his supporters have gotten up to all the time, that isn't deemed an entirely legitimate position to take.

 

It would be great to have a candidate much more inspirational, thoughtful and empathetic than Harris, but looking at the policy platforms and realising just what the alternative means for a lot of people outside very particular demographics right now and ever single human being in the future, the choice really should be crystal clear. And people cannot, should not, wash their hands of those consequences when they happen by simply saying Harris wasn't "x enough" or "too x".

 

Edit: and as a reminder, this whole thing really shouldn't be a question in the first place as in any decent nation being involved in an attempt to overthrow the results of a free and fair election would end the political career of the person and people involved anyway.

Edited 16 October 2024 by leicsmac

[Sir Steve Howard]

25 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

This is undoubtedly true, given the evidence.

 

However, I'm not sure why, given what Trump did last time round, what his policy platform is now, and what his supporters have gotten up to all the time, that isn't deemed an entirely legitimate position to take.

 

It would be great to have a candidate much more inspirational, thoughtful and empathetic than Harris, but looking at the policy platforms and realising just what the alternative means for a lot of people outside very particular demographics right now and ever single human being in the future, the choice really should be crystal clear. And people cannot, should not, wash their hands of those consequences when they happen by simply saying Harris wasn't "x enough" or "too x".

 

Edit: and as a reminder, this whole thing really shouldn't be a question in the first place as in any decent nation being involved in an attempt to overthrow the results of a free and fair election would end the political career of the person and people involved anyway.

The way Harris is campaigning, you'd think the Republicans are currently in office. I'll change this, I'll change that. You're the ones currently in power.

 

Democrats also adding fuel to the 'unfair' fire with their adamant stance on not requiring voter ID. Can see why they're doing it obviously

Edited 16 October 2024 by Sir Steve Howard

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Sir Steve Howard said:

The way Harris is campaigning, you'd think the Republicans are currently in office. I'll change this, I'll change that. You're the ones currently in power.

 

Yep, and clearly that message is having trouble resonating, given the current polling figures.

 

I just take issue with people looking round at that and then choosing something rather worse overall based on ignorance or malicious short term self interest, and then not taking at least some responsibility for the consequences that do result.

 

People's concerns are legitimate, but I would think it's rather clear Trump is no short term answer to most of them and no long term answer to any of them at all.

 

Edit: I would repeat that I agree a negative "never Trump" message is counterproductive because positivity and honesty should sell better, but for me that still doesn't detract from the facts about consequences.

Edited 16 October 2024 by leicsmac

[Torquay Gunner]

33 minutes ago, Sir Steve Howard said:

The way Harris is campaigning, you'd think the Republicans are currently in office. I'll change this, I'll change that. You're the ones currently in power.

 

Democrats also adding fuel to the 'unfair' fire with their adamant stance on not requiring voter ID. Can see why they're doing it obviously

I think it's fair to say the VP role is largely ceremonial and she thinks differently from Biden on some policy matters, for example on the middle east horror show.  Biden has been pathetic in his dealings with Israel, so like to believe she would be more robust. 

 

Sir Steve Howard said:

Choice of Walz as running mate seems wild as well, the bloke comes across as a complete berk and his lie about Tiananmen isn't a good look at all. Tried to brush it off as "sometimes I'm a knucklehead". Why are you running for office then?

 

I think Walz was chosen to appeal to average middle America and he has had some missteps for sure, but compared to JD Vance he is a decent enough choice. 

 

I don't think Harris/Walz are fantastic, but the alternative is bloody awful. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 16 October 2024 by Torquay Gunner

[Torquay Gunner]

MPH said:

I think. What is a bigger factor is that, and I don’t know why, Trumps vote within the African American population is growing and has been for a while now.. whether it was Biden or Harris. So one must ask the question, why are black people, a traditional monopoly of the Democrats, growing in support for someone who is known by many as being racist? It’s not the Trump fan club the dens are trying to win over it’s the swing voters and their own support.. and it’s not those being misogynistic so I still think it’s inaccurate to blame misogyny for her waning support. She was  never going to get any MAGA votes anyway.

 

Very worrying indeed for the Harris camp. Like you not sure why. 

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

So one must ask the question, why are black people, a traditional monopoly of the Democrats, growing in support for someone who is known by many as being racist?

Could it be that Trump isn't racist? Isn't it just more that he's simply unpleasant to those who don't like him, regardless of colour? 

 

I think many Trump supporters are racist, for sure. But I'm not sold that he is per se. 

[leicsmac]

Just now, Paninistickers said:

Could it be that Trump isn't racist? Isn't it just more that he's simply unpleasant to those who don't like him, regardless of colour? 

 

I think many Trump supporters are racist, for sure. But I'm not sold that he is per se. 

There's an argument to be made for that.

 

Is that really a compelling reason to pick him, and what he and his followers will do, though?

[grobyfox1990]

49 minutes ago, Sir Steve Howard said:

The way Harris is campaigning, you'd think the Republicans are currently in office. I'll change this, I'll change that. You're the ones currently in power.

 

Democrats also adding fuel to the 'unfair' fire with their adamant stance on not requiring voter ID. Can see why they're doing it obviously

Yeh, burger man’s campaigning should be a slam dunk. ‘Were you better off under me or her? Me, ok vote for me and don’t reward the failure of the last four years’ He appears to be slightly ahead in the polls after the initial Harris new manager bump, even despite his dismal campaigning, which makes sense. 
Disingenuous to dictate who to vote for there anyway. I was p1ssed off when channel islanders were aghast at my anyone but Tory voting approach when they didn’t have a clue about the destruction of our country. Not many of us can empathise with the working family man in east lansing, Michigan 

[Nalis]

Say what you want about him but Trump plays the anti establishment card to a tee, maybe that plays into the mindset of those who want change in the US but just see Harris as a different leader/same policies type?

Edited 16 October 2024 by Nalis

[grobyfox1990]

3 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Could it be that Trump isn't racist? Isn't it just more that he's simply unpleasant to those who don't like him, regardless of colour? 

 

I think many Trump supporters are racist, for sure. But I'm not sold that he is per se. 

Yeh I agree. He just likes rich people and hates poor people, regardless of race. He’s too dumb to be genuinely racist imo.

Anyway ofc black people will like him when he’s promoting working level policies like no tax on tips, over time and tax deductible car finance payments 

[leicsmac]

What was the saying? "A lie can go round the world before the truth gets its boots on"?

 

Valuing perception and self-interest over facts and long-term outlook is one of the main reasons people vote for Trump and it leads nowhere good. It's truly sad that things have come to that.

 

Everyone involved should know what Trump is and what he represents. Own voting for him and what that means for other people and the future, rather than using excuses IMO.

Edited 16 October 2024 by leicsmac

[MPH]

52 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Could it be that Trump isn't racist? Isn't it just more that he's simply unpleasant to those who don't like him, regardless of colour? 

 

I think many Trump supporters are racist, for sure. But I'm not sold that he is per se. 

 

 

well, I think it’s a tactic being used for sure by the Dems. The stick to hit him with so to speak.
 

 

And to be fair, those direct quotes of outright racist words are hard to find.

 

 

but his policies for example…. Look at immigration. The Dems will take them as being very racist and that’s how they will shape them to the public. Trump would argue that it’s not immigration he has a problem with per say, but illegal immigration. 

 

 

however to me he still has a very dislikable personality  and seems to treat  people based on  wether they are or value to him, or not. Admittedly that’s a bit different to being outright racist.

 

But he doesn’t help himself with who his  friends are and he’s had some warm words to say to organizations who, in my opinion, have a level of patriotism that spills over into racism.  If im standing next to someone who uses racist words and not only do I NOT denounce them but speak warmly of them, then it could be argued that I’m at least considered racist by association.

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

What was the saying? "A lie can go round the world before the truth gets its boots on"?

 

Valuing perception and self-interest over facts and long-term outlook is one of the main reasons people vote for Trump and it leads nowhere good. It's truly sad that things have come to that.

 

Everyone involved should know what Trump is and what he represents. Own voting for him and what that means for other people and the future, rather than using excuses IMO.

I think that viewpoint comes from the incredibly luck and luxury in having the ability to think long term and existentially. Cory in Broxton, Georgia has nothing but hope in perception and hence trump. 
Why the hell should Cory care about me, anyone else it rising sea levels in pacific islands. The systems and mechanisms of our world aren’t set up for that. Everything is short termist in nature 

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I think that viewpoint comes from the incredibly luck and luxury in having the ability to think long term and existentially. Cory in Broxton, Georgia has nothing but hope in perception and hence trump. 
Why the hell should Cory care about me, anyone else it rising sea levels in pacific islands. The systems and mechanisms of our world aren’t set up for that. Everything is short termist in nature 

Yep, you're absolutely spot on. But that doesn't stop such thinking leading to only one logical outcome.

 

So, obviously privileged as it is, someone has to think of and act on the long game - or everyone, including Cory from Georgia - share in the consequences.

Edited 16 October 2024 by leicsmac