US Presidential Election 2024

[ealingfox]

What are some good, fleshed-out Trump policies then?

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

oh I wasn’t defending them.  Just commenting on the power of the media and their portrayal of people.

 

 

But I will say that very few people opt to vote for someone who isn’t  aligned with what they believe. A form of selfishness in its purest form, so to speak..

I would say that a belief in selflessness and acting upon that belief, as well as voting accordingly, isn't really selfish, even if you're satisfying your own thoughts on the matter while doing so.

[leicsmac]

43 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

What are some good, fleshed-out Trump policies then?

Pointing out that the other side likewise don't have fleshed out policies, no gun law reforms, continuing the revocation of Roe v Wade and looking to target Obgergefell v Hodges among others next, tax cuts and additional security for shooting, sorry, "apprehending" people crossing the border.

 

Oh, and massive fossil fuel subsidies.

 

Edit: one more thing; putting an antivaxxer in charge of the FDA.

Edited 28 October 2024 by leicsmac

[Otis]

13 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Oh, and massive fossil fuel subsidies

How does this compare to renewable energy Subsidies?

 

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

I don't think it's a deliberate thing. I know it's a convenient bogeyman but I think a lot of it is just down to social media making us more narcissistic and confrontational. Nobody would really speak to someone face to face the way they speak on social media, but for a lot of people something like twitter has become their primary daily interaction, certainly when it comes to politics. As a result you get stuff like this:

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2505464/democratic-organizer-jordan-bowen-faces-backlash-for-screaming-at-child-during-kamala-harris-rally

That's a great point. The herding principles of the basic man on the street will see some loon on Twitter shouting about something, so they'll shout about the same thing. They'll have no way of empathising with Americans, or Brits facing the budget on Wednesday, but have formed an opinion on it and start shouting about it.

Whereas if you met a yank or a Brit on the street you'd likely empathetically listen to which way they are voting, and would not be so stupid as to think you know better about their life than they do.

That link is nuts, just shows the only winner in all this is media $$$

[grobyfox1990]

39 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

What are some good, fleshed-out Trump policies then?

No tax on tips, social security and overtime. Tax deductible interest payments if you have a car on finance. Policies designed for the working family battered by inflation

Still waiting to hear any coherent reason as to vote for Harris.

I fear my wait will go on too long as there are 8 days to go.

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Otis said:

How does this compare to renewable energy Subsidies?

 

One will guarantee the future of civilisation going forward, one will not.

 

Not sure about the figures for each, but given what the human cost is, perhaps that might be less important?

 

2 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

No tax on tips, social security and overtime. Tax deductible interest payments if you have a car on finance. Policies designed for the working family battered by inflation

Still waiting to hear any coherent reason as to vote for Harris.

I fear my wait will go on too long as there are 8 days to go.

Women's rights to choose and environmental policy, for two, not enough?

 

I wish I shared your optimism about the market somehow saving the world and not leaving hundreds of millions of people to suffer and die.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

 and yet amazingly there are many highly intelligent people at the hospital I work for that Vote for Trump. Surgeons, Drs..

 

Dont fall for the media  version of Trump supporters as all being stupid. That might be how they are portrayed, but it’s certainly not the case..

I would love to know the reasoning. America is a strange strange place... whilst they might be smart enough to be a brain surgeon, in America it's so warped around religion, the constitutions and things like guns etc. An incredibly intelligent person can also come across, to us like a total moron because they are a proper bible basher, or gun loving numpty. 

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, MPH said:

 

Personally, I don’t understand the idea that if you feel like you are not able to vote for The Dems that you must vote for Trump. How can one’s political leanings swing so much? Can’t you just  not vote? It backs up what I said previously about policies being more important than morality ( to some Americans)

 

 

I’d really like to see the emergence of a credible 3rd major political party in the States. That would obviously rock the other two to the core and would hopefully re-shale their focus…

It all depends on whether you think you’ll get the chance to vote again in a free and fair election. I don’t think Americans can take this for granted if Trump gets in. Whatever you think of him as maybe just a joker or a clown, probably quite incompetent at being a real bad guy, he’s got some really dark people around him who might be more competent.

 

I guess we’ll see.

[Torquay Gunner]

6 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

No tax on tips, social security and overtime. Tax deductible interest payments if you have a car on finance. Policies designed for the working family battered by inflation

Still waiting to hear any coherent reason as to vote for Harris.

I fear my wait will go on too long as there are 8 days to go.

Here’s half a dozen for you.

 

Restoring Roe v Wade and defending reproductive freedom

Lower child-care costs, which are hugely expensive, for low income families and proposing low to middle income families can receive up to $6,000 during 1st year of their baby’s life

Pledged to continue to negotiate lower prescription drug prices for Medicare patients and partner states to cancel medical debt for millions of people

She also supports raising minimum wage and eliminate taxes on tips

Ban on assault rifles and introduction of universal background checks

Supreme court reforms and creating term limits for the justices

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[leicsmac]

Another observation that I hope I'm wrong on:

 

Given the depth of feeling and polarisation and because the result may well be close, there could well be serious unrest or worse in the US within the next decade.

[grobyfox1990]

3 minutes ago, Torquay Gunner said:

Here’s half a dozen for you.

 

Restoring Roe v Wade and defending reproductive freedom

Lower child-care costs, which are hugely expensive, for low income families and proposing low to middle income families can receive up to $6,000 during 1st year of their baby’s life

Pledged to continue to negotiate lower prescription drug prices for Medicare patients and partner states to cancel medical debt for millions of people

She also supports raising minimum wage and eliminate taxes on tips

Ban on assault rifles and introduction of universal background checks

Supreme court reforms and creating term limits for the justices

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'Pledges', 'defends' and 'supports' - this is all empty rhetoric.

I'll ask again, it's not that difficult, fleshed out hard policies to vote for Harris.

She is also campaigning on being pro-gun so point 5 is largely mute.

[grobyfox1990]

24 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

One will guarantee the future of civilisation going forward, one will not.

 

Not sure about the figures for each, but given what the human cost is, perhaps that might be less important?

 

Women's rights to choose and environmental policy, for two, not enough?

 

I wish I shared your optimism about the market somehow saving the world and not leaving hundreds of millions of people to suffer and die.

This is totally vacuous. 'I will save the environment.' How? 

[Torquay Gunner]

1 minute ago, grobyfox1990 said:

'Pledges', 'defends' and 'supports' - this is all empty rhetoric.

I'll ask again, it's not that difficult, fleshed out hard policies to vote for Harris.

She is also campaigning on being pro-gun so point 5 is largely mute.

Well unlike Trump I don't think she is pathological liar, but moot point if she doesn't win

I have listed six policies she is running on, if you don't believe them that’s up to you

Since she carries a handgun she has to be pro-gun, but wants to limit the more heavy duty weapons. It’s the US and you have to be realistic about gun control

[Trav Le Bleu]

38 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

No tax on tips, social security and overtime. Tax deductible interest payments if you have a car on finance. Policies designed for the working family battered by inflation

Still waiting to hear any coherent reason as to vote for Harris.

I fear my wait will go on too long as there are 8 days to go.

She's not Trump is a perfectly coherent reason.

 

I get that the vote isn't just for the person, it's the party, but even still... she's not Trump.

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

This is totally vacuous. 'I will save the environment.' How? 

... by sticking to pledges made at various conferences?

 

I'm not sure I get the reasoning here - because there's no absolutely detailed road map, the Dems are as bad as the Repubs on this matter?

 

Sorry mate, but that doesn't strike me as good faith and I know you're smart enough to be acutely aware of both the problem and the consequences that will result from it.

[grobyfox1990]

4 minutes ago, Torquay Gunner said:

Well unlike Trump I don't think she is pathological liar, but moot point if she doesn't win

I have listed six policies she is running on, if you don't believe them that’s up to you

Since she carries a handgun she has to be pro-gun, but wants to limit the more heavy duty weapons. It’s the US and you have to be realistic about gun control

 

3 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

She's not Trump is a perfectly coherent reason.

 

I get that the vote isn't just for the person, it's the party, but even still... she's not Trump.

 

Just now, leicsmac said:

... by sticking to pledges made at various conferences?

 

I'm not sure I get the reasoning here - because there's no absolutely detailed road map, the Dems are as bad as the Repubs on this matter?

 

Sorry mate, but that doesn't strike me as good faith and I know you're smart enough to be acutely aware of both the problem and the consequences that will result from it.

I have not seen any coherent environmental policy advocated by Harris away from 'we'll save the environment.' I might be missing it. The USA could be really bold and lead the transition, as Biden did with the genius IRA, but Harris is not. She will make no tangible difference to 2030 targets. 

This has genuinely been a very good back n forth between us all, what social media for adults should be used for! As I said earlier, we should whack some beers at one of the xmas home matches with atmosphere thread Guesty

[Torquay Gunner]

8 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

 

 

I have not seen any coherent environmental policy advocated by Harris away from 'we'll save the environment.' I might be missing it. The USA could be really bold and lead the transition, as Biden did with the genius IRA, but Harris is not. She will make no tangible difference to 2030 targets. 

This has genuinely been a very good back n forth between us all, what social media for adults should be used for! As I said earlier, we should whack some beers at one of the xmas home matches with atmosphere thread Guesty

I tend to not go to many Leicester home matches. 😂

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

 

 

I have not seen any coherent environmental policy advocated by Harris away from 'we'll save the environment.' I might be missing it. The USA could be really bold and lead the transition, as Biden did with the genius IRA, but Harris is not. She will make no tangible difference to 2030 targets. 

This has genuinely been a very good back n forth between us all, what social media for adults should be used for! As I said earlier, we should whack some beers at one of the xmas home matches with atmosphere thread Guesty

I think Dem policy on this matter is infinitely better than Repub and that's obvious in intent and at least stated policy by simply giving a shit, but fair enough.

 

If Cooper is gone by Xmas, I might consider that offer.

[ealingfox]

59 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

No tax on tips, social security and overtime. Tax deductible interest payments if you have a car on finance. Policies designed for the working family battered by inflation

Still waiting to hear any coherent reason as to vote for Harris.

I fear my wait will go on too long as there are 8 days to go.

 

I said fleshed-out policies. The coherent reason to vote for Harris is that she is the only candidate with a chance of winning that hasn't previously incited a violent insurrection in response to losing an election. 

[Babylon]

27 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I have not seen any coherent environmental policy advocated by Harris away from 'we'll save the environment.' I might be missing it.

At this stage I can only presume you haven't even attempted to read their manifestos. 

[grobyfox1990]

7 minutes ago, Babylon said:

At this stage I can only presume you haven't even attempted to read their manifestos. 

At this stage I know you have not read the manifesto, what is contained in section 5, have no idea what policy for a successful transition means or probably what Paris 2030 even is

[Otis]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

1 hour ago, Otis said:

How does this compare to renewable energy Subsidies?

 

One will guarantee the future of civilisation going forward, one will not.

 

Not sure about the figures for each, but given what the human cost is, perhaps that might be less important?

Come on now...

You seem to know that fossil fuels are subsidised but don't know the figures for renewables, I find that odd.

 

Renewables keep being touted as the cheaper alternative, but at the same time requiring double the fossil fuel subsidies.  If you ask struggling families which they would prefer, you can guess the answer.

Fossil fuels will be needed until viable alternatives are readily available.i.e renewables and nuclear. 

 

 

[grobyfox1990]

1 minute ago, Otis said:

Come on now...

You seem to know that fossil fuels are subsidised but don't know the figures for renewables, I find that odd.

 

Renewables keep being touted as the cheaper alternative, but at the same time requiring double the fossil fuel subsidies.  If you ask struggling families which they would prefer, you can guess the answer.

Fossil fuels will be needed until viable alternatives are readily available.i.e renewables and nuclear. 

 

 

I can tell you. The wildly successful Biden IRA has created over 300k jobs in renewable energy with over $200bn in private investment. Tax credits generated over $8bn in savings for American families. USA primary energy mix has varied hugely and wind is almost doubling per year. This obvs creates more energy security, something we know is quite important after the events of Feb 2022.

The total cost of the IRA for 10 years is expected to be $780bn. Drop in the ocean compared to the huge riches that can be made from the transition 

 

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Otis said:

How does this compare to renewable energy Subsidies?

 

 

well it could be claimed that one is encouraging us to embrace the future and the other is encouraging us to not let go of the past…