TheHonourableOne Posted 6 February 2006 Posted 6 February 2006 Freedom of speech vs. sacred religious beliefs Or as it is now known... Everyone v Islam
The Reverend Posted 6 February 2006 Posted 6 February 2006 Freedom of speech vs. sacred religious beliefs Or as it is now known... Everyone v Islam I dare not share my poinion on this for fear of getting into trouble. All i will say that the behaviour of those muslims was ridiculous. They should have all been shot as a way of showing that this country will not stand for it (a bit far out, but desperate times call for desperate measures). What would have happened if we did that in their country? There would have been murders, thats what. Our ancestors fought in the war to preserve the right of freedom of speech and theses cu*nts come and take this away? Well they can **** off. I am not a racist, religionist or whatever, but this makes my blood boil.
Lemon Harpic Posted 6 February 2006 Posted 6 February 2006 Freedom of speech vs. sacred religious beliefs Or as it is now known... Everyone v Islam It's not just Islam or Muslims. I seem to remember that in this very city a goth kid was ordered by the cops to remove a T-shirt that read 'Jesus is a ****'. The problem as I see it is that the absurd toss on which these religions are based cannot stand up to even the most basic critical scrutiny. Look at Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Islam or whatever rationally and it's clear to see that they are all have at their heart feeble-minded nonsense in place of real answers about our existance. That's the reason why free thought, free debate, free speech and free expression are a huge threat to organised religion. They'd all rather their followers did as they were told and stopped asking awkward questions.
Hullfox Posted 6 February 2006 Posted 6 February 2006 Just heard on the news that the bloke who dressed up like a suicide bomber at the protests in London is out on licence after serving half a sentence for Drugs offences. How very Islamic I'm sure.
TrickyTrev Posted 6 February 2006 Posted 6 February 2006 what an absolute load of crap - Israel has existed for 40+ years what do u think they should do pack up and leave now? They've moved out of Gaza and the West Bank (land which they seized when invaded by three muslim states) what more can they do? Poor old Palestine eh how many suicide bombings have Israel had to put up with its 7/7 more or less every week for them They moved some people out of the West Bank. They still occupy huge areas of Palestinian land. There is still no Palestinian state. A whole race of people have a lifeitme of being a refugee to look forward to. Any Isreali govenment that tries to concede the illigeally occipied land will be voted out instantly. The one man, Ariel Sharon (who is a ****), with any chance of doing anything about the situation is a vegetable. As a reult of this focked up situation the people of Isreal have to live in the fear of suicide attacks all the time. As If the Middle East wasn't focked up enough we have invaded and occuiped both Iran's neighbours and as a result they have voted in a hard line fundamentalist nutcase that wants to "wipe Israel of the map." We are denying them their legal right ot have nuclear energey because our foreign policy over the last few years has shown we are tootheless in dealing with countries that really have nuclear weapons. Aka North Korea. If I were Iran I knows what I'd be building. Now we have people who think the shining glory of freedom of speech is depicting Mohammed as a terrorist and peopel who think that the way to retaliate against this is beheading those who offend Islam. The world is focked.
TrickyTrev Posted 6 February 2006 Posted 6 February 2006 Indians have nuclear weapons and the Iranians do not, yet. As for the Israelis they probably do having stolen the technology from the Americans. <_< Iarael is thought to have a nuclear arsenal the size of Britains. It is hard to say as they are not signed up to the Non-Proliferation Act. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...nuclear_weapons
Manwell Pablo Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 Just heard on the news that the bloke who dressed up like a suicide bomber at the protests in London is out on licence after serving half a sentence for Drugs offences. How very Islamic I'm sure. Yes, how very Islamic. In my opinion people who want to make a big deal out of certain things that offend them, peope who want to blow them selves and/or others up due to the fact that certain things offend them, aren't religious in any way. Their just lunatics. Lunatics who want to take advantage of somthing that can be concieved as slightly racist or anti muslim, and use it to their advantage to gain suppourt. Basically make somthing out of nothing. Basically to insight anti Western/American/European or dare I say it white feeling. Don't ever take these people as Idoits because that is one thing they are not. Its the bigger picture these people want to protest about not one off incidents. Let us remember that the Koran doesn't condone sucide nor murder, or even violence for that matter. Well that didn't matter to the the three Asain's that tried to fill my skull in Huddersfield, and I am sorry if this is perseived as a racist comment, but as it was 2am and they weren't at all drunk I presume they were Muslim. I will never forget that I had asians following me in the street calling me and my friend rasicts, after the three of them had been filled in. Well if i'm a rascist for defending myself then I guess I am. Again it didn't seem to matter to 15 Muslims who put my flatmate in hospital with 18 stichest, and me in with three. It what can basically be described as a mugging. Not to mention we had a car pull up outside our house, with people shouting " White Bitch get the **** over here now so I can fu**king do u" Im not calling all Asains rascist at all, however I will say that people who call these protesting types a minority aren't exactly right. I will accept that at least 60-75% of all Muslims have no problems with any type of colour or relgion At the same time I will not except that it is a 0.01% of their population that is the problem. Its basically the same as the white community I would say that at least one in four people are Racist in the white community, but don't need nor want to go out and hurt other people of other creeds and colours because they don't need to. However since the war started a significant minority of Asain youths have started to become very anti white, and they have wanted to fight back. It's silly protests like these, that, TBH, are seen as a reason to "kick off" by those who actually go out and protest, that lead to such bad racial and religious hatred. How many times have we seen the british flag burnt? In fact F**K that how many times have we seen British citizens beheaded on national TV? do you see Klu Klux clan member walking the streets when that happened, No. Did we burn down the Pakistan embassy in London..no. I'm sorry to say it but there are certain sections of the Muslim community in England (and the world) that seem to have a massive chip on their shoulder and it's about time that people realised its not racist to point this fact out. If this post is seen as un P.C or rascist in any way I applogise. I mean no offense to any Asian readers who geuninley have no problem with people of other colours. I've been a victim of rasicm more then once, and bealive it or not it happens to white people too.
shen Posted 7 February 2006 Author Posted 7 February 2006 I'd like to point out to people who might not know this, that the initial reason for the satirical drawing, was in fact that a debate about freedom of speech had been taking place here at the time, and this paper were actually testing 'how far' they could go under the banner of freedom of speech. This just adds to the irony of it all. I tend to very much agree with davieG's comments in this thread, and while you're pointing out several true things, Steven, I don't feel that they are the reason for this vileful reaction. I feel the general poverty, the worsening of the economic and social situation in most Arab Muslim countries, the increasing alienation of rest of the World, and the jealousy towards the Western world are the primary reasons for this vented anger. People seem to be forgetting that Muslims hate eachother, to a degree that's almost worse than the hate towards the Western World. I don't think many were agaisnt the removal of Saddam in Iraq, or the removal of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan for that matter. It's the mess that were currently creating down there, that probably angers many people...
moseeds Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 I'm Muslim. According to many posters my intellect is lacking. That maybe the case, but for the sake of rationality, I find it ridiculous to believe our existence came about through chance and then hypothesized about through conjecture. The (few) protestors marching on Friday were complete pratts and should be shot. There weren't many of them (looked less than 50 on the news) of those from the "al-Muhajiroun" group. The sort of people that join their philosophy are those that are lost in life, like drug dealers for example. This is a known problem. They moved some people out of the West Bank. They still occupy huge areas of Palestinian land. There is still no Palestinian state.A whole race of people have a lifeitme of being a refugee to look forward to. Any Isreali govenment that tries to concede the illigeally occipied land will be voted out instantly. The one man, Ariel Sharon (who is a ****), with any chance of doing anything about the situation is a vegetable. cry.gif As a reult of this focked up situation the people of Isreal have to live in the fear of suicide attacks all the time. cry.gif As If the Middle East wasn't focked up enough we have invaded and occuiped both Iran's neighbours and as a result they have voted in a hard line fundamentalist nutcase that wants to "wipe Israel of the map." We are denying them their legal right ot have nuclear energey because our foreign policy over the last few years has shown we are tootheless in dealing with countries that really have nuclear weapons. Aka North Korea. If I were Iran I knows what I'd be building. Now we have people who think the shining glory of freedom of speech is depicting Mohammed as a terrorist and peopel who think that the way to retaliate against this is beheading those who offend Islam. cry.gif The world is focked. You and Steven have hit the nail on the head. Using the cartoons as a promotional tool for Freedom of Speech was a thin cover for the real intent - to provoke. If in Muhammad's p.b.u.h place they put Bin Laden for example, I don't think anybody would care. It is quite obvious the pictures were drawn solely to agitate Muslims to the predicatable point it is now. What the publishers seem to have conveniently forgotten is the world is not made up of just Danish people but funnily enough over 1.5 Billion Muslims who may not share their brand of humour. We are constantly told we are more closer than ever due to globalisation. To then be surprised and shocked at the reaction is naive if it wasn't so brilliantly planned. They need to be stopped, and controlled. Like in every religion and race they're are good and bad but this religion is full of hate and violence. In this country they are putting fear into the life of british people and it isn't acceptable. Hang on, I'm sure I can hear an echo from somewhere in Iraq going something like this: They need to be stopped, and controlled. Like in every nation there are good and bad but this nation is full of hate and violence. In this country they are putting fear into the life of Iraqi people and it isn't acceptable. it's only takes 2 minuites to reallise what a load of rubish the religion islam is, how far fetched it is, and how much prophesised has been flase. Fair enough. The Quran clearly states there is no compulsion in religion. They way I look at it is though, and this may sound racist, but islam is not a traditional English religion, it is one that has only been around within the last century. So basically people have been coming to this country and terrorising it's people. A lot of those people in London this week are not British but they come to our country and scare the shit out of innocent people, It's a disgrace.I wouldn't dream of going to another country and treating it the way they do to England. People have not been coming to this country and terrorising it. Only within the last century The British were going to other countries and then scared the sh*t out of those people. Funny that isn't it - about Karma and all that - maybe thats just some meaningless religious drivel . I think many people need a history lesson before they start moving their mouths into action. The "anger" displayed by Middle Eastern countries towards ours is not something that was born overnight or something they read in the Quran. It is history that brings us to our present plight. There are many people alive that can remember when the British Army was last in Iraq (in early parts of 20th C). There are many people alive that can remember when the Israeli tanks rolled over their farm, their livelihood and built new appartments for someone else to live in in the 40's. I know for a fact not one member of this board would happily let a German or Frenchman usurp their land or house and sit back without a fight. What has all this got to do with the cartoon. Well to many Muslims, it is another episode of "the West" slapping the Muslims firmly where it hurts - the centre figure of their religion. It's not the first time Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h has been ridiculed by a non-Muslim - English literature has tonnes of it from centuries ago. But in this sensitive day and age, the cartoon serves to remind many people what they had always thought - that the "War on Terror" really is a war on Islam. The politics of the Middle East are far too complex for me to even try and understand.What I would say is that the IAEA probably don't have any reason to want to inspect India and Israel, ok we all know they have an active nuclear program but I'd guess it's a far cry from what the Iranians are trying to do! India and Israel are American allies. Maybe that has something to do with it. After all, I don't think Britain really cares if Iran has a bomb or not, do you?
Manwell Pablo Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 I'd like to point out to people who might not know this, that the initial reason for the satirical drawing, was in fact that a debate about freedom of speech had been taking place here at the time, and this paper were actually testing 'how far' they could go under the banner of freedom of speech. This just adds to the irony of it all. I tend to very much agree with davieG's comments in this thread, and while you're pointing out several true things, Steven, I don't feel that they are the reason for this vileful reaction. I feel the general poverty, the worsening of the economic and social situation in most Arab Muslim countries, the increasing alienation of rest of the World, and the jealousy towards the Western world are the primary reasons for this vented anger. People seem to be forgetting that Muslims hate eachother, to a degree that's almost worse than the hate towards the Western World. I don't think many were agaisnt the removal of Saddam in Iraq, or the removal of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan for that matter. It's the mess that were currently creating down there, that probably angers many people... you intially came on here and claimed you were scared of terriost attacks, well most of us live in England, and we have a big red bulls eye on our back. So I would suggest you stop telling us how worried you are about your country being targeted. Trust me it could be worse you could live here. this debate about the drawings will pass, we will be tagets for much longer.
moseeds Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 I feel the general poverty, the worsening of the economic and social situation in most Arab Muslim countries, the increasing alienation of rest of the World, and the jealousy towards the Western world are the primary reasons for this vented anger. I agree with this too. But I do not think it is the primary reason. There are conditions in the rest of Africa and in many other pockets of the world that are worse, but they are not blowing up bombs out of jealousy. In fact, it can be argued validly the West has plundered Africa for centuries and as a result African nations have a greater case for "jealousy". Therefore there has to be another additonal "Catalyst" to this equation - and that is the recent history of the last century and in particular since WWII.
Babylon Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 I'm not that up on religion, but just to clarify... Cartoon = Bad Crack Dealing = Good
Random Burglar Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 Showing the prophet in a caricature was offensive in itself, but the way he was depicted was just disgraceful. If that was their aim then they should be dealt with accordingly, if not somebody should have done their research beforehand.
IDEA OR IKEA Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 Showing the prophet in a caricature was offensive in itself, but the way he was depicted was just disgraceful. If that was their aim then they should be dealt with accordingly, if not somebody should have done their research beforehand.
Strokes Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 Showing the prophet in a caricature was offensive in itself, but the way he was depicted was just disgraceful. If that was their aim then they should be dealt with accordingly, if not somebody should have done their research beforehand. I find lot's of thing's offensive, doesn't give me the right to Threaten to kill people
shen Posted 7 February 2006 Author Posted 7 February 2006 you intially came on here and claimed you were scared of terriost attacks, well most of us live in England, and we have a big red bulls eye on our back. So I would suggest you stop telling us how worried you are about your country being targeted. Trust me it could be worse you could live here. this debate about the drawings will pass, we will be tagets for much longer. What an absolutely pointless remark! Why are you trying to ridicule mine and most Danes' fear? Are you saying that because you've been subjected to a terrorist attack before, I shouldn't be as scared as people in England?
Random Burglar Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 I find lot's of thing's offensive, doesn't give me the right to Threaten to kill people We are talking religion and respect, not politics.
shen Posted 7 February 2006 Author Posted 7 February 2006 Showing the prophet in a caricature was offensive in itself, but the way he was depicted was just disgraceful. If that was their aim then they should be dealt with accordingly, if not somebody should have done their research beforehand. The strange thing is that from all the muslims I've heard speaking about this, they didn't even mention the fact Muhammad had a bomb on his head, but were only concerned about the fact he was depicted
Head Honcho Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 Iarael is thought to have a nuclear arsenal the size of Britains. It is hard to say as they are not signed up to the Non-Proliferation Act. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...nuclear_weapons .....and so have done nothing wrong to warrant inspection!
Random Burglar Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 The strange thing is that from all the muslims I've heard speaking about this, they didn't even mention the fact Muhammad had a bomb on his head, but were only concerned about the fact he was depicted Being made into a cartoon is one of the most disrespectful and offensive ways to depict the Prophet.
shen Posted 7 February 2006 Author Posted 7 February 2006 Being made into a cartoon is one of the most disrespectful and offensive ways to depict the Prophet. Am I wrong when saying that Muslims would not have had any grounds to be offended (ignoring the bomb for a sec) if the face wasn't depicted, but only his body was? Even though it's highly offensive to depict the Prophet, surely the fact he has a bomb on his head SHOULD be more offensive?!
Head Honcho Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 QUOTE(shen) I feel the general poverty, the worsening of the economic and social situation in most Arab Muslim countries, the increasing alienation of rest of the World, and the jealousy towards the Western world are the primary reasons for this vented anger Sorry but that is bollocks, poverty has nothing to do with it! Western society is Islams biggest enemy, not because of what we do here in the west , but because of what young Muslims might do in the future, and that is to shun Islam in favour of going out and enjoying themselves and doing what they want to do and not what they are brainwashed to do by religious leaders from a young age!
shen Posted 7 February 2006 Author Posted 7 February 2006 QUOTE(shen) I feel the general poverty, the worsening of the economic and social situation in most Arab Muslim countries, the increasing alienation of rest of the World, and the jealousy towards the Western world are the primary reasons for this vented anger Sorry but that is bollocks, poverty has nothing to do with it! Western society is Islams biggest enemy, not because of what we do here in the west , but because of what young Muslims might do in the future, and that is to shun Islam in favour of going out and enjoying themselves and doing what they want to do and not what they are brainwashed to do by religious leaders from a young age! So who do you think is protesting?
Head Honcho Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 So who do you think is protesting? Well the one's protesting in Central London didn't exactly look as if they were in Poverty. Admittedly a lot of them were young, but for them it was just an excuse to cause trouble! It's the same with all protests 50% of the people at them don't give a shit what they are protesting for.
Head Honcho Posted 7 February 2006 Posted 7 February 2006 Just heard on the news that the bloke who dressed up like a suicide bomber at the protests in London is out on licence after serving half a sentence for Drugs offences. How very Islamic I'm sure. Most of the smack and charlie dealers around here have the same profile as our friendly mock suicide bomber!
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