Freedom of speech vs. sacred religious beliefs

[shen]

Well the one's protesting in Central London didn't exactly look as if they were in Poverty.

Admittedly a lot of them were young, but for them it was just an excuse to cause trouble!

It's the same with all protests 50% of the people at them don't give a shit what they are protesting for.

Oh ok, I wasn't talking about the protests in London though

[Head Honcho]

Oh ok, I wasn't talking about the protests in London though

I'm just getting off my High Horse now Shen

[Sparky]

it does not help the matter when key figures in the muslim world are coming out to say "1 day islam will rule the world!"

whats that saying to all other faiths

[Lemon Harpic]

My avatar has probably earned myself a place on your ignore list, moseeds, but there is one point I'd like to make.

But in this sensitive day and age, the cartoon serves to remind many people what they had always thought - that the "War on Terror" really is a war on Islam.

Saudi Arabia is a Islamic country, but it's also one of the US's closest allies in the "War on terror". The same goes for Pakistan, the Islamic country which caught Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and handed him over to the Americans. The Northern Alliance who received so much US support in Afghanistan was also a Muslim organisation.

15 of the hijackers from September 11, 2001 were from Saudi Arabia. The War on Terror may not have been about terrorism, but it's not a war on Islam either.

[Manwell Pablo]

Well the one's protesting in Central London didn't exactly look as if they were in Poverty.

Admittedly a lot of them were young, but for them it was just an excuse to cause trouble!

It's the same with all protests 50% of the people at them don't give a shit what they are protesting for.

the words nail and head spring to my mind.

[Manwell Pablo]

What an absolutely pointless remark! Why are you trying to ridicule mine and most Danes' fear? Are you saying that because you've been subjected to a terrorist attack before, I shouldn't be as scared as people in England?

I don't even remember typing that, had a few to many shandys last night.

I think the general point I was getting at there was, it could be worse, you could live here.

[shen]

I don't even remember typing that, had a few to many shandys last night.

I think the general point I was getting at there was, it could be worse, you could live here.

In vino veritas as they said back in the Roman days

I guess it would be worse living in the UK but were in more immediate danger of terrorist attacks as we speak...

[Lemon Harpic]

In vino veritas as they said back in the Roman days

I guess it would be worse living in the UK but were in more immediate danger of terrorist attacks as we speak...

We're on page five of this thread, and nobody has tried to shoehorn in the Shakespeare quote "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." yet.

[Head Honcho]

We're on page five of this thread, and nobody has tried to shoehorn in the Shakespeare quote "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." yet.

I was going to say wtf has Hamlet got to do with it, but then I realised that this turn of phrase is also used to describe a dodgy situation, so good analogy

......and well done for shoehorning it in

[Lemon Harpic]

I was going to say wtf has Hamlet got to do with it, but then I realised that this turn of phrase is also used to describe a dodgy situation, so good analogy

......and well done for shoehorning it in

I was just thinking about the boycott of Danish goods. As far as I can tell all Denmark produces is bacon and pornography, neither of which would sell well in Muslim countries anyway.

Did anyone else boycott Danish goods after Kim Milton Neilsen's disgraceful refereeing of the England-Argentina match in France '98? I'm still bitter about it the ****ing pr*ck.

[wonderboy]

I was just thinking about the boycott of Danish goods. As far as I can tell all Denmark produces is bacon and pornography, neither of which would sell well in Muslim countries anyway.

Did anyone else boycott Danish goods after Kim Milton Neilsen's disgraceful refereeing of the England-Argentina match in France '98? I'm still bitter about it the ****ing pr*ck.

yes i boycotted porn but ended up giving in after about half hour

[Gamesmaster]

Should newspaper cartoons that insult politicians, footballers or celebrity`s, be banned?

[shen]

I was just thinking about the boycott of Danish goods. As far as I can tell all Denmark produces is bacon and pornography, neither of which would sell well in Muslim countries anyway.

Did anyone else boycott Danish goods after Kim Milton Neilsen's disgraceful refereeing of the England-Argentina match in France '98? I'm still bitter about it the ****ing pr*ck.

And dairy products

We produce porn?

And Kim Milton is a fine referee, blame your brainless Beckham

[TrickyTrev]

.....and so have done nothing wrong to warrant inspection!

True, but If I were Iranian and Syrian I'd be shit scared about the prospect of extremists (well I should say more extreme) getting in power in Israel; Wouldn't you?

For me it doesn't take a genius to work out why a bunch of nutters keep getting elected.

[Hullfox]

Based on the outrage caused by the cartoons, I have decided to scrap my plans for an Islamic version of Father Ted

[Steven]

Belgian radio reported this morining that the Danish Newspaper that printed the Mohammed cartoon turned down a cartoon of Christ given a "satirical twist" some two years ago on the basis that it might offend. The words used on Belgian radio were that the readers would not appreciate it.

[Lemon Harpic]

And dairy products

Oh yeah, I forgot about Lurpak!

We produce porn?

Erm, so I've heard...

And Kim Milton is a fine referee, blame your brainless Beckham

How can I blame Beckham for two dodgy penalty calls (at least they cancelled one another out, but it doesn't reflect well on the Vild Med Dans star to make so many bad decisions), or for disallowing Sol Campbell's perfectly valid goal, or for missing a blatant handball in the penalty area by Javier Zanetti?

Kim Milton Nielsen had a stinker of a game that day, the wrongful red card was only part of it.

[shen]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Lurpak!

Erm, so I've heard...

How can I blame Beckham for two dodgy penalty calls (at least they cancelled one another out, but it doesn't reflect well on the Vild Med Dans star to make so many bad decisions), or for disallowing Sol Campbell's perfectly valid goal, or for missing a blatant handball in the penalty area by Javier Zanetti?

Kim Milton Nielsen had a stinker of a game that day, the wrongful red card was only part of it.

They all have stinkers once in a while, even the 'great' Collina... He's had more excellent games than poor ones. Thinking about it though, Urs Meier had a good game in Portugal 2004, but the English were the only ones to disagree

[moseeds]

My avatar has probably earned myself a place on your ignore list, moseeds, but there is one point I'd like to make.

Saudi Arabia is a Islamic country, but it's also one of the US's closest allies in the "War on terror". The same goes for Pakistan, the Islamic country which caught Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and handed him over to the Americans. The Northern Alliance who received so much US support in Afghanistan was also a Muslim organisation.

15 of the hijackers from September 11, 2001 were from Saudi Arabia. The War on Terror may not have been about terrorism, but it's not a war on Islam either.

Yes you are completely correct. The support by these governments for America has been the central tenet of Bin Laden's claims for injustice. The original reason given by Bin Laden and friends for doing what they were several years ago is because they wanted American troops out of the gulf and additionally Israel out of Palestine.

However, I did say the *people* which does not necessarily mean the government. In the same way, American foreign policy does not reflect completely reflect the administrations policy. 15 of the hijackers were Saudi Arabian. Then the War on Terror's first target should surely have been Saudi Arabia if you think about this logically. The Saudi regime is scared of Bin Laden and Al-Qaida because it could mean the end of their power. After all, the Saud family's own history shows they came to power through the same doctrtine as Bin Laden - so they are experts in knowing what can be achieved. Pakistan can't control much of her land. For example, the area which borders Afghanistan, NorthWest Frontier Province, is not governed from Islamabad in practice, so are many other parts of the country such as Balochistan, etc. They have no choice but to join US in trying to atleast exert some influence in these areas for the first time since independence. Add to that US aid increasing dramatically and the Pakistani government's principles go flying oout of the window.

The Northern Alliance is not seen as a Muslim organisation by many other Muslims across the world because they are in the majority of the Shia sect - and are therefore classed as non-muslims by many.

(BTW - The Northern Alliance is now upping the opium production (see BBC news from few days back) among other ills. See crack cocaine problems rise again in the US and Europe.)

And no, you aren't on my block list! I like a bit of banter! Thanks, bye

[Dr The Singh]

Yes, how very Islamic.

In my opinion people who want to make a big deal out of certain things that offend them, peope who want to blow them selves and/or others up due to the fact that certain things offend them, aren't religious in any way. Their just lunatics.

Lunatics who want to take advantage of somthing that can be concieved as slightly racist or anti muslim, and use it to their advantage to gain suppourt. Basically make somthing out of nothing. Basically to insight anti Western/American/European or dare I say it white feeling. Don't ever take these people as Idoits because that is one thing they are not. Its the bigger picture these people want to protest about not one off incidents.

Let us remember that the Koran doesn't condone sucide nor murder, or even violence for that matter.

Well that didn't matter to the the three Asain's that tried to fill my skull in Huddersfield, and I am sorry if this is perseived as a racist comment, but as it was 2am and they weren't at all drunk I presume they were Muslim. I will never forget that I had asians following me in the street calling me and my friend rasicts, after the three of them had been filled in. Well if i'm a rascist for defending myself then I guess I am.

Again it didn't seem to matter to 15 Muslims who put my flatmate in hospital with 18 stichest, and me in with three. It what can basically be described as a mugging.

Not to mention we had a car pull up outside our house, with people shouting " White Bitch get the **** over here now so I can fu**king do u"

Im not calling all Asains rascist at all, however I will say that people who call these protesting types a minority aren't exactly right.

I will accept that at least 60-75% of all Muslims have no problems with any type of colour or relgion

At the same time I will not except that it is a 0.01% of their population that is the problem. Its basically the same as the white community I would say that at least one in four people are Racist in the white community, but don't need nor want to go out and hurt other people of other creeds and colours because they don't need to.

However since the war started a significant minority of Asain youths have started to become very anti white, and they have wanted to fight back.

It's silly protests like these, that, TBH, are seen as a reason to "kick off" by those who actually go out and protest, that lead to such bad racial and religious hatred. How many times have we seen the british flag burnt? In fact F**K that how many times have we seen British citizens beheaded on national TV? do you see Klu Klux clan member walking the streets when that happened, No. Did we burn down the Pakistan embassy in London..no.

I'm sorry to say it but there are certain sections of the Muslim community in England (and the world) that seem to have a massive chip on their shoulder and it's about time that people realised its not racist to point this fact out.

If this post is seen as un P.C or rascist in any way I applogise. I mean no offense to any Asian readers who geuninley have no problem with people of other colours. I've been a victim of rasicm more then once, and bealive it or not it happens to white people too.

I think since 9/11 or war against terror has been a catalyst for Muslims to become very pro islamic, I am Sikh but I do have alot of Muslim friends and during this period saw a mass attempt by hard line Islamic factions to preach to the moderates this idea of Islam, they use very clever marketing techniques and prey on the nieve, they twist the media and info to the own use.

The thing is that Britain for many years and because of it's colonial background has always taken a softly softly touch regarding other races, some might say allowed races to practice there freedom of speech. this has allowed extremist elements to practice there freedom of speech and escalate extremism. I believe, if your loyalty is not to this country then you shouldn't have a british passport, no matter what race etc you are!!

Just another point, I hate the word Asian, the media uses the word alot and it describes a whole host of different cultures that are are from a whole continent (Asia). I have very little in common with other asain cultures so i find it disturbing when I am grouped with a bunch of people I have no language, religious cultural links, I would prefer to be called british sikh, or anglo punjabi etc

The Bradford, Oldham, Birmingham riots were described by the media as 'asian youths', when in fact it was only Muslim youths, no Sikh, Hindus etc were present, this was known by the media but to stop anti-muslim feeling they did not mention it, so the whole asian community gets tarnished.

Racism is a big problem within societies where races are isolated, ie total white, muslim, black areas. I'm lucky to live in a part of leicester where there is even mix of all cultures, you realise that all people have a lot more in common with each other and you learn to respect all others opinion, even if you disagree with each other

[The People's Hero]

So basically, does anyone want to buy some terrorism insurance?

[Magictv]

They all have stinkers once in a while, even the 'great' Collina... He's had more excellent games than poor ones. Thinking about it though, Urs Meier had a good game in Portugal 2004, but the English were the only ones to disagree

Alle except for dissalowing sol's goal he might have had a good match but he screwed up on a hugely important decision...

[wonderboy]

I have just learned to ignore them all as they clearly take their religion to the extreme. For instance the muslim women who insist on wearing a full body outfit and just show their eyes.

Theres nothing in the qu,ran that says women have to wear these garments the religion is a dangerous one

which should be left alone otherwise it gives them more fuel to spread there word of terror.

I have heard people say it is a few extremists who dont represent the majority of muslims fair enough but do you think every single nazi soldier or general wanted to be one ?. It only takes a few radicals to take power then all muslims are unwilling slaves to this so called holy 'jihad'.

if enoch powell had his way in the early 50's none of this would have happened.

and no im not racist

[Dr The Singh]

I have just learned to ignore them all as they clearly take their religion to the extreme. For instance the muslim women who insist on wearing a full body outfit and just show their eyes.

Theres nothing in the qu,ran that says women have to wear these garments the religion is a dangerous one

which should be left alone otherwise it gives them more fuel to spread there word of terror.

I have heard people say it is a few extremists who dont represent the majority of muslims fair enough but do you think every single nazi soldier or general wanted to be one ?. It only takes a few radicals to take power then all muslims are unwilling slaves to this so called holy 'jihad'.

if enoch powell had his way in the early 50's none of this would have happened.

and no im not racist

Good point, not everyone can be 'chief'!!

If someone like to dress like that then so be it!! The issue with radicalism will not go away, even if the war on terror, USA's foriegn policy, Palestine are all resolved. The radicals will find some angle, these people have to be stopped, and the government could have done alot to show that this will not be tolerated if all those protesters with insulting banner were arrested.

The problem then is that it all goes underground!!! This problem is one that could take a very long time to eradicate!!!

[wonderboy]

Good point, not everyone can be 'chief'!!

If someone like to dress like that then so be it!! The issue with radicalism will not go away, even if the war on terror, USA's foriegn policy, Palestine are all resolved. The radicals will find some angle, these people have to be stopped, and the government could have done alot to show that this will not be tolerated if all those protesters with insulting banner were arrested.

The problem then is that it all goes underground!!! This problem is one that could take a very long time to eradicate!!!

good points there i think like yourself that this problem may take atleast a few hundred years to go away it may even never go away.

it is sad to say but these 'radicals' are part and parcel of life they had them in the time of the crusades etc so it is not a modern disease and until they invent a solution that will make everyone happy then we are forced to take abuse from these people.