Winger

[Foxes_Wizard_Striker]

Surely thats the reason why there are pre-season friendlys, to develope the best team possible for that club?

And anyway, if we played two attacking wingers would Stearman and Nils be able to cope? Ones still petty inexperienced and the other can look suspect at times.

Would you still back having two wingers if we put them in and go on another losing streak ala Craig Levein?

I agree with Potty, the best place and time to test that formation is in pre season against two teams, one a strong european team if we can reel them in and other against weaker, league one or two type team like Oxford.However I feel we shouldn't tinker with line up as we are doing well with it now, we can instead find good players to replace whoever is playing in right/left winger postion now( Hughes and Maybury) if we get enough money I belivie that Hughes can replace Gudjohnsson effectively and Maybury aren't really a midfielder anyway.

[Thracian]

Surely thats the reason why there are pre-season friendlys, to develope the best team possible for that club?

And anyway, if we played two attacking wingers would Stearman and Nils be able to cope? Ones still petty inexperienced and the other can look suspect at times.

Would you still back having two wingers if we put them in and go on another losing streak ala Craig Levein?

First I think the most anyone is hoping for is ONE winger. It is a degree of progress/development I'd like to see not a revolution.

I also think teams have to be developed slowly in real games. You can only go so far with friendlies, reserve matches, end of season fixtures (when inconsequential).

So bearing in mind the one winger mentioned the answer to paragraph three is maybe. It depends what was going wrong. If the winger was to blame (I thought Levein should ditch Sylla almost from the start and bet he wishes he had done now) then no problem.

If others were to blame I would look at that. I don't want a winger because I'd rather lose but look good doing it. I believe in the end we will pass the ball better (a big weakness of ours) and will relieve the pressure on our twin strikers who get little support from midfield (blatantly illustrated with our goal on Saturday and that was relatively early on)

[Ive got the blues]

First I think the most anyone is hoping for is ONE winger. It is a degree of progress/development I'd like to see not a revolution.

I also think teams have to be developed slowly in real games. You can only go so far with friendlies, reserve matches, end of season fixtures (when inconsequential).

So bearing in mind the one winger mentioned the answer to paragraph three is maybe. It depends what was going wrong. If the winger was to blame (I thought Levein should ditch Sylla almost from the start and bet he wishes he had done now) then no problem.

If others were to blame I would look at that. I don't want a winger because I'd rather lose but look good doing it. I believe in the end we will pass the ball better (a big weakness of ours) and will relieve the pressure on our twin strikers who get little support from midfield (blatantly illustrated with our goal on Saturday and that was relatively early on)

its interesting you would highlight that we would pass the ball better if we played wingers, and that we would relieve the pressure on our strikers. The game of a winger is to receive the ball, then to beat his man and get a cross to the forwards in or simply play to the forwards without beating his man. Now this actually reduces passing and creates a more long ball game, ala chelsea with duff,cole wright phillips and robben. if your point is that we would pass the ball more with wingers then you are wrong as a more passing side such as arsenal keep possesion by playing short passes and use there wide players to come inside and play to the forwards feet. hume and fraytt are players who thrive on balls to feet so we would retain more possession by playing to feet than long crosses. Im not against getting a winger in its just your arguments make no sense, I cant believe you have been criticising kelly for not playing wingers when in effect we do not have any signed (not loaned) or fully fit) I think a signing of one winger would give us balance to play more styles of football that would allow us to break down more types of team but at the moment kelly can not change this system (and should he we are winning?)

[Thracian]

its interesting you would highlight that we would pass the ball better if we played wingers, and that we would relieve the pressure on our strikers. The game of a winger is to receive the ball, then to beat his man and get a cross to the forwards in or simply play to the forwards without beating his man. Now this actually reduces passing and creates a more long ball game, ala chelsea with duff,cole wright phillips and robben. if your point is that we would pass the ball more with wingers then you are wrong as a more passing side such as arsenal keep possesion by playing short passes and use there wide players to come inside and play to the forwards feet. hume and fraytt are players who thrive on balls to feet so we would retain more possession by playing to feet than long crosses. Im not against getting a winger in its just your arguments make no sense, I cant believe you have been criticising kelly for not playing wingers when in effect we do not have any signed (not loaned) or fully fit) I think a signing of one winger would give us balance to play more styles of football that would allow us to break down more types of team but at the moment kelly can not change this system (and should he we are winning?)

I totally disagree with your second paragraph and said so earlier. Among my favourite and most effective wingers at their best were Davie Beckham and Alan Hinton neither of them players who beat people but people who offered a permanent wide passing option and who were able to feed a succession of dangerous passes to the front men.

I see no point whatsoever in passing anywhere but to our striker's feet because, although Hume is a surprisingly good leaper and header of the ball, neither striker is likely to win much in the air against towering defenders.

Forgive me if I thought Welsh had been signed to give width.

[Ive got the blues]

I totally disagree with your second paragraph and said so earlier. Among my favourite and most effective wingers at their best were Davie Beckham and Alan Hinton neither of them players who beat people but people who offered a permanent wide passing option and who were able to feed a succession of dangerous passes to the front men.

I see no point whatsoever in passing anywhere but to our striker's feet because, although Hume is a surprisingly good leaper and header of the ball, neither striker is likely to win much in the air against towering defenders.

Forgive me if I thought Welsh had been signed to give width.

that was the point i was making we are not suited to a crossing game currently,

i think you will find that the second paragraph of mine says a winger either beats a player to then feed the striker with what is 90 percent of the time a long ball or simply plays a long ball first time (beckham chooses this option) he plays a very long ball game to the front two if selected out wide and lastly you do not have to beat your marker by taking the ball around him, by good movement you can simply free up time to place your long ball to the forwards.

[Thracian]

that was the point i was making we are not suited to a crossing game currently,

i think you will find that the second paragraph of mine says a winger either beats a player to then feed the striker with what is 90 percent of the time a long ball or simply plays a long ball first time (beckham chooses this option) he plays a very long ball game to the front two if selected out wide and lastly you do not have to beat your marker by taking the ball around him, by good movement you can simply free up time to place your long ball to the forwards.

Hinton was similar to be honest because, like Beckham, he could hit wonderful long passes.

A winger at Leicester would be unlikely to do this except occasionally but he could certainly feed low, early passes to Hume/Fryatt's favourite chanels providing an alternative to through-the-middle football.

If the winger, like Welsh, who seems well capable of making these searching passes, can also work a few chances of his own as well then the whole flow of the team will benefit and we will have further scoring potential.

At present we only have three scorers who are anything like regular: Hume, Fryatt and Gudjohnsson. We need more.

My concern is that we so often seem to have nowhere to pass out of defence and defensive midfield and that the play is far too contained in a 25/30 metre square.

There was a great example from Maybury in the second half against Reading when from deep right midfield he just hammered a low crossfield drive to nowhere and to no-one without a second's thought. Possession was immediately and needlessly lost. In the end cheap loss of possession costs goals.

[Ive got the blues]

Hinton was similar to be honest because, like Beckham, he could hit wonderful long passes.

A winger at Leicester would be unlikely to do this except occasionally but he could certainly feed low, early passes to Hume/Fryatt's favourite chanels providing an alternative to through-the-middle football.

If the winger, like Welsh, who seems well capable of making these searching passes, can also work a few chances of his own as well then the whole flow of the team will benefit and we will have further scoring potential.

At present we only have three scorers who are anything like regular: Hume, Fryatt and Gudjohnsson. We need more.

My concern is that we so often seem to have nowhere to pass out of defence and defensive midfield and that the play is far too contained in a 25/30 metre square.

There was a great example from Maybury in the second half against Reading when from deep right midfield he just hammered a low crossfield drive to nowhere and to no-one without a second's thought. Possession was immediately and needlessly lost. In the end cheap loss of possession costs goals.

ok that’s all great but i still don’t get this fascination with wingers, everything you have said there implies players who are good at passing who could either be wingers or midfielders.

[Bert]

I show so little faith or conviction in this club?? I'm the one backing Rob Kelly to the hilt and saying how great he's doing. How is that showing little faith? In fact, me, Babylon and a handful of others were the only ones who had any faith in Kelly when he was appointed and especially after the Southampton game.

Your constant criticisms and 'I know best' attitude is a prime example of showing so little faith, you seem to think you could do better than Kelly and that football is played on paper. Well it's not, and until you become the next manager of Leicester City (or any other Championship team) and take them to the top playing out and out wingers with Brazilian flair and with the 1960s attacking instincts - as you so frequently proclaim how the game should be played - I will continue to back Kelly's team selection and tactics ahead of yours. Especially when we're the form team in this league and more than held the champions-elect.

Well said Anish!! Thracian you may know a lot more then most people and you certainly know a lot more than me but at the moment Rob Kelly is in charge and he is doing things his way and it is working 1 defeat in 10 games?? surely the guy is doing something right, just because you are very knowledgable on the game it doesn't mean that you have the given right to knock peoples "faith and conviction" and it certainly doesn't mean that everything you say is correct.

[Thracian]

Well said Anish!! Thracian you may know a lot more then most people and you certainly know a lot more than me but at the moment Rob Kelly is in charge and he is doing things his way and it is working 1 defeat in 10 games?? surely the guy is doing something right, just because you are very knowledgable on the game it doesn't mean that you have the given right to knock peoples "faith and conviction" and it certainly doesn't mean that everything you say is correct.

I think he's done loads right and have said so as Anish well knows.

But I don't like being told to support Chelsea (after 50 years as a Leicester fan) just because I thought we could have won had we not copped out and Anish thinks I should be happy with a draw.

It is called opinion and in expressing it I don't consider I have any more knowledge than you or anyone else to be honest.

Do you really want us all to say the same thing and to follow the Foxes like children following the Pied Piper without criticising the team, the manager, the new flag, the ticket prices, the pies or anything else.

Had we been hammered in Saturday's match I would have been overjoyed to get a draw.

But we weren't.

We had Reading on the rack and there was no need to change our tactics and sit on our lead at the end. We were better than that and it was so irritating for us to surrender all that we had worked for just for another few minutes of self-belief.

[Guest]

Copped out? Are you having a laugh? Coppell has said that Hume and Fryatt tested his centre-backs more than any front pair this season, and it was clear to see that they'd both run themselves into the ground in the process!!

You seem to think that wingers are the panacea of football's evils, but it's just an option. I believe that our forwards are being let down by a less effective midfield full stop, not just because we don't have a bloke who can whip one in from the by-line.

We all know that despite the vast improvements made since Levein went, Kelly has not got very many options in the team selection and the formations he can deploy. It's also very likely during the summer he's not going to have much money to play with either. I think you'll be very disappointed come transfer deadline day.

We have 6 games left. Kelly has most likely engineered the biggest turnaround in results and performance in the club's history, and yet some people are still not happy. I'm not happy to sit on my laurels, I'm not being unambitious, I'm being realistic.

England won a World Cup without wingers.

[Babylon]

We have 6 games left. Kelly has most likely engineered the biggest turnaround in results and performance in the club's history, and yet some people are still not happy. I'm not happy to sit on my laurels, I'm not being unambitious, I'm being realistic.

[Katy]

Copped out? Are you having a laugh? Coppell has said that Hume and Fryatt tested his centre-backs more than any front pair this season, and it was clear to see that they'd both run themselves into the ground in the process!!

You seem to think that wingers are the panacea of football's evils, but it's just an option. I believe that our forwards are being let down by a less effective midfield full stop, not just because we don't have a bloke who can whip one in from the by-line.

We all know that despite the vast improvements made since Levein went, Kelly has not got very many options in the team selection and the formations he can deploy. It's also very likely during the summer he's not going to have much money to play with either. I think you'll be very disappointed come transfer deadline day.

We have 6 games left. Kelly has most likely engineered the biggest turnaround in results and performance in the club's history, and yet some people are still not happy. I'm not happy to sit on my laurels, I'm not being unambitious, I'm being realistic.

England won a World Cup without wingers.

I got moaned at for being realistic Lisa, its just not allowed on this forum

[Thracian]

Copped out? Are you having a laugh? Coppell has said that Hume and Fryatt tested his centre-backs more than any front pair this season, and it was clear to see that they'd both run themselves into the ground in the process!!

You seem to think that wingers are the panacea of football's evils, but it's just an option. I believe that our forwards are being let down by a less effective midfield full stop, not just because we don't have a bloke who can whip one in from the by-line.

We all know that despite the vast improvements made since Levein went, Kelly has not got very many options in the team selection and the formations he can deploy. It's also very likely during the summer he's not going to have much money to play with either. I think you'll be very disappointed come transfer deadline day.

We have 6 games left. Kelly has most likely engineered the biggest turnaround in results and performance in the club's history, and yet some people are still not happy. I'm not happy to sit on my laurels, I'm not being unambitious, I'm being realistic.

England won a World Cup without wingers.

Exactly. Hume and Fryatt did keep the centre-backs occupied. So why change the tactics in the closing stages?. Why not change like for like and retain two attacking strikers instead of going 4-5-1 and relieving that pressure on those defenders? You would guess that to do anything Leveinist is fatal.

Saturday had nothing to do with other Kelly results, any more than Kelly's record has anything to do with his contribution to the Levein days results.

It was about being in with a great chance of winning and changing tactics at the death. If the winger was to be used it should have been instead of the fourth midfield player not in addition. Leveinist 4-5-1's are fatal.

Kelly seems already to have thought along like-for-like lines. He used O'Grady/Hammond as a twin strike force against Chelsea Reserves last night (and they did quite well by all accounts). You can bet he'll replace like with like next time.

[Guest]

There may well be a very good reason for the changes he made, the choice of personnel on the bench would be a contributory factor. I don't see how he could go like for like.

As I've said elsewhere, I think our biggest weakness is midfield full stop. This is what is causing us to drop points. It's this that is putting pressure onto the front two. One winger will not cure all.

[Sir Fynwy]

The title of this thread should have been whingers, Thracian is a top quality one and could be in the England squad.

Is your glass ever half full Thracian, stop moaning and get behind the man who has pulled us out of the recent slump.

[Thracian]

There may well be a very good reason for the changes he made, the choice of personnel on the bench would be a contributory factor. I don't see how he could go like for like.

As I've said elsewhere, I think our biggest weakness is midfield full stop. This is what is causing us to drop points. It's this that is putting pressure onto the front two. One winger will not cure all.

Why couldn't he use O'Grady/Hammond as he did at Chelsea Res last night.

They were both fit and would have given Reading's tiring defenders another handful to deal with. That was what was working.

[Strokes]

The title of this thread should have been whingers, Thracian is a top quality one and could be in the England squad.

Is your glass ever half full Thracian, stop moaning and get behind the man who has pulled us out of the recent slump.

It's a good job it ain't called tossers then, else you would be talking too yourself

[Thracian]

The title of this thread should have been whingers, Thracian is a top quality one and could be in the England squad.

Is your glass ever half full Thracian, stop moaning and get behind the man who has pulled us out of the recent slump.

I do get behind him so much so that instead of believing he can do no wrong I give thought to where he can be still better. And what impresses me most about Kelly is that he sends Hammond and O'Grady out as a strike partnership for the Reserves at Chelsea and gives the real impression that he won't make the same mistake again that he did against Reading. I believe that win or lose Kelly will first be critical of himself and that is how it should be. Had Levein been the same Leicester would never have got into such a mess.

[Ric Flair]

I'm going to enter the debate.

I am caught in the middle of this really because I agree with alot of what Thracian is saying but I also realise it's not as simple as he describes and whilst we are unbeaten it's hard to prove how essential it is that we have a wide midfielder.

I think it's fair to say this team needs a winger or a wide midfielder to give us width and supply crosses which we very rarely do.

I thought Hughes had a half decent game on saturday when he was needed. The interesting thing was he wasn't needed that often and there were stages when he didn't get the ball for a long while. But when he did he used it well. The ball wasn't played down the flanks at all other than when the ball was flown through the channels for the strikers to run on to who inturn held it up and waited for support from the midfielders.

I kind of like the way the team is playing at the minute, it's a mixture of styles and it unsettles the opposition. But if we could get a winger (just one) of similar ilk to Bobby Convey I think it would give the team a different dimension and take us to anotherl level. Fryatt has excellent movement and strikers predatory instincts, I think he would benefit from a wide midfielder who could provide crosses on a regular basis in to the box for him to connect with.

It's working without winger/wingers but all successful teams have one player in their team who gives them width and supplies decent crosses/set pieces.

[Sir Fynwy]

It's a good job it ain't called tossers then, else you would be talking too yourself

Really? I'm only saying that we are currently playing to the best ability of our squad and don't actually need to change much at the moment, if the squad was better we'd possible be able to play a bit more expansively but we are not exactly gifted with the best players in the world.

Call me a tosser to my face F2, Row A seat 200!

[Sir Fynwy]

I do get behind him so much so that instead of believing he can do no wrong I give thought to where he can be still better. And what impresses me most about Kelly is that he sends Hammond and O'Grady out as a strike partnership for the Reserves at Chelsea and gives the real impression that he won't make the same mistake again that he did against Reading. I believe that win or lose Kelly will first be critical of himself and that is how it should be. Had Levein been the same Leicester would never have got into such a mess.

There is less pressure on at reserve games and we can look at systems for the future, nobody knows yet whether Rob is a no-winger, 1 winger or 2 wingers manager at heart, he has taken what he's got and made it work.

I don't see the need for constant sniping at a system that is working currently, Craig changed the team each match and look where we ended up.

[Thracian]

We might not have the best players in the land but help is at hand for all those who love a midfield melee.....Danny Tiatto is on his way back and should be fit before the of the season.

[The Don]

We might not have the best players in the land but help is at hand for all those who love a midfield melee.....Danny Tiatto is on his way back and should be fit before the of the season.

God help us!!!! <_<

[Thracian]

Come on let's be positive.

It offers a whole new incentive for the players because if Tiatto gets in the starting line-up they'll be going all out to ensure he gets his first win in any League match he's started this season.

Would a win bonus ever be more welcome for a guy?

[The Don]

Come on let's be positive.

It offers a whole new incentive for the players because if Tiatto gets in the starting line-up they'll be going all out to ensure he gets his first win in any League match he's started this season.

Would a win bonus ever be more welcome for a guy?

In a word, no. I would rather someone from the acadamy get a game - even one of the trialists we have. Can't stand him and would ship him back today!