Thracian Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 I've been labelled old fashioned for championing the idea of playing a winger in so-called modern football but it was interesting to read Leicester legend Lenny Glover's comments on the Leicester Mercury Blue Army website. On watching the Leicester/Reading game Glover said: "Kelly also needs a winger - we don't seem to have any width. Reading had one and it gives you an outlet ball. We didn't have anyone like that and that was one of the reasons why the ball kept coming back in the second half. "Fryatt and Hume work the channels well but, stop them, and you stop the team - City really need a wide player but I don't suppose Kelly is going to have a lot of money to spend and that could be a problem." Glover of course will never have been seen by many of today's City fans so, although he was a genuine legend, who was a thrilling player to watch at a time when City were a decent top flight team. Some will doubtless dismiss his comments as old fashioned and therefore irrelevent. Ironic though that Reading have walked the Champoinship being managed by a former winger, using a wide man to provide that outlet ball mentioned and have topped the table with 82 goals. Nor have they conceded many - 26 to Leicester's 52 - despite the suggestion by some that a winger means the midfield being overrun. If that is not all a pointer for Kelly I don't know what is. The problem of course is people tend to resort to kind. Levein was a centre-back who focused almost exclusively on solid defence, Kelly was a midfielder who favours swamping midfield and Coppell was a winger who uses a winger and is now on his way to the Premiership. Glover's pedigree: *Len came to Leicester in 1968 when Matt Giles paid £80,000 (at the time an English record for a winger). Goals by Len took City through too the 1st two rounds of their 1969 Cup run to Wembley. Two years later he often sparred with the defences of Second Divisions teams as part of Leicesters promotion Campaign. After returning to Division 1 Len was responsible for making many of Frank Worthington's goals, and when City reached the Cup semi-finals in 1974, Len scored the equaliser in the replay against Liverpool. (Liverpool eventually won) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 In a perfect world i would agree whole-heartedly with you, the thing is that Kelly is rewarding the team for results. I feel that he spotted the need for a old-fashoned winger and consequently got rid of smith and bought in Welsh but due to the recent run hasn't been able to use the poor chap. Kelly is doing such a good job it's hard too critisise but when things are not going so well and he has to correct things we will see exactly what he is made of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 Yes Thrac well done I think the Fact that Reading have a SUPERIOR team to most sides in this league, and a team that has played togther for a long time now, has more to do with the reason they are top then the fact that they play with a wide man. Which winger is he talking about any way? They normally play Convey (absloutley awsome player IMO) at left back, and he gives them execellent wide suppourt, and he does this as well as getting back to defend. Quite possibly why they dont concead! Competent full backs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 27 March 2006 Author Share Posted 27 March 2006 Yes Thrac well done I think the Fact that Reading have a SUPERIOR team to most sides in this league, and a team that has played togther for a long time now, has more to do with the reason they are top then the fact that they play with a wide man. Which winger is he talking about any way? They normally play Convey (absloutley awsome player IMO) at left back, and he gives them execellent wide suppourt, and he does this as well as getting back to defend. Quite possibly why they dont concead! Competent full backs! Not an attacking full-back surely!!! We don't want any of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 For gods sake... has anyone actually said that we don't want a winger???? Not as far as I know. Yes we need to buy a couple of players who can play out wide. But your comments are aimed at this season from what i've seen. If we keep getting the results we are then I don't care if we don't play wingers. Next season is a whole new kettle of fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 Not an attacking full-back surely!!! We don't want any of those how did I know you'd say somthing like that. He's injured Thrac, I sure you will see him play more games next season, if he doesn't its cleary because hes not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 For gods sake... has anyone actually said that we don't want a winger???? Not as far as I know. Yes we need to buy a couple of players who can play out wide. But your comments are aimed at this season from what i've seen. If we keep getting the results we are then I don't care if we don't play wingers. Next season is a whole new kettle of fish. I think we will all be in a better position to judge next season, we certainly cannot do anymore this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 27 March 2006 Author Share Posted 27 March 2006 In a perfect world i would agree whole-heartedly with you, the thing is that Kelly is rewarding the team for results. I feel that he spotted the need for a old-fashoned winger and consequently got rid of smith and bought in Welsh but due to the recent run hasn't been able to use the poor chap. Kelly is doing such a good job it's hard too critisise but when things are not going so well and he has to correct things we will see exactly what he is made of. I understand what you say and I sympathise with Kelly's sentiments considering the position we were in. But sooner or later Kelly will have to develop the team and be brave enough to make improvements. How would you expect him to react to Saturday? Keep the same team because they did so well to draw against the League leaders? Or try to improve the team because he felt it was two points dropped?. I ask that because, like Glover, I believe Kelly tried to sit on 1-0 in the second half and, as so often when teams get into that position, it didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 27 March 2006 Author Share Posted 27 March 2006 how did I know you'd say somthing like that. He's injured Thrac, I sure you will see him play more games next season, if he doesn't its cleary because hes not good enough. I've long forgotten him...he would have gone on loan to Hinckley but for the managerial changeover. But we still have no attacking left-backs because I cannot quite see Rufus Brevett in the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 I understand what you say and I sympathise with Kelly's sentiments considering the position we were in. But sooner or later Kelly will have to develop the team and be brave enough to make improvements. How would you expect him to react to Saturday? Keep the same team because they did so well to draw against the League leaders? Or try to improve the team because he felt it was two points dropped?. I ask that because, like Glover, I believe Kelly tried to sit on 1-0 in the second half and, as so often when teams get into that position, it didn't work. Agreed!!! The best coaches\managers are one's that are constantly trying to improve there teams. Kelly will have to assess the current squad and make improvements as he see's fit, ie winger\right sided midfielder etc. Also, if promotion is the target the ethos of the team may also need to change ie sitting on 1-0 leads!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 I understand what you say and I sympathise with Kelly's sentiments considering the position we were in. But sooner or later Kelly will have to develop the team and be brave enough to make improvements. How would you expect him to react to Saturday? Keep the same team because they did so well to draw against the League leaders? Or try to improve the team because he felt it was two points dropped?. I ask that because, like Glover, I believe Kelly tried to sit on 1-0 in the second half and, as so often when teams get into that position, it didn't work. I think you are right, but what has impressed me most so far about Kelly is he seems to learn from mistakes and have no problem holding his hands up (such a nice trait after 18 month's of Levein) he is still very inexperienced and we have to allow the bloke time to adopt his style and continue the same plan that Levein had. Like i said earlier i think come next season, when he has the chance to change things around this will not be an issue at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 I'm sorry Thracian, but do you know what Kelly's plans actually are? He took over at the end of the transfer window, we have next to no money available, what do you expect him to do, make wingers out of thin air? Has the thought not occurred that maybe the players he has do not suit playing an out and out winger for 90 minutes? He's bought in Welsh, but there must be a reason, and that reason may not necessarily to play him as much as you'd like, perhaps he's using the loan to trial the guy with his plans for next season in mind? And you accuse me of being too black and white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 27 March 2006 Author Share Posted 27 March 2006 I'm sorry Thracian, but do you know what Kelly's plans actually are? He took over at the end of the transfer window, we have next to no money available, what do you expect him to do, make wingers out of thin air? Has the thought not occurred that maybe the players he has do not suit playing an out and out winger for 90 minutes? He's bought in Welsh, but there must be a reason, and that reason may not necessarily to play him as much as you'd like, perhaps he's using the loan to trial the guy with his plans for next season in mind? And you accuse me of being too black and white? I don't remember accusing you of anything but apologies if I did. I still see nothing to be gained by having Maybury and Hughes as wide players at the expense of Welsh - it is not as if they've been playing particularly well from what I've noticed and the burden of the system has really told on the strikers who are so knackered after 65/70 minutes that Fryatt is carrying the classic overload injury, a groin strain. The reason they are knackered is that they don't get enough forward support from Maybury and Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 I still see nothing to be gained by having Maybury and Hughes I'll show you what has been gained.... http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/oform.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coale39 Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 I'll show you what has been gained.... http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/oform.html Exactly! Kelly seems the sort of bloke that doesn't change a winning system. It makes sense! Judge him on the selection next season ( ) and then start complaining about team balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Fynwy Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 Len Glover is a nice bloke and a city legend but he is also so stupid that he ends up the fall guy in a drugs ring, Len is also a fully paid up member of the wingesr union and is going to say that there aren't enough about. I'll judge Rob next season, based on the signings to strengthen the midfield and the system he plays after this (currently I can only judge him based on the amount of points gained in the last 10 games ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gené and Tonic Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 I'll show you what has been gained.... http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/oform.html ...and that's all that matters! Until something goes wrong whats the point in changing it? If it ain't broken don't fix it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anish Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 I'll show you what has been gained.... http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/oform.html Too bloody right. If 1-1 against the runaway leaders isn't good enough for people then by all means support Chelsea. Anybody who changes a successful team which is in fine form (and the club's best run for 3 seasons and more) would be mad. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. People hated the fact that Levein changed winning teams and yet the same people are advocating dropping Maybury and Hughes when we've only lost 1 in 10. Plus, what do you think it would do to the morale of the players if they were dropped after a victory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muz Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 Some people are never happy. After the Sheff Wed's game away , I thought that was it for the first time In my whole Leicester supporting life , I actually felt so empty and I had lost the passion and pride I once had. And as I was leaving the ground plenty of City fans felt the same. But what RK has done is absoloutely superb , took us from 21st in the league to 16th and well clear of the drop zone , I now have that passion back and cannot wait for match days again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 27 March 2006 Author Share Posted 27 March 2006 I'll show you what has been gained.... http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/oform.html I'm talking about now Babylon. Unlike some I am quite convinced we are not going down and am looking forward to some team development. If you are perfectly happy with the way the team is shaping up, fine, but I would like a potential title challenging team developed and do not believe that Maybury and Hughes together are our best wide options so now is a good time enough time to try an alternative. I didn't complain about Maybury/Hughes when we were fighting for any points we could get, why would I?. But all the statistics in the world will not convince me that this side is anything but functional at present. And it showed once the two strikers tired in the second half against Reading, as it showed against Ipswich and in spells against Luton and Millwall. Statistics are important but they can be used to paper over a lot of cracks. It is actually a lot easier to develop teams when you are winning than when you are losing and desperate for points. The sort of thing I would like to know now is whether our team functions better with a winger and whether a front pairing of O'Grady/Chambers or O'Grady/Hammond if it has to be, can keep as much pressure on a defence like Reading's as Fryatt/Hume. Sadly when Kelly changed it Saturday - when we were winning by the way - he didn't go like for like and therefore, to some extent relieved the presssure on Reading's back line allowing them to push more men forward, which they might have risked anyway. As for Anish saying I should support Chelsea I would ask if he feels I should have the bad manners to suggest he support someone else everytime I disagree with him (which is always) or because he shows so little faith or conviction in his club?. I was not happy with a 1-1 draw because I actually felt we were good enough to beat Reading and always did. For much of the game on Saturday we were the better team and IMO had no reason at all to back off. Reading may have equalised anyway but our becoming more defensive assisted them. God knows how many times Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Jose Morinho and other good managers have changed a successful and winning team. Are they all mad? Kelly will need alternative line-ups/tactics as he goes along and the sooner he learns what works best as alternatives the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 27 March 2006 Author Share Posted 27 March 2006 Len Glover is a nice bloke and a city legend but he is also so stupid that he ends up the fall guy in a drugs ring, Len is also a fully paid up member of the wingesr union and is going to say that there aren't enough about. I'll judge Rob next season, based on the signings to strengthen the midfield and the system he plays after this (currently I can only judge him based on the amount of points gained in the last 10 games ). How many opinions are going to be passed if we only allow saints or people who are not stupid to voice em. Len Glover made a mistake and there but for fortune go a lot of others. I was passing on his opinion as a footballer and the sort of player who would have walked into our side and been a great favourite. He did wrong and paid his dues but what he did doesn't devalue what he has to say on football and his crimes were no worse than those of everyday politicians some people patronise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anish Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 As for Anish saying I should support Chelsea I would ask if he feels I should have the bad manners to suggest he support someone else everytime I disagree with him (which is always) or because he shows so little faith or conviction in his club?. I show so little faith or conviction in this club?? I'm the one backing Rob Kelly to the hilt and saying how great he's doing. How is that showing little faith? In fact, me, Babylon and a handful of others were the only ones who had any faith in Kelly when he was appointed and especially after the Southampton game. Your constant criticisms and 'I know best' attitude is a prime example of showing so little faith, you seem to think you could do better than Kelly and that football is played on paper. Well it's not, and until you become the next manager of Leicester City (or any other Championship team) and take them to the top playing out and out wingers with Brazilian flair and with the 1960s attacking instincts - as you so frequently proclaim how the game should be played - I will continue to back Kelly's team selection and tactics ahead of yours. Especially when we're the form team in this league and more than held the champions-elect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 27 March 2006 Author Share Posted 27 March 2006 I show so little faith or conviction in this club?? I'm the one backing Rob Kelly to the hilt and saying how great he's doing. How is that showing little faith? In fact, me, Babylon and a handful of others were the only ones who had any faith in Kelly when he was appointed and especially after the Southampton game. Your constant criticisms and 'I know best' attitude is a prime example of showing so little faith, you seem to think you could do better than Kelly and that football is played on paper. Well it's not, and until you become the next manager of Leicester City (or any other Championship team) and take them to the top playing out and out wingers with Brazilian flair and with the 1960s attacking instincts - as you so frequently proclaim how the game should be played - I will continue to back Kelly's team selection and tactics ahead of yours. Especially when we're the form team in this league and more than held the champions-elect. With such undiluted blind faith why are you so pleased to settle for a draw in a game we could well have won?. And just because some people find it perfectly possible to back a club, a manager, a player without being blind to their faults or imperfections doesn't make them any less of a fan or any less supportive. As I said before, Kelly deserved criticism for the Southampton performance the same as Kisnorbo deserved criticism for some of his midfield displays in the past. That doesn't mean we don't support Kelly or Kisnorbo when they do well or, indeed, generally. I have written loads of stories, and I mean loads, in full support of Kelly and fully backed his getting a long term contract both in print and in other ways. By the way, how many Championship teams have you managed to give you the right to such a holier than thou attitude?. As for criticism, especially destructive criticism, you set a standard all of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Fynwy Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 How many opinions are going to be passed if we only allow saints or people who are not stupid to voice em. Len Glover made a mistake and there but for fortune go a lot of others. I was passing on his opinion as a footballer and the sort of player who would have walked into our side and been a great favourite. He did wrong and paid his dues but what he did doesn't devalue what he has to say on football and his crimes were no worse than those of everyday politicians some people patronise. Len has an opinion but is of no more value than anyone else on here's, have you spoken to him recently? When I last spoke to him (a few weeks ago) he commented that he hadn't seen any city matches lately because the birch had told him not to bother. I didn't have a go about Len's time inside, just used it to express that he isn't the sharpest tool, he is a very nice bloke but I wouldn't treat his comment as gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potter3 Posted 27 March 2006 Share Posted 27 March 2006 Surely thats the reason why there are pre-season friendlys, to develope the best team possible for that club? And anyway, if we played two attacking wingers would Stearman and Nils be able to cope? Ones still petty inexperienced and the other can look suspect at times. Would you still back having two wingers if we put them in and go on another losing streak ala Craig Levein? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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