Theoretical football

[Gené and Tonic]

Still, it wouldn't harm anyone if the academy players were given a go once in a while! (Unless they get some kind of long term injury however )

[Mark]

A valid point I would say.

Of course they are going to look good against coalville, but if you chuck them in against the better teams they will look very ordinary, unless of course they are very talented.

Why are we focusing on the Coalville game? Our youth team has been performing well for most of the season in the Reserves against Premiership reserve teams and generally better opposition than Coalville Town. Some of the players in the Reserves would look out of place, but those that have been mentioned often over the past few months (Sheehan, Gradel, Dodds, maybe Porter) by many that watch the Reserve and Youth games deserve a chance and probably wouldn't look out of place, but they won't get that chance for a while now the season is over. Dodds and Porter should have been loaned out last season, we've held back their progression for another season which is typical of this club.

Sylla, Hamill and Tiatto have had their chances this season, and haven't delivered, infact I'm struggling to remember one game which any of them did. So, if we see any of them next season it doesn't send out a good signal to the players that have performed well for our Reserves for all of last season does it?

[Thracian]

I really don't care about Momo Sylla and I care even less about Danny. I didn't want him to stay however I knew he would be staying, our squad is small and Kelly isn't looking to bring many players in which basically means holding on to what he's got. Sylla has another year, I know he's done nothing but he's here to stay, he was signed as a first team player and was more then likely promised first team football. Kelly will try and make him happy by putting him in the squad, thats life. A day doesn't go by without you reminding us all in one way or another that Danny Tiatto and Momo Sylla are Leicester City players. It's needless.

I wont say this again, football isn't player like it used to be 2-2-6 formations arent going to work and neither is playing 10 attacking players. We are managing to form a fairly solid team, and we have more good players then you think, Hughes is quality no matter what you say. season before last he was inspirational and Rangers had him down as the next big thing. Instead of trying to get Levi Porter on the pitch I would be hopeing Hughes can produce his best form.

I think if you play the likes of Porter and Dodds in the first team at the moment you will see that they look as ordinary as a Sylla or a Tiatto. The class differnce from reserve to first team is massive, what works against Coalville Town wont against Leeds United. Young players are prone to having large spells of poor form, and we are quite a demanding set of fans, we could destroy players like Dodds and Porter if they didnt play well.

Loan deal for both of them I say

I'm glad you mentioned Sylla being "more than likely promised first team football," because that's the only possible explanation I can think of for him getting anyway near the team. I can think of a few more who were probably made the same promise.

And of course it makes a complete mockery of Kelly's claim that the only people who'll get in the team are those that earn the shirt.

Everyone's equal but some are more equal than others, eh. I might have expected it in these days when tales of unashamed hypocrisy make our front page headlines on a daily basis.

Loan Sylla I say and keep the people like Dodds and Porter who have done the club some credit. They did well against Coalville because that was who they were playing and they can only do well against the opposition of the day.

And since January that's everyone. They've hardly been on the losing side for first team or reserves inthat time whereas Sylla didn't even do well in the one game he played for the seconds.

And as for 10 attacking players what's wrong with that so long as enough of them can defend as well?. People like Steve Walsh and Matt Elliott were defenders but could score goals. People like Stearman are full-backs who can score/make goals. People like Izzett and Gibson were midfield players who could score/make goals. People like Guppy and Glover were wingers who could score/make goals.

I think I know what makes a good footballer or a good football team and it's not so different in this era as in any other. We don't have enough good footballers like the ones mentioned above and promises of first team football for anyone won't help the situation.

I've been hoping myself that Hughes, Maybury, Tiatto produce some form but through game after game when has it happened? While hope might spring eternal, Porter and Dodds have performed week in week out.

Sylla and Tiatto might well be staying as you say but so what?. It is not as if they have'nt had opportunities. But alongside that other people have their ambitions and deserve their chance and Leicester City need to move forward not tread water.

If Sylla and Tiatto perform well in the reserves and make a case for a comeback should there be a vacancy, fair enough but I don't think they will. Tiatto might show some character but I doubt Sylla would even get into the team. Not in Gradel or Porter's place.

[Manwell Pablo]

There you go again bashing Sylla to pieces. He's shite we all know this, well I hesitate to say he's shite Momo Sylla does have and always has had talent. He's attitude here is beyond awful and he prances round the pitch like Christopher Dean. He basically has no want or desire to be at this club, and if he does he has a funny way of showing it.

My solution to our midfield problem is to neither play Momo Sylla or Porter Gradel Etc. It would instead be get someone in who could actually move this team foward.

In terms of the other players mentioned, I think Danny is going to be viewed as a squad player. Hughes and Maybury are both good players, they have been off the boil this season, Maybury espically seeing as he doesn;t even have the excuse of a persistant ankle problem, but im hopeing a full close season behind them and we will see their 04/05 form back again, along with a fit Weslowski, a new or two signing, and Williams playing in 5th gear.

Izzet played with Lennon and Savage, where as Muzzy was good at winning the ball back he was the spark and they were the workers. Stevet Walsh and Matty Elliot were not attacking players.... They were good defenders who happened to come up for corners and free kicks. I can't stand people remembering Walsh and Elliot for scoring headers from set pieces, it detracts from what they actually were, rocks at the back.

Fortunately for me Glover and Gibson were before my time. So no comment.

Focus on the positives instead of Danny Tiatto and Sylla.

[FNQ]

This thread is a joke isn't it?

[Sir Fynwy]

Compared to Wesolowski, Stearman and O'Grady. Not a bad return, infact there are only two in that bunch that I ever thought would make it. So out of 5 players i've predicted over the years, 3 have looked good at this level. Not a bad record is it? Plus Dawson, is far too good for the level he's playing at, I hope he gets to play at Leicester's level one day to prove me right or wrong.

In my opinion these 3 players have not made it yet, if breaking into the first team of a poor championship team is your idea of having made it I pity you, to make it, as you say, I'd consider a player that is being linked to full international call up or who has been transfered for a health fee to a bigger club, they must at least have played in the top league. Stop dropping your targets, if we drop them low enough we could say that any player who gets paid has made it. These players have taken a step up and are looking OK at the moment but they aren't there yet.

The last player to make it at City was Piper and that didn't last long.

[Ric Flair]

In my opinion these 3 players have not made it yet, if breaking into the first team of a poor championship team is your idea of having made it I pity you, to make it, as you say, I'd consider a player that is being linked to full international call up or who has been transfered for a health fee to a bigger club, they must at least have played in the top league. Stop dropping your targets, if we drop them low enough we could say that any player who gets paid has made it. These players have taken a step up and are looking OK at the moment but they aren't there yet.

The last player to make it at City was Piper and that didn't last long.

I think you have mis-understood what I was saying, What I consider making it in terms of young players in this situation is breaking through in to the first team and improving it. That's all i'm interested in at the minute because this club isn't in a good position and if there are young players in our academy that can come in and play better than the current players in their position then that to me is fantastic news considering we've little money.

Stearman has outshone Maybury this season in almost every single game, it's been embarrassing. League position might prove otherwise but since Stearman has established himself as our first choice right back, we've looked alot better and fluent. As a player he hasn't yet made it because as you say he's only playing for a poor Championship side, but if he continues at the rate he has done and fulfills his potential then he'll have made it.

Wesolowski certainly hasn't made it yet, but as above he vastly improved the side when he played almost to the point where alot of people were saying he was the main reason for the turn around in results, his injury led to abit of a down turn in results but that was when Kelly showed his qualities and got us back on track. Again, in this situation it's all about whether these players can improve our team and both Stearman and Wesolowski have proved they can remarkably.

O'Grady has been a bit part player, but he's impressed me. He's not made it and I had serious doubts he ever would only 6 months ago and that's what's impressed me about him. His passion and determination to better himself and help this team. He might have only made a handful of appearances but he has had a big hand in helping us stay up. That doesn't mean he has made it but he's helped improve our team when needed, something Elvis Hammond struggled to do all season.

So don't pity me meowd, we've just had a breakdown in communication.

[Thracian]

That's exactly what "making it" is at Leicester - getting selected and showing you are better than we had before.

And if our manager picks his team in this way without fear or favour and never wavers in his determination to keep improving then Leicester City will regain their status eventually and a few players will surprise both themselves and the fans in the things they achieve.

O'Grady is the classic example of someone who will improve weekon week, month on month and, as a result, get further than anyone could have dreamed.

If I were a military commander (or a football manager) O'Grady is just the type I'd want. Utterly determined and humble enough to focus on continuing to improve even when he does well.

They should make a video of O'Grady and play it to people who are too mentally soft to make the most of their talents and I'll include Sheehan in that. Sheehan might have been treated insensitively at times but O'Grady could give him a priceless lesson in how to respond properly.

[Guest]

How can you "make it" if you are still "improving"?

At that point you are still a "prospect".

[Ric Flair]

How can you "make it" if you are still "improving"?

At that point you are still a "prospect".

The term 'making it' might have been the wrong one to use. But mine and Thracian's point is that with the situation we are in it is imperitive we look at our academy aswell as the transfer market to improve our squad.

In the past season 4 youngsters have been used from our academy in the league (Weso, Stearman, O'Grady and Sheehan) and i'd argue that 3 of them definately improved our team when they played. That is what it's about for me, forget whether they are ever going to play international football or get us £15 million, yes that would be nice but it's not the major issue at the minute. If we can get a young player through the academy that is better in the position they play than the current player that plays there for free then i'd class that as a success for the club.

If those players then go on to 'make it' by getting an international call-up or we receive a large transfer fee for them ala Heskey, Piper, etc then that's a massive bonus.

None of them have 'made it' as such, but they have improved our team. Don't you think?

[Strokes]

The term 'making it' might have been the wrong one to use. But mine and Thracian's point is that with the situation we are in it is imperitive we look at our academy aswell as the transfer market to improve our squad.

In the past season 4 youngsters have been used from our academy in the league (Weso, Stearman, O'Grady and Sheehan) and i'd argue that 3 of them definately improved our team when they played. That is what it's about for me, forget whether they are ever going to play international football or get us £15 million, yes that would be nice but it's not the major issue at the minute. If we can get a young player through the academy that is better in the position they play than the current player that plays there for free then i'd class that as a success for the club.

If those players then go on to 'make it' by getting an international call-up or we receive a large transfer fee for them ala Heskey, Piper, etc then that's a massive bonus.

None of them have 'made it' as such, but they have improved our team. Don't you think?

Heskey and Piper had such high transfer fees because they played well in the Prem, also at the time transfer fees were inflated from todays prices (chelsea excluded). If Leicesters as a team can improve at the same rate these younsters are doing we will be out of this league faster than some people could wish for.

[Manwell Pablo]

Heskey was a bit of a joke and extremly overated. 11 Million form a player who has never scored 15 goals a season is laughable.

Although under the current criteria of large transfere fee's and international apperances he's ajudged to have "made it".

Also Lisa I'd put it to you that all players would like to think they never stop improving, so at what point do they stop being prospects?

[Nationwider]

Heskey was a bit of a joke and extremly overated. 11 Million form a player who has never scored 15 goals a season is laughable.

Although under the current criteria of large transfere fee's and international apperances he's ajudged to have "made it".

Also Lisa I'd put it to you that all players would like to think they never stop improving, so at what point do they stop being prospects?

Credibility looking a bit shaky there, Manwell. Prepare to have to defend that statement!

[Strokes]

Credibility looking a bit shaky there, Manwell. Prepare to have to defend that statement!

I agree a bit certainly by leicester fans he is overated and was never worth 11Million in todays money.

[Manwell Pablo]

Credibility looking a bit shaky there, Manwell. Prepare to have to defend that statement!

Good player, How he was ever worth 11 million pounds I don't know, and he should never of player for England. He's transfere was a bit of joke is probabley what I should of said. Still Overrated big time.

[Nationwider]

I agree a bit certainly by leicester fans he is overated and was never worth 11Million in todays money.

But 2000 isn't today.

His worth to LCFC was £11M...and them some. I'd like to know how much Steve Claridge or Tony Cottee valued him. Quite a lot, I reckon.

[Manwell Pablo]

But 2000 isn't today.

His worth to LCFC was £11M...and them some. I'd like to know how much Steve Claridge or Tony Cottee valued him. Quite a lot, I reckon.

Sale of the centrey imo! In answer to the above probabley no-where near as much as the midfield behind them.

[Nationwider]

Good player, How he was ever worth 11 million pounds I don't know, and he should never of player for England. He's transfere was a bit of joke is probabley what I should of said. Still Overrated big time.

£11M is an extraordinary amount of money in today's terms, I'd agree - it would pay our current squad for roughly the next four seasons!

Heskey brought a lot of qualities to the party, goalscoring (or lack of) aside - Houllier, Ericsson and MON can't all have been wrong? (I won't mention Steve Bruce - he's nearly always wrong).

[Strokes]

But 2000 isn't today.

His worth to LCFC was £11M...and them some. I'd like to know how much Steve Claridge or Tony Cottee valued him. Quite a lot, I reckon.

If the £11 Mil had been used by Mon to bring in new players i think we would have been laughing all the way to the bank but as Peter Taylor wasted it, it was probably not such a clever move.

Don't get me wrong, i think Heskey was a useful forward but he isn't the player that we seen here and he should score more goals.

[Fez of Mahrez]

£11M is an extraordinary amount of money in today's terms, I'd agree - it would pay our current squad for roughly the next four seasons!

Heskey brought a lot of qualities to the party, goalscoring (or lack of) aside - Houllier, Ericsson and MON can't all have been wrong? (I won't mention Steve Bruce - he's nearly always wrong).

Don't forget Heskey's England days were pre-Rooney... and Houllier also spent £11m on Djibril Cisse

[davieG]

"Making it" is indefinable in general terms, I would say it's all down to the individual and what their expectations are, even then I would be surprised if they didn't change during the course of a life time.

Otherwise in football terms you might just as well say you've not made it if you haven't achieved at least;

World Cup Winner

A continental cup final winner

A national league Championship winner

A national cup final winner

Captained your team at league and international level

Won the player of the year at every level.

etc.

It's all relative and to argue that it's has a specific definition is to be pedantic, and that's coming from someone who's often been accused of being pedantic. Or is that what I'm being now?

[Nationwider]

Now we've got a theoretical discussion on something that's essentially indefinable!

[Nationwider]

Don't forget Heskey's England days were pre-Rooney... and Houllier also spent £11m on Djibril Cisse

Not Heskey's fault, though. Everyone in English football is destined to be measured in terms of pre-Rooney or post-Rooney, as he's the finest footballer of his generation.

Don't forget Heskey's England days were pre-Rooney... and Houllier also spent £11m on Djibril Cisse

A-hem... good point.

[Guest]

Also Lisa I'd put it to you that all players would like to think they never stop improving, so at what point do they stop being prospects?

Do you mean objectively or subjectively?

It's the "success" argument all over again.

Seeing as this discussion is concerning several players, I would take the objective approach, in which case then we don't have many players who have "made it", which is about right for where we are, and the season we have had.

[Ric Flair]

"Making it" is indefinable in general terms, I would say it's all down to the individual and what their expectations are, even then I would be surprised if they didn't change during the course of a life time.

Otherwise in football terms you might just as well say you've not made it if you haven't achieved at least;

World Cup Winner

A continental cup final winner

A national league Championship winner

A national cup final winner

Captained your team at league and international level

Won the player of the year at every level.

etc.

It's all relative and to argue that it's has a specific definition is to be pedantic, and that's coming from someone who's often been accused of being pedantic. Or is that what I'm being now?

The way the discussion was going pre Heskey talk wasn't even talking about making it as such. Just the fact that we have had and got some very good youngsters that have and hopefully will improve our team. Whether they only improve it for a short period of time, shouldn't deter from the fact that all players should be picked on merit. When our youngsters from the academy have been given the chance recently, few have looked out of their depth and the majority have improved our team. That surely is a great benefit to the club and it begs the question, is there more in there that could improve us? Because we still ahve some weak links amongst our squad and with little money available, if there were to be a few more step up to the plate then it could really make a difference in our future.

Kelly knows what he's doing though I hope, he's certainly not been afraid to play Stearman and Wesolowski when available and the same with O'Grady. If there are more in our academy that are good enough I expect Kelly to give them a chance if the first team players aren't allearning the right to wear the shirt.