My Nightmare Experience At Derby

[Daggers]

I am intrigued to find out what getting "smased" is all about...it sounds kinky.

[Floating Fox]

I am intrigued to find out what getting "smased" is all about...it sounds kinky.

Well if being crushed against a wall is your sort of thing - whatever floats your boat

[Leicfox]

Throw the lemon at him!

Hit the bread with the sword!

Did you watch part 2 ? The bit at the end, where he says Public School Filth.

[greenline]

shouldnt be catching late train then if you dont want it. fox travel seems a good idea for you, no offence. or a earlier train where their is a old bill presence.

just a suggestion

[The People's Hero]

Did you watch part 2 ? The bit at the end, where he says Public School Filth.

Yeah. My favourite bit is the gatekeeper bit.

'Answer this and you may pass. What is twelve plus four?'

BREADFIST HIM. HE'S DAZZLED, THROW THE LEMON AT HIM! RUN!

[Thracian]

My mate aged 12 and non-chav got smased up agaisnt a wall by a policeman during half time.

he wasnt the one crying though.

When I read things like this I believe all young people should train themselves in unarmed combat. Some police officiers I saw were simply standing in the ranks and hoping it would all pass over.

But others were up-front and clearly relishing a confrontation. I remember thinking at the time about the book I'd read about the Third Reich and how I imagined Hilter's henchmen must have seemed little different.

I get the feeling authoritarian bullying is on the increase, as is the eroding of people's freedoms.

Corralling railway passengers against their will and certainly people who weren't even going to the match is appalling - inexplicable when kids are supposed to be meeting parents - and whacking five-year-olds and 12-year-olds is indefensible if true.

I can remember getting six strokes of the cane and threatened with expulsion for "bullying" at school. My victim was eight inches taller than me and kicking the shit out of my mate while he was writhing on the floor in agony at the time but that was still "bullying".

So what does that that make a man in a uniform who (allegedly) whacks some five year old or (allegedly) plasters a 12-year-old against a wall?

I tell you what. Probably immune. Same as police officers who clock over 100mph in motor cars and get away with it while ordinary teenagers get done for 35/36 mph in a 30-limit, or police officers who shoot and kill an innocent foreigner in "mistake" for a terrorist.

What I wonder is why decent police officers are prepared to put up with colleagues (allegedly) hitting youngsters!

But then I suppose it is a toss-up which is most self-protecting. The Football Authorities or the Police.

[greenline]

please be quiet mate.....at the end of the day these people who didnt want to be involved had time to get out of their as was goign on for 15 mins before they hit out at us....

[Daggers]

You really did take a severe blow to a frontal lobe. Get to hospital quick Thracian and get it checked out - it could be serious.

1. You recommend that children should be trained to assault policemen

2. You liken the constabulary to the Third Reich

3. You have no evidence any child was assaulted

You're losing it.

[The People's Hero]

Agreed DB.

There needs to be a healthy dose of perspective prescribed here I think.

[greenline]

were you even at the game?

[Daggers]

Agreed DB.

There needs to be a healthy dose of perspective prescribed here I think.

And people need to be more pacific, oh damn...see how easy it it!

[The People's Hero]

were you even at the game?

No.

Does this mean I can't contribute to a discussion regarding policing at football matches?

[greenline]

well it does if your saying you have no evidence cos you wernt even their.....??

[Thracian]

You really did take a severe blow to a frontal lobe. Get to hospital quick Thracian and get it checked out - it could be serious.

1. You recommend that children should be trained to assault policemen

2. You liken the constabulary to the Third Reich

3. You have no evidence any child was assaulted

You're losing it.

a) I didn't recommend anyone assault policemen. Explain where I have ever said that? And exactly what is wrong with people being able to protect themselves when they are being assaulted.

b) That is exactly what some - and I said some in the first place - of the officers looked like to me. Bullies relishing a confrontation. Where you there. Did you disagree?.

c) I have no first-hand evidence but so many apparently unconnected references to the same incidents mean either that they happened or we've suddenly got a hell of a lot of liars on the site.

It's not me that's losing it. It's you that seems to have preconceived ideas about who is right and wrong in these situations - no matter who gets dragged into them.

[DaveyJ]

a) I didn't recommend anyone assault policemen. Explain where I have ever said that? And exactly what is wrong with people being able to protect themselves when they are being assaulted.

b) That is exactly what some - and I said some in the first place - of the officers looked like to me. Bullies relishing a confrontation. Were you there. Did you disagree?.

c) I have no first-hand evidence but so many apparently unconnected references to the same incident mean either that it happened or we've suddenly got a hell of a lot of liars on the site.

It's not me that's losing it. It's you that seems to have preconceived ideas about who is right and wrong in these situations - no matter who gets dragged into them.

I wasn't at the match, but it reminds me of what I saw a few years ago at a match. I don't exaclty remember who it was but i think it was maybe Grimsby vs Lincoln. Some of the so called fans were having a go at the police and it seemed were blatantly there for a fight, but it was clear that many of the policemen were also there for the fight too. I'm not defending the thugs that were causing trouble, but watching someone being pounded with a policeman's batton is unacceptable when they have already been overpowered. The police were not there to arrest they were there to fight back.

Obviously this is not all policemen and one hopes it is only a minority. But DB you shouldn't dismiss thracian's observations because it is clear to me that there are sections of the policer like this. whether they were there yesterdau i don't know, but i don't find it hard to believe.

[Daggers]

c) I have no first-hand evidence but so many apparently unconnected references to the same incident mean either that it happened or we've suddenly got a hell of a lot of liars on the site.

Liars is your term ~ why do you go on to attribute it to me in other posts? How dare you accuse me of twisting your words when you then go on to state that I have called people on this forum liars.

Your apology is expected.

[Thracian]

Liars is your term ~ why do you go on to attribute it to me in other posts? How dare you accuse me of twisting your words when you then go on to state that I have called people on this forum liars.

Your apology is expected.

If you will show me where I said you called anyone a liar then I might apologise but I would suggest you read the sentence again.

s far as I can see your interpretation is like the fairy story about me advocating young people attacking police officers.

I don't advocate anyone "attacking" anyone except with a football - police or fans - but if they do I am quite sure people have the right to protect or defend themselves, hopeless though it might be.

[Daggers]

If you will show me...

Thracian, I have had enough of having to read your nonsense today.

You said, and I quote "I wonder, instead of implying the fans might be liars, how he would feel if it were his 5-year-old getting bashed or his 12-year-old getting plastered against the wall?."

Put up or shut up.

[Thracian]

Thracian, I have had enough of having to read your nonsense today.

You said, and I quote "I wonder, instead of implying the fans might be liars, how he would feel if it were his 5-year-old getting bashed or his 12-year-old getting plastered against the wall?."

Put up or shut up.

No an "implication" isn't quite the same as saying you said they were liars is it?. But for the sake of spitting hairs and ending this nonsense I'll apologise for associating you with the word. We will clearly never agree on the issue at all.

[Hullfox]

When I read things like this I believe all young people should train themselves in unarmed combat. Some police officiers I saw were simply standing in the ranks and hoping it would all pass over.

But others were up-front and clearly relishing a confrontation. How do you know that for sure?

I remember thinking at the time about the book I'd read about the Third Reich and how I imagined Hilter's henchmen must have seemed little different. Your imagination, nothing else

I get the feeling authoritarian bullying is on the increase, as is the eroding of people's freedoms. Only a feeling then, nothing conclusive

Corralling railway passengers against their will and certainly people who weren't even going to the match is appalling - inexplicable when kids are supposed to be meeting parents - and whacking five-year-olds and 12-year-olds is indefensible if true. Note the comment "If true"

I can remember getting six strokes of the cane and threatened with expulsion for "bullying" at school. My victim was eight inches taller than me and kicking the shit out of my mate while he was writhing on the floor in agony at the time but that was still "bullying".

So what does that that make a man in a uniform who (allegedly) whacks some five year old or (allegedly) plasters a 12-year-old against a wall? Note the comment "Alledgedly"

I tell you what. Probably immune. Same as police officers who clock over 100mph in motor cars and get away with it while ordinary teenagers get done for 35/36 mph in a 30-limit, or police officers who shoot and kill an innocent foreigner in "mistake" for a terrorist. Note the comment "Probably"

What I wonder is why decent police officers are prepared to put up with colleagues (allegedly) hitting youngsters! ooh look there's that word again

But then I suppose it is a toss-up which is most self-protecting. The Football Authorities or the Police.

So, in quite a scathing post against an institution, you have not one shred of evidence to back up your point.

It's all about your slant on things.

You as ever use some clever and colourful language such as "relishing a confrontation" and "whacking 5 year olds" but your attack is peppered with the self defence of "alledgedly and probably" which you can use to appease anyone who questions your position.

Sensationalism.

[Thracian]

So, in quite a scathing post against an institution, you have not one shred of evidence to back up your point.

It's all about your slant on things.

You as ever use some clever and colourful language such as "relishing a confrontation" and "whacking 5 year olds" but your attack is peppered with the self defence of "alledgedly and probably" which you can use to appease anyone who questions your position.

Sensationalism.

Of course my comments are - unlike some others - qualified with the word alleged. Because whatever evidence there is from anyone is unproven at this stage.

Comments on actual happenenings might and probably will be given a different explanation to the ones forwarded on here, whatever version is proven or not proven to be true.

So in passing comment of course it is an opinion, a slant. What is when you express an opinion?

But to respond to your blue comments in order:

a) Having seen them that was my clear impression.

b) There wasn't a comment made up for effect. That was exactly what I felt at the time even before the action started.

c) It was described by me as a feeling. If I thought it was conclusive I'd have said so.

d) Of course "if true". If it is not true there is nothing to defend. But I have rightly alluded to the possibility that there might, just might, have been some other explanation for the incidents described.

e) Of course allegedly. It would be totally out of order not to say allegedly. But something clearly happened to a youngster.

f) Of course probably. What other word could you use to describe a conclusion that hasna't been arrived at?

g) Yet again, everything is an allegation until it is proved.

To me, it is perfectly clear there were various controversial incidents and they could well be the subject of some investigation. That being the case, even if I or anyone else had seen someone shot and killed that would only be an allegation and would have to be treated as such.

PS: I have commented on these incidents because having watched some of the build up I wondered where the idea of police using batons on fans could lead.

And this morning I read that there is "uproar in France" because a Paris St Germain fan was shot and killed by an undercover police officer in France after the UEFA Cup clash with Tel Aviv. The shooting apparently followed anti-Jewish chanting and racist chanting. Of course it is wrong to engage in such chanting. But it will be interesting to hear the justification for shooting a guy dead.

[Surreal Madrid]

As one who goes to most away games I must admit there were a large number of so-called supporters who certainly seemed up for causing trouble. I managed to get a pint from the bar that was later shut and stood on the right, and Lisa was right the bar and burger stall stayed open all the time. It really seemed like a bunch of Chavs intent on winding the police up - well they managed that, and I hope they feel really proud of themselves.

[Dr The Singh]

As one who goes to most away games I must admit there were a large number of so-called supporters who certainly seemed up for causing trouble. I managed to get a pint from the bar that was later shut and stood on the right, and Lisa was right the bar and burger stall stayed open all the time. It really seemed like a bunch of Chavs intent on winding the police up - well they managed that, and I hope they feel really proud of themselves.

Agreed, I must admit, on many occassions see morons who just go too far, there's being a passionate fan and then there's obnoxious!!! It's a though they think they have to behave like morons to prove they're such fanatical fans away from home!!!

Obviously this is a minority, but alot of people then get dragged into it, with masses of alcohol consumption, it's not very good!!!

[Thracian]

As one who goes to most away games I must admit there were a large number of so-called supporters who certainly seemed up for causing trouble. I managed to get a pint from the bar that was later shut and stood on the right, and Lisa was right the bar and burger stall stayed open all the time. It really seemed like a bunch of Chavs intent on winding the police up - well they managed that, and I hope they feel really proud of themselves.

I don't think there's anyone doubting that. Watch that word "seemed" though. If any police had "seemed" to relish a confrontation you'd have been taken to task!

Anyway for what it's worth I thought they "seemed" to be up for trouble too.

[ossieram]

I don't think there's anyone doubting that. Watch that word "seemed" though. If any police had "seemed" to relish a confrontation you'd have been taken to task!

Anyway for what it's worth I thought they "seemed" to be up for trouble too.

So you actualy believe that the police were glad that some morons decided to rob a kiosk and force it's closure because it gave them the chance to steam in and use their batons?

And a question that i asked last night has still not been answered by anyone on here.

If during the return fixture at the crisp bowl Derby fans tried robbing a kiosk and then started trying to damage your stadium,would you want the police to leave the area and let them carry on or would you want them to go and sort them out?