Who can speak Gaelic?

[lcfcire]

It could also have been my undoubtedly poor sentence structure and grammar at this stage

We have native speakers as teachers which helps, we try and do a bit of conversation as well as bookish stuff.

Try this this, it's ace... a few native speakers on there who are always willing to help: http://www.daltai.com/discus/messages/board-topics.html

i think your graspofthe language realy comes down to whether you want to learn the language or not and for most its not

[DB11]

I would love to be able to speak French but I cannot see why people would want to learn such languages as Welsh and Gaelic? Surely they are so old and out of date that they are more or less non existent?

Sure people may know them but do they speak them?

[Daggers]

Sure people may know them but do they speak them?

Yes

[Finnegan]

I was in the Amazon basin yesterday, popped into this Kamayura village for a pint. I could hear from half a mile away they were speaking fluent Queens English before I got there, they saw me coming and Christ. You'd think they'd never heard English before. It was all yakka clakka clik clik clik. What a bunch of insular, xenophobic pretenders.

[Lemon Harpic]

I was in the Amazon basin yesterday, popped into this Kamayura village for a pint. I could hear from half a mile away they were speaking fluent Queens English before I got there, they saw me coming and Christ. You'd think they'd never heard English before. It was all yakka clakka clik clik clik. What a bunch of insular, xenophobic pretenders.

I wondered how you'd react to Suffolk_fox's comment.

Admit that - gasp! - some Welsh people are insular and - shock! horror! - don't like the English? Hugely unlikely.

Concede the above briefly, but then take great lengths to try to downplay the extent of Welsh xenophobia? Still very unlikely as you would clearly see it as some sort of defeat to admit that not all Welsh people are forward-thinking, culturally-sensitive, enlightened thinkers.

Tell Suffolk_fox he is being paranoid, and posit another reason for the local's sudden change of language? More likely (as it absolves the Welsh of any bigotry), but what excuse could you fabricate to explain the instantaneous switch from English to Welsh?

Tell Suffolk_fox that it didn't happen, and he has never even been to Wales? I wouldn't be surprised.

Avoid any response? Yes, but why do that when you can...

...Avoid dealing with any of the issues raised by Suffolk_fox's experience and try unconvincinngly to make a joke out of the whole thing? Bingo!

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

CYMRU RYDD!

CYMRU GOCH!

[Webbo]

CYMRU RYDD!

CYMRU GOCH!

why would anyone in australia need/want to speak welsh?

[cisono]

why would anyone in australia need/want to speak welsh?

as a kind of secret code?

[Daggers]

why would anyone in australia need/want to speak welsh?

Sheep?

[Finnegan]

People in backwards little villages stereotypically hate outsiders. Whether they're Welsh, English, Botswanan or from some spithole called Yorkshire. I'm quite sure some nasty little prejudice country bumpkin has used Welsh as a tool for this, yes.

[Flynny]

...Avoid dealing with any of the issues raised by Suffolk_fox's experience and try unconvincinngly to make a joke out of the whole thing? Bingo!

Least you GOT a reply.

[Finnegan]

Because LH and Suffolk Fox are stating sociological opinion and offering it up for debate. You're trying to be pedantic to win an argument that no one's really having except you.

Yes, Wales has never been one, single, free nation. But that doesn't mean that the Welsh people do not have a shared sense of cultural identity that spans back to dot AD and the days of the Silures and Ordovices. The Jewish people spent thousands of years without an official state before 1948, you don't question Jewish identity or culture or the nation of Israel.

It also doesn't stop the fact that Wales, now, as a nation (which doesn't need "resurrecting", because it's alive and well) exists to the same political and cultural extent (if not greater in the latter department ) as England and your denouncing of Wales as a "proper nation" is a denouncing of your own country. I mean I could adopt the same sense of anal retention and point out that a Welshman was on the throne of England far more recently than any Englishman.

I'd like to point out that in modern, political politics my own stance on nationalism is a shakey one. I'm not sure whether I'd want to see a free and completely self governing Wales, I suppose I'll decide as I age and become more politically mature. That said, I do detest the blasé and condescending attitude many of the English I know have towards Wales and Welsh nationalism.

[Flynny]

Because LH and Suffolk Fox are stating sociological opinion and offering it up for debate. You're trying to be pedantic to win an argument that no one's really having except you.

Yes, Wales has never been one, single, free nation. But that doesn't mean that the Welsh people do not have a shared sense of cultural identity that spans back to dot AD and the days of the Silures and Ordovices. The Jewish people spent thousands of years without an official state before 1948, you don't question Jewish identity or culture or the nation of Israel.

It also doesn't stop the fact that Wales, now, as a nation (which doesn't need "resurrecting", because it's alive and well) exists to the same political and cultural extent (if not greater in the latter department ) as England and your denouncing of Wales as a "proper nation" is a denouncing of your own country.

I'd like to point out that in modern, political politics my own stance on nationalism is a shakey one. I'm not sure whether I'd want to see a free and completely self governing Wales, I suppose I'll decide as I age and become more politically mature. That said, I do detest the blasé and condescending attitude many of the English I know have towards Wales and Welsh nationalism.

And my point is that many groups of people share a cultural identity, possibly very strongly, but there's no need for them to run off making new countries all over the shop. The Israel situation is ridiculous and unlikely to be repeated - but that's religion for you, able to snatch the ludicrous from the perfectly calm with consumate ease. Wales, as far as I know, don't have any bond quite that powerful, despite an admittedly strong sense of national identity that has, in my opinion, been fired up recently both in Wales and Scotland mostly because of these nationalist groups.

No fooking shit on that second point. Yeah I completely forgot England and Wales were both constituant parts of one state whilst making this arguement. You win. But seriously, I know that. I don't want an independant England. The Welsh, the Scots, they're all deeply a part of BRITISH culture. Sean Connery strikes me as an example of this, a man most famous for playing the most famous fictitious Brit in the world. The Union Jack is far better known internationally than any of the other flags.

I have no problem with the idea of Wales as a culturally discrete unit, and its citizens being proud of that, but I strongly believe that it should be as a part of Britiain and not seperate from it. The two don't have to exclude each other, really.

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

The Welsh, the Scots, they're all deeply a part of BRITISH culture. Sean Connery strikes me as an example of this, a man most famous for playing the most famous fictitious Brit in the world. The Union Jack is far better known internationally than any of the other flags.

Need I point out that Sean Connery is a hun, though I suppose that only really cements your argument for those who would prefer to fly the butcher's apron over good ol' St. George.

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

why would anyone in australia need/want to speak welsh?

Don't know, I don't speak it. Cultural reasons perhaps?

[Finnegan]

And my point is that many groups of people share a cultural identity, possibly very strongly, but there's no need for them to run off making new countries all over the shop

Wales. Already. Is. A. Country. Whether or not the political / legal boundaries of said nation were constructed by the King of England (at the time, ironically, a Welshman) is irrelevant. What currently exists as Wales is a legally accepted constituent country of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, that houses what's accepted, in the Cymry (Welsh), as an ethnic group that sees itself as Celtic descendant in contrast to their Germanic descendant neighbours, the Angles or English.

You want to spend a few months living in Gwynedd and try convincing them they're no different to any other Briton, go for it. You want to go to the National Eisteddfod and convince yourself Welsh culture is no more remembered or established than that of, say, Leicestershire - you go for it, sunshine. Hell, you want to sit in the Temple come March 17th as Shaneo's roaring over the line to dump you boys again and tell me there's no sense of collective national identity after 70k Welshmen holler out Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, Calon Lan, Cwm Rhondda, Men of Harlech or Yma o Hyd, you go for it. You're welcome to your opinion, matey.

But if all you've got to offer up is "Wales was never technically a unified nation" then all I've got for you is a shrug. So?

[Lemon Harpic]

Wales. Already. Is. A. Country. ... What currently exists as Wales is a legally accepted constituent country of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Principality.

[Flynny]

Wales. Already. Is. A. Country. Whether or not the political / legal boundaries of said nation were constructed by the King of England (at the time, ironically, a Welshman) is irrelevant. What currently exists as Wales is a legally accepted constituent country of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, that houses what's accepted, in the Cymry (Welsh), as an ethnic group that sees itself as Celtic descendant in contrast to their Germanic descendant neighbours, the Angles or English.

You want to spend a few months living in Gwynedd and try convincing them they're no different to any other Briton, go for it. You want to go to the National Eisteddfod and convince yourself Welsh culture is no more remembered or established than that of, say, Leicestershire - you go for it, sunshine. Hell, you want to sit in the Temple come March 17th as Shaneo's roaring over the line to dump you boys again and tell me there's no sense of collective national identity after 70k Welshmen holler out Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, Calon Lan, Cwm Rhondda, Men of Harlech or Yma o Hyd, you go for it. You're welcome to your opinion, matey.

But if all you've got to offer up is "Wales was never technically a unified nation" then all I've got for you is a shrug. So?

I didn't even say 'just as much as Leicestershire' this time. And as I've pointed out before, Wales does get called a country, but in it's definition as a nation or a state, it's not actually a country. Pre Welsh-Assembly, it's was as much a 'country' as, say, North Dakota. LH above me has it right.

You might want to act superior, but where have I said that they have 'no sense of national identity'? If I'm being pedantic, you're twisting my words completely. My point is just because a group of people are culturally distinct in no reason to cut them loose and say "okay do it yourself".

I have no sources or information on this, but if Wales were it's own nation, surely it'd suffer pretty heavily economically?

[Webbo]

i've just checked the figures from the referendum;

turnout 50.1 %

for an assembley 50.3%

against 49.7

spoilt ballot papers 4003

that means around 25% of wales voted for an assembly, around 25% voted against and 50% couldn't care less. hardly a nation crying out for freedom.

[Daggers]

i've just checked the figures from the referendum;

turnout 50.1 %

for an assembley 50.3%

against 49.7

spoilt ballot papers 4003

that means around 25% of wales voted for an assembly, around 25% voted against and 50% couldn't care less. hardly a nation crying out for freedom.

But those figures are indicative of sentiment are they, simply reflecting a disatisfaction with the political system that can be found in England too?

[Finnegan]

I didn't even say 'just as much as Leicestershire' this time. And as I've pointed out before, Wales does get called a country, but in it's definition as a nation or a state, it's not actually a country. Pre Welsh-Assembly, it's was as much a 'country' as, say, North Dakota.

I'm really trying my best to not use Wikipedia as a resource here, because it's a rather weak one to use and I do accept any mocking for my doing so. That said, I'm in a rush to get to a party and am far too lazy to find another.

The Principality of Wales (Welsh: Tywysogaeth Cymru; pronounced IPA: /ˈkəmrɨ/, approximately "COME-ree") is one of the four constituent N A T I O N S of the United Kingdom.

I don't REALLY see why we were actually arguing over this in the first place, I know you know and accept Wales is a country whether you think it should be independent from the United Kingdom or not. You know that, the rest of Britain knows that.

& I'm not even rising to the principality jibe. Not that being a principality devalues a country's status as a nation anyway, Lichtenstein anyone?

I have no sources or information on this, but if Wales were it's own nation, surely it'd suffer pretty heavily economically?

I don't know, I'm not an economics student. That said, in tin, coal and most notably, gold, Wales has a surprising range and quantity of natural resources along with a vibrant tourist industry that would only be complimented by independence.

[Webbo]

I don't know, I'm not an economics student. That said, in tin, coal and most notably, gold, Wales has a surprising range and quantity of natural resources along with a vibrant tourist industry that would only be complimented by independence.

from what i know of the welsh gold industry it amounts to 5 royal wedding rings and neil kinnocks fillings, i wouldn't rely on that too much to keep a country going.

[James.]

from what i know of the welsh gold industry it amounts to 5 royal wedding rings and neil kinnocks fillings, i wouldn't rely on that too much to keep a country going.

the economic argument is one that Finnegan should avoid.

in terms of absolute size it's the 43rd largest economy in the world and one of the poorest regions (in terms of gdp per capita) in the UK.