Tiatto joins our restraining team

[Thracian]

I dont understand why people like you have knee-jerk reactions on clubs and are now saying Arsenal are evolving. I suppose that has got something to do with the fact that there kids have played well in the cups??? Last season they got to the Champs League final and you would have thought they would have moved on. Instead, they have gone backwards or at best stagnated. They have a fantastic squad of players, many IMO who are too similar and because of this Wenger isnt totally sure who his best team is. One thing is for sure, if he plays both Henry and Adebayor they look much weaker in midfield and he wouldnt know who to drop. Too many cooks at Arsenal IMO.

As for you constantly asking for us to be more like them and Man Utd, its lunacy. You cant try and play that way with the mediocre players we have. You need to have some real special players who would cost millions to even attempt to play that way. You need a reality check fella.

We have players who are perfectly capable pf passing the ball properly and then moving. It is a matter of instilling good habits.

The alternative to doing this is remain in in the championship for the forseeable future.

We have so many players who track folk and battle for the ball and we turn them into mini-heroes conveniently forgetting how, once they win the ball, they so often give it straight back to the opposition.

They do this, not because they are lousy players but because they've got lousy habits. They try to play the difficult ball instead of the simple one.

[Geo V]

We have players who are perfectly capable pf passing the ball properly and then moving. It is a matter of instilling good habits.

The alternative to doing this is remain in in the championship for the forseeable future.

We have so many players who track folk and battle for the ball and we turn them into mini-heroes conveniently forgetting how, once they win the ball, they so often give it straight back to the opposition.

They do this, not because they are lousy players but because they've got lousy habits. They try to play the difficult ball instead of the simple one.

Its not as simple as that and you know it! It all depends on how much space you are given by the opposition and what ability each player has in either reading a pass or judging the weight of it. The test is if you have the players who can make incisive passes or hacve players who can make the runs and get there if a key pass if provided. Many of the countries best clubs have failed in the last third due to lack of quality and you expect a Championship side that has been compiled with Bosmans, kids and cheapo players to play like Brazil!

[Thracian]

Its not as simple as that and you know it! It all depends on how much space you are given by the opposition and what ability each player has in either reading a pass or judging the weight of it. The test is if you have the players who can make incisive passes or hacve players who can make the runs and get there if a key pass if provided. Many of the countries best clubs have failed in the last third due to lack of quality and you expect a Championship side that has been compiled with Bosmans, kids and cheapo players to play like Brazil!

Your negativity and defeatism just bewilders me yet seems endemic. The speed with which we pass and move is largely in our hands and has much to do with how fit we are collectively - not a strong point this season from the observations of many.

You only have to watch a training session to know that many of our players are capable of passing and moving but just haven't made a habit of it when we're under pressure - and I mean psychological as much as physical pressure ie when we have scored and the fear of a mistake creeps in.

But floating aimless passes in the vague direction of forwards IS a mistake. It's just that no-one takes much notice because the floated ball is usually going into what seems to be a fairly safe area.

But it still gifts possession to the opposition and people still have to chase around to get the ball back as a result. The chasing adds up, especially with the zonal marking system everyone now favours.

In short floating aimless passes is a cop out - the easy option because the passer doesn't get blamed so easily as when a simple 10-yarder goes astray. But he should.

Retaining possession is the Holy Grail of football and a great deal of our redoubled and retrebled efforts on the training ground should be focused on exactly that to the point where short, sharp passes become as instinctive as breathing and the movement afterwards just the same.

But make no mistake. While it isn't difficult it does hurt. You can't use half-fit players to do it but doubtless we'll try again before long.

[hebangsthedrums]

Thracian you seem to miss the point that if the solution was that simple then every team in the league would be doing it. If it wer possible to achieve results with mediocre plyers by making them pass and move and attack aggressively, then surely every team in the country would be doing it?

They are not and the reason is it is not that simple. You can put 11 cloggers against 11 cloggers with one team doing as you say and they would probably get beat. Why? Because the style of play is beyond them, or at least beyond them to work at an effective level.

Do you think if Bolton tried to play total football they would beat Arsenal and Chelsea? I don't, the reason they are hard to beat is they play to their strengths.

I wish City's strengths was pretty passing football and attacking play, but it is not, and as others have mentioned to make it so would cost a few million.

[Joe.]

Thracian you seem to miss the point that if the solution was that simple then every team in the league would be doing it. If it wer possible to achieve results with mediocre plyers by making them pass and move and attack aggressively, then surely every team in the country would be doing it?

They are not and the reason is it is not that simple. You can put 11 cloggers against 11 cloggers with one team doing as you say and they would probably get beat. Why? Because the style of play is beyond them, or at least beyond them to work at an effective level.

Do you think if Bolton tried to play total football they would beat Arsenal and Chelsea? I don't, the reason they are hard to beat is they play to their strengths.

I wish City's strengths was pretty passing football and attacking play, but it is not, and as others have mentioned to make it so would cost a few million.

I think you've nailed it there

We don't have any particular strengths that's why we're a mediocre team sitting in a mediocre position.

[STUHILL]

Your negativity and defeatism just bewilders me yet seems endemic. The speed with which we pass and move is largely in our hands and has much to do with how fit we are collectively - not a strong point this season from the observations of many.

You only have to watch a training session to know that many of our players are capable of passing and moving but just haven't made a habit of it when we're under pressure - and I mean psychological as much as physical pressure ie when we have scored and the fear of a mistake creeps in.

But floating aimless passes in the vague direction of forwards IS a mistake. It's just that no-one takes much notice because the floated ball is usually going into what seems to be a fairly safe area.

But it still gifts possession to the opposition and people still have to chase around to get the ball back as a result. The chasing adds up, especially with the zonal marking system everyone now favours.

In short floating aimless passes is a cop out - the easy option because the passer doesn't get blamed so easily as when a simple 10-yarder goes astray. But he should.

Retaining possession is the Holy Grail of football and a great deal of our redoubled and retrebled efforts on the training ground should be focused on exactly that to the point where short, sharp passes become as instinctive as breathing and the movement afterwards just the same.

But make no mistake. While it isn't difficult it does hurt. You can't use half-fit players to do it but doubtless we'll try again before long.

Thracian you come across as someone who thinks themselves a footballing genius at times! Really gets on my nerves . I want them to play attractive, Arsenal like football too, but the difference between me and you is, I understand the REALITY of the situation.

Until we can get some better quality players in the summer, and even then It will be difficult, your style of play is not an option. Sure you will say all we need is a 'fine tuning' or some youth players in the starting 11 but in reality this will not achieve the standard of football you constantly stress we should be playing!

This is definately my final comment on this issue, because it's frustrating and you obviously need a reality check!

[Geo V]

Your negativity and defeatism just bewilders me yet seems endemic. The speed with which we pass and move is largely in our hands and has much to do with how fit we are collectively - not a strong point this season from the observations of many.

You only have to watch a training session to know that many of our players are capable of passing and moving but just haven't made a habit of it when we're under pressure - and I mean psychological as much as physical pressure ie when we have scored and the fear of a mistake creeps in.

But floating aimless passes in the vague direction of forwards IS a mistake. It's just that no-one takes much notice because the floated ball is usually going into what seems to be a fairly safe area.

But it still gifts possession to the opposition and people still have to chase around to get the ball back as a result. The chasing adds up, especially with the zonal marking system everyone now favours.

In short floating aimless passes is a cop out - the easy option because the passer doesn't get blamed so easily as when a simple 10-yarder goes astray. But he should.

Retaining possession is the Holy Grail of football and a great deal of our redoubled and retrebled efforts on the training ground should be focused on exactly that to the point where short, sharp passes become as instinctive as breathing and the movement afterwards just the same.

But make no mistake. While it isn't difficult it does hurt. You can't use half-fit players to do it but doubtless we'll try again before long.

Im hardly defeatist fella, infact I am a realist who wants the best for his club without paying cloud cuckoo land a visit every now and again as your goodself.

As Stuhill touched on, you make out as if you are a genius but all you are offering up is an impossible dream. A fantasy world where Tiatto, AJ, Hughes, Levi, Maybury and the rest all deliver beautiful weighted passes at pace and the amazing one touch style of football is ended by some fantastic finishing by our deadly strikers. The reality is that not even 2/3rds of the Premiership can play like that, if not more!

As for watching teams train, I have watched far better sides than our current bunch train and know full well what many are capable of. However, in the heat of battle, with some 6ft goon steaming in at you, you havent got the time on the ball to play the pitter patter football that you keep going on about. To even think of playing that way we need the right personnel in and we are far from having them unless of course you will try to persuade me that King, Gradel, Dodds, Sheehan and the rest of the kids are the ones to do it???!!

Instead of living in dream land, lets get realistic and state with the current squad that we have, we wont be playing too much fancy football. Lets also see what happens in the summer on the players front and if a manager who has more tactical awareness than RK comes in to try and take the clubs footballing ideas to another direction.

[Thracian]

Im hardly defeatist fella, infact I am a realist who wants the best for his club without paying cloud cuckoo land a visit every now and again as your goodself.

As Stuhill touched on, you make out as if you are a genius but all you are offering up is an impossible dream. A fantasy world where Tiatto, AJ, Hughes, Levi, Maybury and the rest all deliver beautiful weighted passes at pace and the amazing one touch style of football is ended by some fantastic finishing by our deadly strikers. The reality is that not even 2/3rds of the Premiership can play like that, if not more!

As for watching teams train, I have watched far better sides than our current bunch train and know full well what many are capable of. However, in the heat of battle, with some 6ft goon steaming in at you, you havent got the time on the ball to play the pitter patter football that you keep going on about. To even think of playing that way we need the right personnel in and we are far from having them unless of course you will try to persuade me that King, Gradel, Dodds, Sheehan and the rest of the kids are the ones to do it???!!

Instead of living in dream land, lets get realistic and state with the current squad that we have, we wont be playing too much fancy football. Lets also see what happens in the summer on the players front and if a manager who has more tactical awareness than RK comes in to try and take the clubs footballing ideas to another direction.

If you equate passing with pitter patter you insult some good teams and some damned good players.

And the very concept of pitter patter is a long way off my approach.

It's not me that's in fantasy land - pass and move is the way it needs to be if we want success. And we can start on that road now or we can bang our heads on the ground some more - like we have been doing for years with the sort of football you seem to think is adequate.

As for the kids you can exaggerate what I say all you like but my stance is this:

* Dodds is different style but is every bit as good as Horsfield - better in my view. But whether he's good enough for our first team I don't know but would like to find out. Where's the risk with Horsfield offering so little?

* Gradel is a defensive risk but he's direct and does what no other right winger has done at City for years - he shoots, he scores and he makes goals. Whether he's ready yet I'm not sure but see no harm in giving him some cameos considering the people we do use in that position.

* Sheehan seems to suffer from niggling injuries and looks less and less likely to get a chance here any time soon. Right nopw he looks way out of the picture.

* Andy King is to my mind exactly the sort of player we need in our midfield right now and for so many reasons. He seems to have got far more to offer than Jarrett, Johnson, Hughes, Tiatto as an attacker and we'll only find out if he can adapt to the Championship by easing him into that standard and watching what happens.

Again, what's to lose? Jarrett barely gave Porter a pass at Southend and has been no threat at all so far. Johnson was appalling in the same game and our entire central and right side midfield is often an embarrassment apart from their collective defending.

So you see, I don't say any of those kids are world beaters or even certain to establish in the first team. I'm just saying now is the time to start finding out what, if anything, they can contribute...and no, not all at the same time either.

[Geo V]

If you equate passing with pitter patter you insult some good teams and some damned good players.

And the very concept of pitter patter is a long way off my approach.

It's not me that's in fantasy land - pass and move is the way it needs to be if we want success. And we can start on that road now or we can bang our heads on the ground some more - like we have been doing for years with the sort of football you seem to think is adequate.

As for the kids you can exaggerate what I say all you like but my stance is this:

* Dodds is different style but is every bit as good as Horsfield - better in my view. But whether he's good enough for our first team I don't know but would like to find out. Where's the risk with Horsfield offering so little?

* Gradel is a defensive risk but he's direct and does what no other right winger has done at City for years - he shoots, he scores and he makes goals. Whether he's ready yet I'm not sure but see no harm in giving him some cameos considering the people we do use in that position.

* Sheehan seems to suffer from niggling injuries and looks less and less likely to get a chance here any time soon. Right nopw he looks way out of the picture.

* Andy King is to my mind exactly the sort of player we need in our midfield right now and for so many reasons. He seems to have got far more to offer than Jarrett, Johnson, Hughes, Tiatto as an attacker and we'll only find out if he can adapt to the Championship by easing him into that standard and watching what happens.

Again, what's to lose? Jarrett barely gave Porter a pass at Southend and has been no threat at all so far. Johnson was appalling in the same game and our entire central and right side midfield is often an embarrassment apart from their collective defending.

So you see, I don't say any of those kids are world beaters or even certain to establish in the first team. I'm just saying now is the time to start finding out what, if anything, they can contribute...and no, not all at the same time either.

Ive admitted we should ease the kids into the first team to see what they have got as one of them could come from nowhere to become a real talent, just as Giles Barnes at Derby who came from nowhere after a debut last season.

As for footballing styles, as an English born Greek-Cypriot man I can say that I enjoyed Greece`s 2004 Euro success immensely despite us not playing the best free flowing football in the competition. Greece we competent and hardly flamboyant and did teh simple things correctly and were extremely difficult to beat. The work ethic was amazing and they were organised with every individual knowing there tasks and made sure they stuck to them. On the flipside, my favourite ever footballing team to watch was Brazil in the 1982 world cup. Amazing football, quality players everywhere from Socrates to Falcao, Zico to Eder but they got knocked out by Italy trying to do too much.

At Leicester, we need to do the simple things to the best of our ability and forget about playing football that our players are not capable of playing. One touch passing and moving isnt as easy as it sounds against opposition players and not as easy as it sounds or looks on the training ground that you view. Also, you are slightly hindered in your thinking as you watch the academy kids and there approach and think that it would be natural to do that with any players when the reality is, you simply cannot.

[Thracian]

Ive admitted we should ease the kids into the first team to see what they have got as one of them could come from nowhere to become a real talent, just as Giles Barnes at Derby who came from nowhere after a debut last season.

As for footballing styles, as an English born Greek-Cypriot man I can say that I enjoyed Greece`s 2004 Euro success immensely despite us not playing the best free flowing football in the competition. Greece we competent and hardly flamboyant and did teh simple things correctly and were extremely difficult to beat. The work ethic was amazing and they were organised with every individual knowing there tasks and made sure they stuck to them. On the flipside, my favourite ever footballing team to watch was Brazil in the 1982 world cup. Amazing football, quality players everywhere from Socrates to Falcao, Zico to Eder but they got knocked out by Italy trying to do too much.

At Leicester, we need to do the simple things to the best of our ability and forget about playing football that our players are not capable of playing. One touch passing and moving isnt as easy as it sounds against opposition players and not as easy as it sounds or looks on the training ground that you view. Also, you are slightly hindered in your thinking as you watch the academy kids and there approach and think that it would be natural to do that with any players when the reality is, you simply cannot.

Playing football is doing the simple things...but all the time not just in little spells until we score.

[DB11]

Tiatto and Jarrett in central midfield would be great to see! They both have excellent work rates.

[Webbo]

tiatto and jarret are too similar in style, if tiatto plays it has to be for jarret.

[l444ry]

Just like you won't win the Greyhound Derby with a Bulldog, you won't get promotion with this squad either. Comparing the acheivements of Arsene Wenger, Alex Fergeson or Jose Mourinho with Leicester City is as relevant to the argument as Piltdown man was to evolution.

[Thracian]

Thracian you seem to miss the point that if the solution was that simple then every team in the league would be doing it. If it wer possible to achieve results with mediocre plyers by making them pass and move and attack aggressively, then surely every team in the country would be doing it?

They are not and the reason is it is not that simple. You can put 11 cloggers against 11 cloggers with one team doing as you say and they would probably get beat. Why? Because the style of play is beyond them, or at least beyond them to work at an effective level.

Do you think if Bolton tried to play total football they would beat Arsenal and Chelsea? I don't, the reason they are hard to beat is they play to their strengths.

I wish City's strengths was pretty passing football and attacking play, but it is not, and as others have mentioned to make it so would cost a few million.

Why do so many fans seem content to carry on in the same overloaded defensive vein?

Why do they seem afraid to advocate the steps which will lead to change.

Defensive overload or simply stiffling football has been a failure. Last year we had to scramble away from the relegation places and this year we have underperformed almost as badly scoring far fewer goals than we ever need to have any chance of success - and for obvious reasons.

Now, despite being safe, we seem to be supplementing our team with a succession of no more than ordinary players just because they carry the label "experienced" rather than any particular talents they seem to have.

People keep saying they'd rather trust RK than any armchair critic and you'd think that would be fair enough.

But six right wingers in one season! That's hardly reassuring in terms of professional judgement.

Anyway, for all that I wish Shaun Newton the very best. I hope he has a belting debut whenever it happns and that he proves to represent an improvement in the position.

[hebangsthedrums]

Why do so many fans seem content to carry on in the same overloaded defensive vein?

If you have inferred this from my post, then you are wrong. I would like city to play more aggressively, but the way you talk it is like it is a fact that if we did we would win 4-0 every game. I think you are wrong for the reasons I mentioned in my other post. As for other fans maybe they are just happy to play for points and they don't think the tactics you propose will get results.

Why do they seem afraid to advocate the steps which will lead to change.

? I am perfectly willing to advocate change, but with the right personnel, I am unwilling to at the moemnt because with this squad we would get trounced

Defensive overload or simply stiffling football has been a failure. Last year we had to scramble away from the relegation places and this year we have underperformed almost as badly scoring far fewer goals than we ever need to have any chance of success - and for obvious reasons.

Yes we have a shite team

Now, despite being safe, we seem to be supplementing our team with a succession of no more than ordinary players just because they carry the label "experienced" rather than any particular talents they seem to have.

I agree with this I don't see the need for Newton

People keep saying they'd rather trust RK than any armchair critic and you'd think that would be fair enough.

But six right wingers in one season! That's hardly reassuring in terms of professional judgement.

Maybe, maybe not - there are the financial factors to consider. Even if it is just shite judgement I would still trust it ahead of an armchair fan who seems so naive. Sorry!

Anyway, for all that I wish Shaun Newton the very best. I hope he has a belting debut whenever it happns and that he proves to represent an improvement in the position.

Thracian, I don't know why you have quoted my initial post, as yours has little to do with it - it doesn't appear to address anything I said. I have put my responses to your post underneath

[Simi]

He's back in the squad today. No doubt Kelly will be looking to give him 15 mins to get 'some' fitness back.

[Thracian]

Thracian, I don't know why you have quoted my initial post, as yours has little to do with it - it doesn't appear to address anything I said. I have put my responses to your post underneath

Of course we need better players but we are perfectly capable of playing far better football even with the personnel we already have.

That's my opinion. It's impossible to provide conclusive proof because never once. except in cup matches, have we ever attempted to play tat way.

It's ironic though that two of our best performances this season were against Villa and Fulham twice. In fact I felt a big factor in all three or those games was fitness and questionable late-in-the-game leadership.

[hebangsthedrums]

Of course we need better players but we are perfectly capable of playing far better football even with the personnel we already have.

That's my opinion. It's impossible to provide conclusive proof because never once. except in cup matches, have we ever attempted to play tat way.

It's ironic though that two of our best performances this season were against Villa and Fulham twice. In fact I felt a big factor in all three or those games was fitness and questionable late-in-the-game leadership.

Thats the point - I agree we could play nice looking football (still not brazil mind), but if we did we would get beaten as we could not do it to an adequate degree. Yes it is impossible to provide proof, but does the fact that teams with squads like us do NOT play like not make you wonder why? I think at this level systems pale in importance to players. Whatever system we play we will not be more than a mediocre team If we got better players we could play the same style, or more attacing and either way we would be a better side

[Geo V]

Thats the point - I agree we could play nice looking football (still not brazil mind), but if we did we would get beaten as we could not do it to an adequate degree. Yes it is impossible to provide proof, but does the fact that teams with squads like us do NOT play like not make you wonder why? I think at this level systems pale in importance to players. Whatever system we play we will not be more than a mediocre team If we got better players we could play the same style, or more attacing and either way we would be a better side

I disagree! We havent got the personnel to play nice football and thats the point! I`d love us to be able to play great football but the donkeys that I saw today could hardly string a pass together. Asking these average players to try and play fast acurate passes is suicidal.

The quicker we have a total squad overhaul and a manager in position to attract good footballers who are fit and have energy, the better. We need to act quickly to snap up the Bosmans though and that smeans RK out asap.