Thracian Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 Commeth the hour commeth the man - and every way I view it that man is Andy King. Would someone tell me how Kishishev shapes up as the better option? Consider things like: a) Reading the game b) Passing accuracy c) Speed of passing d) Current match fitness e) Creative ability f) Goalscoring ability g) Versatility h) Tackling i) Ability in support of defence j) Ability in support of attack. k) mobility l) stamina When I tried this with various players including Kishishev, Newton, Chambers even Porter I had Andy King ahead by more than 10 points. You might view it differently try to be fair. Don't get me wrong, Kishishev has his strengths and, overall, I like him as a player. But to me if we're going to have two up front, King is just what we've been needing to come through from midfield. But tear my argument apart by all means.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 Who? Why haven't you mentioned him before?
Bryn Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 If he's as good as you say he is the best option.
Joe. Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 Thracian he's never made it anywhere near the first team squad for a reason.
Jimmy Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 Thracian he's never made it anywhere near the first team squad for a reason. you had to say that, cue Thracian rant about management teams ...
Thracian Posted 20 September 2007 Author Posted 20 September 2007 Thracian he's never made it anywhere near the first team squad for a reason. I don't thiink the reason had anything to do with ability. Not having watched Jarrett and Hughes for weeks on end. But my mind is open. I've still seen no reasons. What I'd like to know is why fans think Kishishev, Chambers or Newton (no-one's opted for Porter) are all better than King in midfield.
Lillehamring Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 i'm sure it's a reasonably just theory, thrac, but even if logic dictates that king is the best man for the job, if the manager has a certain stlye of player or requirements of a position in mind, all logic can go out of the window... i mean, it could simply come down to experience, in which case, all of the criteria you have listed are effectively redundant... personally, i think megson putting in king would open him up to much heavier criticism if king fails, whereas if kishishev has a bad game it'll be easier and more accepted for megson to be critical of the player. as far as a dilema, i'll take this over the kind of horror dilemas of last season anyday!
breadandcheese Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 When I tried this with various players including Kishishev, Newton, Chambers even Porter I had Andy King ahead by more than 10 points. You might view it differently try to be fair. Is that an admission that Porter, in his best position of centre-mid, isn't good enough to be a first-team player? I would play Kishishev as it's his old team so hopefully he'll have a blinder. Nothing more to go on than that.
AyewJoking Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 I'll bet you a custard cream its Kishishev.
Bareknucklefoxer. Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 Commeth the hour commeth the man - and every way I view it that man is Andy King.Would someone tell me how Kishishev shapes up as the better option? Consider things like: a) Reading the game b) Passing accuracy c) Speed of passing d) Current match fitness e) Creative ability f) Goalscoring ability g) Versatility h) Tackling i) Ability in support of defence j) Ability in support of attack. k) mobility l) stamina When I tried this with various players including Kishishev, Newton, Chambers even Porter I had Andy King ahead by more than 10 points. You might view it differently try to be fair. Don't get me wrong, Kishishev has his strengths and, overall, I like him as a player. But to me if we're going to have two up front, King is just what we've been needing to come through from midfield. But tear my argument apart by all means. After watching King against Lincoln reserves I thought he made things tick over very nicely, especially in the first half. I think he enjoyed partnering Hellings as he fed some quality balls threw to him, however when Hellings went off injured he lost his way a bit, probably the fact that he didn't have anyone making those darting runs from off his shoulder which meant Matty Fryatt had to drop and fetch. I'd give him a go, especially after watching Kishishev last Saturday, looked like he was lost ! At least with young King you know he'd run his balls off for us, and he has an eye for a pass.
Thracian Posted 20 September 2007 Author Posted 20 September 2007 i'm sure it's a reasonably just theory, thrac, but even if logic dictates that king is the best man for the job, if the manager has a certain stlye of player or requirements of a position in mind, all logic can go out of the window...i mean, it could simply come down to experience, in which case, all of the criteria you have listed are effectively redundant... personally, i think megson putting in king would open him up to much heavier criticism if king fails, whereas if kishishev has a bad game it'll be easier and more accepted for megson to be critical of the player. as far as a dilema, i'll take this over the kind of horror dilemas of last season anyday! Basically then, like Kelly, it's all about fear again. Experience is theoretically safer. Do managers seriously sit there and worry before games about players failing? You might be right but it never crossed my mind once. And the other thing is this. How does King get experience if no-one picks him? Seriously, yes I'd play him, but I wouldn't mind King on the bench. It's a big responsibility starting a debutant in an away match and Kishishev, assuming he is match fit (which may not be the case) has played enough football to do a good job despite my reservations. But my point is that fans would sooner move people like Chambers and Newton out of position, or choose an out and out defensive midfielder, rather than go for a specialist young player who has a wide range of midfield talents and who can get into the opposition box on occasions.
Lovejoy Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 I don't thiink the reason had anything to do with ability. Not having watched Jarrett and Hughes for weeks on end.But my mind is open. I've still seen no reasons. What I'd like to know is why fans think Kishishev, Chambers or Newton (no-one's opted for Porter) are all better than King in midfield. The only reason is that they are familiar with these proven players. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing King get a chance but It's unlikely.
Thracian Posted 20 September 2007 Author Posted 20 September 2007 Is that an admission that Porter, in his best position of centre-mid, isn't good enough to be a first-team player? I would play Kishishev as it's his old team so hopefully he'll have a blinder. Nothing more to go on than that. I always saw Porter as a squad player this season anyway. Competition has increased. But the job on Saturday requires a principally defensive central midfield player who can also offer some of the support Wesolowski always offered. If we needed an attacking central midfield player, maybe Porter would have been closer. But King is comfortable defending. He's six feet tall, a goodish header of the ball, passes very quickly and accurately across a broadish range and yet still provides a dangerous presence in the opponents box, particularly from free-kicks and corners but also through his habit of ghosting into goalscoring areas unseen. Porter covers space well defensively but is never going to be principally a defender. He doesn't have King's aerial presence and I don't think he is ever likely to have the number of shots King manages when given licence to attack. King has a lot of effect and Porter, right now, seems to have lost some. People do. It'll come back but right now, of the two, I'd choose King in central midfield because, quite apart from the above, he's quite at home on the right flank too and would be able to provide cover and options for Kaebi/Chambers, if they play.
Bert Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 Commeth the hour commeth the man - and every way I view it that man is Andy King.Would someone tell me how Kishishev shapes up as the better option? Consider things like: a) Reading the game b) Passing accuracy c) Speed of passing d) Current match fitness e) Creative ability f) Goalscoring ability g) Versatility h) Tackling i) Ability in support of defence j) Ability in support of attack. k) mobility l) stamina When I tried this with various players including Kishishev, Newton, Chambers even Porter I had Andy King ahead by more than 10 points. You might view it differently try to be fair. Don't get me wrong, Kishishev has his strengths and, overall, I like him as a player. But to me if we're going to have two up front, King is just what we've been needing to come through from midfield. But tear my argument apart by all means. That's all your opinion. But in the mean time, get it over it it aint gonna happen, let him properly develop.
Thracian Posted 20 September 2007 Author Posted 20 September 2007 That's all your opinion. But in the mean time, get it over it it aint gonna happen, let him properly develop. This isn't some novice. He's spent years developing. Both here and at Chelsea.
Bert Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 You've been banging on about him for ages now. If he really was that good, he'd at least've made the bench by now.
Koke Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 I don't know how you expect Porter at 5'3 with no real strength to survive in the centre of the park. He gets knocked about by full backs, so what chances does he have to survive right in the middle. As for King, I agree with you to an extend. I'd like to see him come off the bench but to start him above Kish in a tough away game is nonsense. And besides, no one (including me) has really watched this guy on regular basis to say that he should be ahead of Newton and the crew.
breadandcheese Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 You've been banging on about him for ages now. If he really was that good, he'd at least've made the bench by now. Did he not make the bench last season or am I making that up?
stevec Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 I thinks its bad enough having to fall back on Sheehan and Mattock - having another (King) player in the first team being unexperienced and slightly out of their depth at this stage of their development would make us mincemeat for any opposition surely? To be fair - I have not seen King play - but the above stands as if he was better than Sheehan, Mattock surely we would have seen something of him. Time to move Hume off that right wing and play in a forward midfield role with Clem behind him and us play some width for a change. Failing that would have to be Kis just because he's an experienced pro who apparantely did well for leeds in that position last season.
Thracian Posted 20 September 2007 Author Posted 20 September 2007 I don't know how you expect Porter at 5'3 with no real strength to survive in the centre of the park. He gets knocked about by full backs, so what chances does he have to survive right in the middle. As for King, I agree with you to an extend. I'd like to see him come off the bench but to start him above Kish in a tough away game is nonsense. And besides, no one (including me) has really watched this guy on regular basis to say that he should be ahead of Newton and the crew. Newton has attacking ability and cracked a brace of goals for the Reserves recently but I wouldn't see him as having defensive attributes.
Pete_foxes Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 Kishishev will play I think. However I wouldn't pick him. Andy King why not give him a go.. what are the other options? Stearman, Hellings,Kishishev.
Geo V Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 Clem can play the holding role so why would we necessarily need another more defensively minded midfielder? Anyway, Im not sure about King as I have never seen him play. If he was that good surely he would have made the bench for us this season? Kishishev is a decent player but from what I have seen was behind the pace of his team mates. I dont know if its father time catching up on him or what as it was only a few months ago that Leeds fans were raving about him as Premiership class after a loan spell with them. Stearman is an option I suppose but doesn't convince me and Levi would be clueless in the centre. One decent game in the reserves for Newton shouldnt elevate him to next best central midfielder and Chambers should be used at right-back to get the best of him for me. I think I`d opt for Kishishev for Charlton, especially as its his former club so will want to impress and if he doesnt work out there, then we can talk again.
Lillehamring Posted 20 September 2007 Posted 20 September 2007 Basically then, like Kelly, it's all about fear again.Experience is theoretically safer. Do managers seriously sit there and worry before games about players failing? You might be right but it never crossed my mind once. And the other thing is this. How does King get experience if no-one picks him? Seriously, yes I'd play him, but I wouldn't mind King on the bench. It's a big responsibility starting a debutant in an away match and Kishishev, assuming he is match fit (which may not be the case) has played enough football to do a good job despite my reservations. But my point is that fans would sooner move people like Chambers and Newton out of position, or choose an out and out defensive midfielder, rather than go for a specialist young player who has a wide range of midfield talents and who can get into the opposition box on occasions. i think, were megson more established, if our league position wasn't so perilous, maybe he would go for such an option, but at this point in time i would imagine megson will play safe.... do we know whether ferriera can play in the centre, seeing as most people here have him pencilled in for the left wing.... ...who knows, but i'm excited to find out!
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